Hell cannot truly be the absence of God

[JKirkLVNV]

Hmmm. With all due respect I think you are putting limits on God that only belong to Vampires. Hell and our hearts are different places. Hell was created by God as a place where His judgement takes place. Hell is His wrath being poured out. God cannot not be somewhere, the human heart, meaning our soul, is not a “place”. Hell is a place or at least the lake of fire with be. God is omnipresent wihtout exception. So He must be there too. Only His actions there are different. He is there in judgement and wrath.

Mel

Are we sure God CREATED hell? Isn’t it possible that it sprang into being by our own rebellion? Why cannot God not be somewhere (by an act of His Own Volition or Determination)?

 

[Melchior]

Are we sure God CREATED hell? Isn’t it possible that it sprang into being by our own rebellion? Why cannot God not be somewhere (by an act of His Own Volition or Determination)?

Because the Christian faith teaches that God is omnipresent. God judges people and condemns them to Hell based on their rejection of Him. It only makes sense that He created the place of punishment. In fact scripture says the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. Who prepared it?

Mel

 

[masterjedi747]

Hell was created by God as a place where His judgement takes place. Hell is His wrath being poured out.

I don’t know…when you say that “Hell is God’s wrath being poured out”, it almost sounds like God is actively punishing the people there throughout all eternity. Now, that might be true to a certain extent, but I don’t think it really gets at the heart of what Hell is. And it sounds somewhat malicious. I think the people in Hell are suffering primarily as the result of their choice to reject God…it’s less of God punishing them, and more the fact that their suffering in simply the inherent consequence of their decision to reject Him. By cutting themselves off from Him (which He doesn’t want them to do), they are really the ones hurting themselves.

God is omnipresent wihtout exception. So He must be there too. Only His actions there are different. He is there in judgement and wrath.

We say that God is omnipresent because He is existence itself, and therefore anything that exists is participating in His existence. So He is everywhere (in that sense) by definition, and if He is not there, then it cannot exist. And as I understand it, this is the only way that God is present in Hell, because it’s the greatest possible degree of separation from Him that can occur without annihilation. I really don’t know about the “in judgement and wrath” part, though, or if it’s even important. It almost sounds more poetic than philosophical, anyway. I don’t know. Maybe.

 

[masterjedi747]

Are we sure God CREATED hell? Isn’t it possible that it sprang into being by our own rebellion?

I would think that’s exactly how it happened. If Hell is primarily a lack, then it wouldn’t really make any sense for it to be created (in the strictest sense) anyway. And if no one had rebelled against God, then there would be no Hell, because there would be absolutely no reason for it. But you can’t forget that, insofar as Hell exists (certainly the souls in that state of existence, and perhaps even as a physical location), God is there. But only that much, no more.

Why cannot God not be somewhere…?

He can not be somewhere, but only to a certain extent. Scroll up to my post where I mentioned the different ways that God can be or not be present. The fact is simply that, if it exists, then He is there insofar as it is participating in His existence.

In fact scripture says the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. Who prepared it?

You have to be careful with stuff like that…just how literal do you think that’s supposed to be taken? A lake of fire might make literal sense if the devil and his fallen angels had physical bodies…but they don’t. Just be careful you don’t fall off the deep end and lose sight of the fact that sometimes Scripture can be allegorical or poetic in order to help us understand a deeper truth, or an aspect of a deeper philosophical truth.

 

[Sixtus]

J Kirk LVNV

Are we sure God CREATED hell? Isn’t it possible that it sprang into being by our own rebellion

It seems most logical to me that God did not create hell.

What sort of God would give His only son, His ONLY son, all He possessed and loved, for us the lowest of intelligent beings? His beloved. My God what have I done to thee. I am sorry, truely sorry.

Is it conceivable that such a God would create a state called hell? I think not! Perhaps we have created it

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Because the Christian faith teaches that God is omnipresent. God judges people and condemns them to Hell based on their rejection of Him. It only makes sense that He created the place of punishment. In fact scripture says the lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his fallen angels. Who prepared it?

Mel

Possibly, it was US that prepared it. In the act of choosing to NOT be with God, there must be a place where God is not. Omniscence may well fall within God’s sovereign will, ie., there may be a place (hell) where He wills not to be.

 

[dbacks5439]

This is exactly what I’ve been saying earlier. If you don’t allow God into your life, He can’t force Himself in. It would be a violation of Free Will. Same with Hell, those who are there refuse to have anything to do with Him, therefore, He respects that decision and leaves them alone.

 

[levi86]

The connotations of “fire” that are associated with hell would seem to indicate that God is VERY present in hell. Numerous times in scripture God is associated with fire, why would such a similarity be drawn if God was not present in hell?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The connotations of “fire” that are associated with hell would seem to indicate that God is VERY present in hell. Numerous times in scripture God is associated with fire, why would such a similarity be drawn if God was not present in hell?

Why does it necessarily follow that fire=God in the imagery of hell? We get the image of a fiery hell from Jesus, who called it “Gehena,” the name of a dump outside of Jerusalem where the Jews burned their trash.

I think it’s very possible for God to will to withdraw His Presence. He’s alluded to have done so in the OT due to Israel’s disobedience.

 

[Spirithound]

Frank Sheed says in Theology for Beginners that the way that a spirit “is” in a place is by it acting on the are in question. God, being Infinite Spirit, “is” everywhere because He is constantly acting on everything to keep it into existence. Therefore, God “is” in hell in that He is constantly acting upon it to keep it in existence. So, God “is” in heaven, in that He is constantly acting upon it to keep it in existence, and in addition, it is a place where holy souls are in perfect union with Him, thus indicating that He is in heaven in an additional way than the way that He is in hell.