Hell default condition for mankind?

[Maxirad]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

 

[Catholic1954]

No. God created us to live forever with him in heaven.

 

[Della]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

It’s not that simple. The CCC tells us that when it talks about those who seek for God using their own lights and the possibility of salvation for them–through Christ’s redemptive death and resurrection. We were created good, but original sin has wounded us, not made us totally depraved, as some would have it. Jesus came to restore the good, so all who seek the good are doing as he commanded us to do. Each person’s salvation is possible–only God knows who has accepted his gifts of grace to be saved, so we leave that in his hands.

 

[Vico]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

(Greek, apokatastasis; Latin, restitutio in pristinum statum, restoration to the original condition).
A name given in the history of theology to the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls. … the doctrine of the apokatastasis was definitely abandoned. St. Augustine protests more strongly than any other writer against an error so contrary to the doctrine of the necessity of grace.
newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm

The Catechism of the Catholic Church
1035
“The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs”

 

[adamhovey1988]

Who told you that?

 

[Maxirad]

Who told you that?

Well, adamhovey1988, I have been reading a book by a certain apologist whom Dave Armstrong considers a “radical Catholic reactionary.” However, the apologist in question has a considerable following.

 

[edwest2]

It’s not that simple. The CCC tells us that when it talks about those who seek for God using their own lights and the possibility of salvation for them–through Christ’s redemptive death and resurrection. We were created good, but original sin has wounded us, not made us totally depraved, as some would have it. Jesus came to restore the good, so all who seek the good are doing as he commanded us to do. Each person’s salvation is possible–only God knows who has accepted his gifts of grace to be saved, so we leave that in his hands.

Amen.

Ed

 

[o_mlly]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

The default condition for mankind is a fallen human nature with a Creator who wills all mankind to come to salvation. The default position for the Creator is that all things are possible for Him.

 

[e_c]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

After the Fall, yes. Without healing grace, nobody will remain long free of grave actual sin. And without sanctifying grace infusing faith, hope, and charity, nothing can be done in the right supernatural mode or for the right supernatural reasons anyway, so even avoiding all positive actual sin leaves one without meriting eternal beatitude.

But on the other hand, these graces are universally offered. Soooooo… it’s always our fault.

 

[Wesrock]

We were made for God, but through sin fell and merit Hell. Only God can save us from that fate.

 

[Della]

Well, adamhovey1988, I have been reading a book by a certain apologist whom Dave Armstrong considers a “radical Catholic reactionary.” However, the apologist in question has a considerable following.

With all due respect to Dave Armstrong and the radical Catholic reactionary–no matter how large a following any one person might have, lay or cleric, s/he does not speak for the Church in matters of faith and morals. The Magisterium has that right and responsibility, no one else.

Whenever an idea tickles our ears or else makes us unduly afraid, that idea is generally false. We love to either hear that we’re fine as we are or that we are so bad God can’t possibly love us. Both have their basis in pride not in humility. Don’t listen to anyone but the Church in matters of doctrine–read the Catechism not online charmers. In that way you cannot go wrong.

 

[pianistclare]

With all due respect to Dave Armstrong and the radical Catholic reactionary–no matter how large a following any one person might have, lay or cleric, s/he does not speak for the Church in matters of faith and morals. The Magisterium has that right and responsibility, no one else.

Whenever an idea tickles our ears or else makes us unduly afraid, that idea is generally false. We love to either hear that we’re fine as we are or that we are so bad God can’t possibly love us. Both have their basis in pride not in humility. Don’t listen to anyone but the Church in matters of doctrine–read the Catechism not online charmers. In that way you cannot go wrong.

This^^. We were created to live in eternity with the Lord.
It’s up to us to see that we stay on the path, and not find ourselves in hell.

 

[RosyAnne]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

One is born with the stain of original sin. Yes, the default is being born without sanctifying grace…however…God provides each human being the opportunity to reach heaven.

Unless a man is reborn of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (Jn 3:5)

From “The Catholic Catechism” by John A. Hardon, S.J.
(pg 510)

Right to Heaven.

Since baptism confers the life of grace in the soul, it carries the promise of salvation. In the new liturgy, when the person has been baptized, he is clothed with a white garment. The celebrant then says: “You have become a new creation, and have clothed yourself in Christ. See in this white garment the outward sign of your Christian dignity. With your family and friends to help you by word and example, bring that dignity unstained into the everlasting life of heaven.” The Church’s commentators on the Gospels have always seen in the parable of the wedding garment the symbol of sanctifying grace received at baptism, without which no one is admitted to the banquet of the heavenly kingdom.

The salvation of souls is serious business. It’s not something we can accomplish on our own, it’s at God’s invitation and at God’s mercy.

The Parable of the Wedding Banquet

Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

“But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

But then…what about the babies and young children who didn’t have a chance to be baptized? Again, from Fr. John Hardon’s Catechism:

A more delicate question is the lot of those children who die without receiving baptism. According to God’s universal salvific will, we believe that somehow he gives all persons the opportunity of reaching heaven. There is such a thing as baptism of desire, defined by the Council of Trent, but this assumes sufficient mental maturity to make an act of faith and love of God.

We must, however, say with the Church that “There are people who are in ignorance of Christ’s Gospel and of his Church through no fault of their own, and who search for God in sincerity of heart; they attempt to put into practice the recognition of his will that they have reached through the dictate of conscience. They do so under the influence of divine grace; they can attain everlasting salvation.” By implication, their children who die before the age of reason can also be saved.

Saying this does not deny what the Church also teaches through two ecumenical councils, that even those who die with only original sin on their souls cannot reach the beatific vision. There is also the condemnation of the Jansenists, as teaching something “false, rash, and injurious to Catholic education,” who claimed it was a Pelagian fable to hold that there is a place “which the faithful generally designate by the name of the limbo of children,” for the souls of those who depart this life with the sole guilt of original sin. St. Thomas taught that limbo is a place of perfect natural happiness, but minus the supernatural vision of God to which, of course, no creature has a natural right.

God is infinitely merciful…but He is also perfectly just. The stain of original sin must be washed away, atoned for, but as we read above, He provides.

 

[ericc]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

Errr, no. Only if you reject heaven you may find yourself there.

 

[Vico]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

Also, from Catechism:
389 The doctrine of original sin is, so to speak, the “reverse side” of the Good News that Jesus is the Saviour of all men, that all need salvation and that salvation is offered to all through Christ. the Church, which has the mind of Christ,263 knows very well that we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ.

1250: … the Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.

 

[BobCatholic]

Is it true that Hell is the default condition for mankind?

To go to hell, just exist.

To go to heaven, get the grace of God, and endure horrific suffering throughout life to keep it.

It is easy to go to hell, horrendously difficult to get into heaven.

 

[Della]

To go to hell, just exist.

To go to heaven, get the grace of God, and endure horrific suffering throughout life to keep it.

It is easy to go to hell, horrendously difficult to get into heaven.

Poor Bob–still singing the same sad song. Get a grip on your pessimism, Bob old boy. Life’s not as bad as you paint it. We only suffer if we think of unpleasant things as difficulties to be overcome instead of opportunities for prayer, growth, and giving back to God. God is good and merciful. Get used to the idea for your own sake more than anyone else’s.

 

[BobCatholic]

Poor Bob–still singing the same sad song. Get a grip on your pessimism, Bob old boy. Life’s not as bad as you paint it. We only suffer if we think of unpleasant things as difficulties to be overcome instead of opportunities for prayer, growth, and giving back to God. God is good and merciful. Get used to the idea for your own sake more than anyone else’s.

Everyone has a cross to carry. I have an imperfection where I cannot carry a cross with a smile on my face. I just can’t do it. I’m not a masochist.

 

[Della]

Everyone has a cross to carry. I have an imperfection where I cannot carry a cross with a smile on my face. I just can’t do it. I’m not a masochist.

I’m sorry for you, Bob, I truly am. I could list all the crosses I’ve had to bear and still have to bear, but no one wants to hear it anymore than they want to hear about my swollen left foot or what I’m allergic to.

Joy comes from within not from our circumstances. That’s the plain truth of the matter. Heaven is our true home, Bob–eternity with Christ–who is “our portion and our cup.” If that isn’t reason enough to find inner peace and joy, I don’t know what will do it for you.

 

[Wesrock]

I disagree with Bob that Heaven is “horrendously difficult,” but I think it is important to stress that the road to God isn’t available apart from God reaching out to us. Left to our own devices, hell sort of is just the default for us in our fallen nature, even if we were made for Heaven. Maybe that Hell is not fire and brimstone for all, but certainly an existence without the beatific vision. That hell is the default path we are on apart from God seems to be a natural conclusion from the Church’s teaching on free will, predestination, and knowing that double predestination is not true.