Hell cannot exist

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Tavoh said:
believe what you want
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I am not speaking of belief but clarifying my post – “We can know by revelation, that is by what God has revealed.” – that revelation is not referring to words written in a book.
 
What are you trying to prove to me? Your quoting words from a book written by man saying that there quoting god. It’s meaningless. You will continue believing that you know what god has in mind, and I will continue believing that I know nothing about god because I cannot, because his mind exceeds my mental capacity as does it yours. You are not correct, no religion is correct. Nobody can because we’re talking about GOD here
 
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Tavoh said:
What are you trying to prove to me? Your quoting words from a book written by man saying that there quoting god. It’s meaningless. You will continue believing that you know what god has in mind, and I will continue believing that I know nothing about god because I cannot, because his mind exceeds my mental capacity as does it yours.
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No proof, but I have hope that you will understand what I wrote that “We can know by revelation, that is by what God has revealed.”

You keep going back to the idea that this is about words from a book.
 
Ok, please clarify to me what it is you are taking about because I am apparently not understanding cause it seems like your using parables
 
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Tavoh said:
Ok, please clarify to me what it is you are taking about because I am apparently not understanding cause it seems like your using parables
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Besides Scripture and Tradition there is conscience and the action of God to help us be holy.
 
Conscience we do not have to understand infinite knowledge. believe what you want sir I’m done arguing this is pointless
 
@Tavoh : You say you still believe in God. That’s a good thing.

Also, there is no question that the Church and/or God - whichever way you look at it, in general throughout history, hasn’t always had a full complement of what might be deemed as great representatives. . . there have been (and still are today) some rather abysmally poor ones.

I also find some of your questions are quite interesting; they make me think (the monkey alphabet one made me lol though). But coming back to 2 things,according to what you’ve posted:
  1. That you still believe in God.
  2. That you don’t believe the Bible was inspired by God ; therefore not His Word. (I’m assuming you imply both Old and New Testaments in that particular opinion).
Those two things in themselves don’t so much suggest a conflict, but they do beg the question:

Precisely which God do you believe in then ? It would appear to be a God which no one else believes in . . . wouldn’t it ?

Not giving any credence to the Bible would rule out the God of Abraham, the God of Issac, the God of Jacob, so God the Father, God the Son Jesus , and God the Holy Spirit.

So who’s left ?
 
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We can argue about the Bible’s veracity another day, but right now, I’m going to give an argument for the existence of hell that does not use the Bible.
  1. People have souls that continue to exist after death. This has to be the case because (in very short – read this article for more detail) the soul is simple – the idea of “half a soul” doesn’t really make sense – and because reason cannot be explained naturally; otherwise, we’d have no reason to trust it.
  2. People have free will – they can choose to accept God or reject Him, just as they can choose to do anything else (or at least try to). Otherwise, nothing would be our fault because we were predestined to do it and what we believe to be “our choice” is just a convenient lie we tell ourselves to keep from going insane, and you might as well break moral rules because you’re predestined to do it anyway.
  3. God is good. This is not an attribute; this is a way of defining who God is, since the idea of “goodness” has to come from somewhere and it can’t be man, because then you would get absurdities like World War II being unjust because who the heck were we to force our morality on Nazi Germany?1 It has to come from above and beyond the universe, and who else but God?
If people have free will and can choose to reject God, then they can theoretically choose to reject God eternally. Since God is the source of all goodness, they are rejecting all goodness eternally and are therefore choosing the totality of evil. This we call hell.

So hell must exist.

Note that I have cited the Bible exactly zero times.

1 This was used, roughly, in the first couple of chapters of Mere Christianity, a book which everyone should read. It’s written in plain English and neatly summarizes the logic behind the Christian position.
 
Tavoh said:
I apologize for attempting to bring sense to you and wasting your time.
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Oh… you came here to proselytize us, not to ask a question and enter into dialogue?

Yes, I can see how that would be frustrating, then, if no one buys your arguments. 🤷‍♂️
 
Tavoh said:
why are you speaking about god like you know him personally?
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Because I talk to him daily, usually at night.
Tavoh said:
How do you know the choices that he made for us and his purpose for making us? For something that a book written by man told you?
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I don’t know his plans. But that is alright because he let me choose what I do with my life. Not the book, the Church. The Book came from the Church almost 400 years later. Isn’t it nice to have all that teaching, wisdom consolidated in book form? God speaks through people, especially his designated prophets. Did you find anything wrong with that process?

I know his purpose. But I don’t know whether I can make it. So I try hard to make it rather than finding excuses for laziness or evil.
Tavoh said:
He simply knows what is going to happen, a loving God would not create a soul to end up in hell.
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Are you simply diverting your responsibility to live life appropriately from yourself to someone else? You are just asking the problem of evil in another form: he shouldn’t create evil people, he should create people who can do good only. I already answered you God didn’t intend to create robots.

Whether the response meets your approval or not is not important. The important thing is this: you exist. What are you going to do about it? Your freewill actions determine your future consequences, that is , if you believe there are future consequences. There is no value add to play with the blame game of what God should or should not do. Do you think that will justify the way you live your life? You only need to justify to God bottom line.
 
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Hell better exist. Because if it doesn’t then the Church has to figure out and answer why the world sucks so hard and why God enjoys doing nothing to stop natural disasters or stop innocent children or defenseless people, or defenseless animals from being harmed, and why there is no ultimate justice.
 
superblue said:
Hell better exist. Because if it doesn’t then the Church has to figure out and answer why the world sucks so hard and why God enjoys doing nothing to stop natural disasters or stop innocent children or defenseless people, or defenseless animals from being harmed, and why there is no ultimate justice.
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Of the three kinds of evil – physical, moral, and metaphysical. Catholic Encylopedia:
Christian philosophy has, like the Hebrew, uniformly attributed moral and physical evil to the action of created free will. Man has himself brought about the evil from which he suffers by transgressing the law of God, on obedience to which his happiness depended.
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Sharpe, A. (1909). Evil. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm
 
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Tavoh said:
HELL CANNOT EXIST.
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That’s very unfortunate you arrived at this fallacious conclusion. St Faustina said that the majority of people in hell didn’t believe in it’s existence.

“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)

More here - http://www.divinemercysunday.com/vision.htm

As Fulton J Sheen would say, the logic is very simple, if there is no hell, there is no heaven, if there is no hell or heaven, there is no sin, and if there is no sin there is no right or wrong, wrong is now right and right is now wrong.

As is also perfectly illustrated with issues such as abortion, which Clinton and others call a ‘human right’ they are so wicked and deluded they think brutally murdering a child in their mothers womb on mass is a ‘human right’

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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if hell does not exist, there was nothing from which Jesus needed to save us. believing than makes the Gospel of Jesus Christ a gigantic hoax.

if you are going to be intellectually honest and are convinced that hell does not exist, you should be telling everyone that Jesus was nothing but a liar and a con man.

on the other hand, i think that maybe you have just not thought all of this through and you still actually do believe Jesus is your Savior and the Savior of the world. i certainly hope and pray that this is the case.
 
HELL CANNOT EXIST

A better argument would be that Hell should not exist, because no rational being would choose eternal separation from God over eternal union with God.

Sadly, your own experience shows that we often make decisions that are not really in our best interest. Can I explain how angels without human passions would make a prideful decision choosing not to serve a perfect, all-loving God when they were aware of the consequences? No.

Although I have never met you, I cannot miss the anger in your argument that creation is not aligned the way you would have it. I could only guess the reasons for your anger, and I hope and pray that you will overcome it and be open to Truth. It must be frustrating to live in a world where you cannot have gratitude to the one who has given us all so much that is so good.
 
Hell is very consistent with life, if God created suffering for the innocents why wouldn’t he make the “sinner” suffer?
 
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