Hell and how it makes sense

[mythbuster1]

No, Hell was not necessary, but the possibility of Hell is a necessary consequence of free will. It could have happened that all angels and men were faithful to God and sin never came to be, but free will carried with it the possibility of sin, and with that possibility now actualized, the logical consequences of sin must follow.

 

[mythbuster1]

That said, it is also a common position that the flames of Hell burst forth from within the damned (i.e. as a manifestation of their sins, burning them from the inside-out).

 

[semper_catholicus]

If one goes to hell in the end, it is not because of God. That person put themselves in hell; they chose to reject God’s friendship.

 

[joyful]

it’s more about people that refuse to accept God’s love in their hearts/lives. hell is often described as an eternal fire because people that go to hell see God’s love( the fire) as a punishment and misery. God loves them but they dont understand that love, agape so to speak, so they are eternally tormented by it. unfortunately in our modern world a lot of people reject God

 

[mythbuster1]

The point is that for someone who is incompatible with Heaven, Heaven would be worse than Hell. The damned are in Hell because they finally said to God, “Not Thy will but mine be done!” They can’t go to Heaven, because in Heaven they would have to submit to God’s will, and their will will not abide that. To what could I compare one entering Heaven in a state of mortal sin? It would be like a man who was immortal but not impassible, standing at ground zero of a nuclear explosion. The light is so bright that though he closes his eyes, he is still blinded by it. The heat sears his flesh. The mighty wind throws him prostrate on the ground, though he wills to stand.

 

[mythbuster1]

I disagree. Even discounting sins of insurrection against God, for God, who cannot actually be harmed, could conceivably not demand an infinite restitution when the sin inevitably rebounds on the sinner, there is still the matter of the 5th Commandment. A man who leads his neighbor into sin robs said neighbor of Heaven, as does the murderer who kills his victim by surprise, such that he dies in his sins because he was robbed of the chance to repent (and even if the victim was in a state of grace, the intent to rob the victim’s salvation was still present). These crimes inflict infinite harm on one’s neighbor, and therefore demand infinite punishment. There is no alternative to this which satisfies justice, for the sinner bears responsibility for rendering himself unable to enter Heaven, so thoroughly that it would be unjust to admit him in spite of his sins, yet neither can it be denied that his loss of Heaven is the fault of the one who transgressed the 5th Commandment.

 

[tafan2]

Interesting explanation. Heaven being worse than hell for someone whose will is set against it.

 

[jcrichton]

How did I take that out of context?

You made a clear statement that even a sinner as Hitler cannot be burning in hell forever, at least not in your mind’s eye… so is that not saying that God, Who Created hell, somehow missed the point of Justice and Mercy which you fully uphold?

…or perhaps you are intimating that there’s no such thing as hell or eternal damnation… that, as has been put out there, there is a need for finite response to “finite” sin?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

not everyone will be counted among the Blessed, and fiery Gehenna awaits those who die in their sins.

What people continue to miss is that it is man’s calloused and stubborn heart that sets him on the path to perdition… and even when things are the dreariest they shun God’s Offer to Turn Back and Repent:

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains: Fall upon us; and to the hills: Cover us. 31 For if in the green wood they do these things, what shall be done in the dry? (St. Luke 23)
15 And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and tribunes, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of mountains: 16 And they say to the mountains and the rocks: Fall upon us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of their wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand? (Apocalypse [Revelation] 6)
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom became dark, and they gnawed their tongues for pain: 11 And they blasphemed the God of heaven, because of their pains and wounds, and did not penance for their works. (Apocalypse 16)

What I find totally confusing is those who purport to be in Fellowship with Christ yet seeking to place the blame of damnation on God (‘a good God would not…’ ‘there cannot be eternal punishment, that would be so devoid of Love and Mercy and Justice…’–they might not use the terms I’ve employed but the essence is the same: God not so understanding and merciful or it must mean that hell is just a teaching tool not a reality to be faced by even the wickedest of beings) rather than on the willful disobedient Creature that sins against God, self, and his/her neighbor.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

such that he dies in his sins because he was robbed of the chance to repent

…and yet, Jesus spoke to this:

37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark, 39 And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: one shall be taken, and one shall be left. 42 Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come. 43 But know this ye, that if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch, and would not suffer his house to be broken open. 44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come. 45 Who, thinkest thou, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath appointed over his family, to give them meat in season. 46 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing. 47 Amen I say to you, he shall place him over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord is long a coming: 49 And shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and shall eat and drink with drunkards: 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not, and at an hour that he knoweth not: 51 And shall separate him, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (St. Matthew 24)

While we are all sinners, it is through Fellowship with Jesus that we can remain “Alert”/“Ready.” The more we seek to excuse our sinful desires, the more we accommodate ourselves to “the body is weak,” and the more we put the blame on God’s “flawed” Justice and Mercy… the less we will accept our responsibilities and turn from sin and the rejection of God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[mythbuster1]

Context, please. The murderer cuts short the victim’s life without God’s authority

 

[2towers]

It is very annoying to have to give reading comprehension classes on a forum. You plucked this sentence out of a metaphor I was trying to use to explain divine justice to the OP.

I believe ALL of what the church says about heaven and hell. Once someone goes to hell that is it, forever. The OP is having difficulty understanding, as many do why it is necessary for people to spend an eternity in hell. As with any topics that are this complicated to explain, one often has to use metaphors to explain these things.

Metaphors are used in school every day to get across complex ideas.

met·a·phor
ˈmedəˌfôr,ˈmedəˌfər/Submit
noun
a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.

The OPs question It is difficult enough to explain without someone diving in and taking things out of context. People do this though, I don’t know why, but it is very tiring when someone takes one sentence out of a metaphor and runs away from it when if you read the entire post, you should understand that it is simply a metaphor being used to explain a difficult concept.

It is a shame when this happens, because the overall effect is that when something difficult like this comes up, people sometimes tend to not want to answer, to avoid getting into a word game discussion like this one, and the OP question goes unanswered.

https://www.google.com/search?q=usi...rome..69i57.3919j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[jcrichton]

My apologies; perhaps I read through your thread too speedily and missed that you were offering an elaborate alternative expression where you counter the demands for finite suffering in hell as a measure of God’s Justice, Mercy and Love.

Yet, you must agree that you committed a grammatical error which, to my eyes, derailed the metaphor:

God created us as eternal. That means the soul cannot be killed. How cruel it would be to say to people in Heaven "I know you chose heaven, but in a few hundred years here you have to fade into nothingness so the people in hell can end their suffering. I appreciate your adoration and prayers, but I just can’t let Hitler burn forever can I?

…when the closing statement is made the closing quotation mark is missing–to a pedestrian mind as mine the final thought was understood as your actual thought on Hitler, hell, and God’s Mercy, Justice, and Love.

Maran atha!

Angel

btw: what you met her for?

 

[2towers]

btw: what you met her for?

Umm, could you rephrase please?

 

[jcrichton]

…my failed attempt at levity: you were schooling on the grammatical meaning of met her for (metaphor).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[PJM]

Why would a God who loves us create a hell of eternal torture and create people knowing that they’ll go to hell? Why is there not just purgatory (for purification, instead of hell) and heaven? What bible verses talk about hell

Because as GOD He must

WHAT?!
God can be briefly defined as “all good things perfected”. By this I mean to share that God in order to BE –God can only Will “good things.”

So AM I saying “hell is good?”

In a sense “yes.” … the WHY goes back to the 1st book of the bible and GOD’S decision to Create humanity {exclusively} in His Ow Image. This was accomplished by gifting humanity alone in the Universe, with a mind, intellect @ freewill; making US similar to God as RATIONAL beings.

WHY did God do this?

Isa. 43: 7 & 21 “And every one that calleth upon my name, I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, and made him. & This people have I formed for myself, they shall shew forth my praise.”

Because in the entire Universe ONLY humanity is rational; it then becomes our grave obligation to know GOD {which can be done through the existence of the Universe}; & to freely choose to Love God, Obey God and to Serve God; OR TO FREELY CHOOSE TO HATE GOD. Those ARE the choices.

Actions HAVE consequences: because GOD gifts man with the ability and OFFERS the grace so that ALL can, could and should know Him as a free gift that CAN BE and often is refused.

So both heaven and hell are our OUR freewill choices. Our Life’s actions save us or condemn us. … God’s sense of PERFECT justice demands that WE make the decision, which He Confirms.

4Ezra.7
[36] Then the pit of torment shall appear, and opposite it shall be the place of rest; and the furnace of hell shall be disclosed, and opposite it the paradise of delight

Matt.10
[28] And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell

God Bless and guide your path,
Patrick