Hell exists BECAUSE God loves us!

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Then stop squirming here.

If you get banned, it won’t be because you are Christ-like.
I am not Christ-like (at least not any more than every human being is), but if I got banned, it would be beacsue people misunderstood me, which is what happened to Jesus.
Just like the people in the 1st century didn’t feel like Jesus did a very decent job at it.
And not only the people in the 1st century.
What can I say? If you’re confronted with teachings and you reject the truth…that’s your own free will. 🤷
There are lots of teachings you and I both reject, based on reason, I hope.🤷
 
A lot, really a lot, of great scientist of the past were believers (also faithful), starting from Galileo, then Newton, then Mendel etc. And now there’s also a lot of believers among them.
those scientists are not known for being religious. so how do you know they lived by faith?
Moreover, if we speak of reason, a lot of philosophers were, and are, believers (for example, in the past, Saint Thomas; in the XX century Martin Buber, Kirkegaard …).
Those are philosophers of religion - theologians. Thats the kind of reason where religion & faith excels.

And when a theologian does wander beyond the limits of religious dictate, this happens…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno#Imprisonment.2C_trial_and_execution.2C_1592.E2.80.931600
Reason, as almost any function of our mind, needs some kind of faith. This is one more reason to do not put faith and reason in opposition.
it does. but too much faith does limit reason.
 
And when a theologian does wander beyond the limits of religious dictate, this happens…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno#Imprisonment.2C_trial_and_execution.2C_1592.E2.80.931600

it does. but too much faith does limit reason.
Not all theology begins with human reason. A reasonable understanding of faith has a clear idea of where nature leaves off and revelation begins. An irrational notion of reason is that human reason alone has all possible truth accessible to it. Where is the unlimited capacity of reason established by reason?

Bruno had a problem seeing where the limits of reason were and therefore could not accept that some truths have to come via revelation or not be grasped at all.

His trial and execution were not about his proposals regarding natural science, but his insistence that he could reason to and correct supernatural revelation by his own limited means.

From your article:

*Frances Yates rejects what she describes as the “legend that Bruno was prosecuted as a philosophical thinker, was burned for his daring views on innumerable worlds or on the movement of the earth.” Yates however writes that “the Church was… perfectly within its rights if it included philosophical points in its condemnation of Bruno’s heresies” because “the philosophical points were quite inseparable from the heresies.”[35]

According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, “in 1600 there was no official Catholic position on the Copernican system, and it was certainly not a heresy. When …] Bruno …] was burned at the stake as a heretic, it had nothing to do with his writings in support of Copernican cosmology.”[36]

Similarly, the Catholic Encyclopedia (1908) asserts that “Bruno was not condemned for his defence of the Copernican system of astronomy, nor for his doctrine of the plurality of inhabited worlds, but for his theological errors, among which were the following: that Christ was not God but merely an unusually skillful magician, that the Holy Ghost is the soul of the world, that the Devil will be saved, etc.”[37]
*

Whether his beliefs warranted execution is an open question and one that needs to take into account the entire situation of the time, but the fact that he made grave errors about the nature of faith and revelation can be demonstrated from his writings and actions. He was a heretic. That is clear.
 
No, Alberto, reason needs some axioms to support its use. That’s not the same as ‘faith’.
Reason does not need a pre-set limitation. It is most probably so that reason is going to meet its limitations, but that’s another matter.
Reason has a pre-set limitation: its accepted premises. The acceptance of those premises is indistinguishable from faith. Faith in your own ability to distinguish plausible from implausible premises, over and (possibly) against faith in God to reveal truth.
 
No, Alberto, reason needs some axioms to support its use. That’s not the same as ‘faith’.
Reason does not need a pre-set limitation. It is most probably so that reason is going to meet its limitations, but that’s another matter.
Reason works with time, and logic and other things (for example, observations mediated by senses); time and logics are relative, and obviously, the reason also is relative, or also one must make of it a God, an absolute and so it is necessary having faith in it. The axioms (=a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true) are things that depends by assumptions believed useful, the self-evidence isn’t at the origin of any good reasoning.
it does. but too much faith does limit reason.
I subscribe.
those scientists are not known for being religious. so how do you know they lived by faith?
Fundamentalists are a very, very particular kind of faithful, Galileo never abjured to his Christianity, Newton was clearly convinced that God exists. Mendel was a religious in the real sense: “Gregor Johann Mendel (July 20, 1822[1] – January 6, 1884) was a German-speaking Silesian scientist and Augustinian friar who gained posthumous fame as the founder of the new science of genetics”, from Wikipedia.
Those are philosophers of religion - theologians
you say they were only philosophers of religion, they were also philosophers as Kant, who has also his way of being a believer. And philosophers of religion aren’t necessarily theologian. If one could say: but when they talk of God they are not reasoning, he’d make it too simple (and in some way using a sophistic argument)…
 
Reason has a pre-set limitation: its accepted premises. The acceptance of those premises is indistinguishable from faith. Faith in your own ability to distinguish plausible from implausible premises, over and (possibly) against faith in God to reveal truth.
No, that is not true. The accepted premises are the result of reason, not a pre-set limitation. The onlo pre-set limitation for reason is certain axioms without which reasoning is impossible. But we should actually only accept a minimal set of axioms. You could call that ‘faith’ if you want, but it is something quite different from the axioms accepted when you put religious faith first.
Moreover, faith in God to reveal truth also presupposes faith in your own ability to discern this truth from other claims. So, again, reason necessarily comes first.
 
Reason works with time, and logic and other things (for example, observations mediated by senses); time and logics are relative, and obviously,
Reason does not work with time. Reason works with logic and logic is not relative.
 
No, Alberto, reason needs some axioms to support its use. That’s not the same as ‘faith’.
Reason does not need a pre-set limitation. It is most probably so that reason is going to meet its limitations, but that’s another matter.
Indeed.

Using only reason is what limits one’s ability to apprehend the truth.

As Pascal said:
2 errors: to exclude reason
And to exclude all but reason.
 
Reason does not work with time. Reason works with logic and logic is not relative.
As I explained some posts ago time is relative, and also Logics, being a product of the relative life of men and of their minds and of every thing they make (that are relative), and because of time. Reason, working, uses time, it cannot work without time. Or one can consider reason absolute and thus having faith in reason.
 
The church has emphasized for CENTURIES that the Jews murdered Jesus. That is as “official” as it can be. The Vatican has even expressed an apology for treating the Jews as they did… which is nice, but too little, too late.
incorrect :mad: it was the result of a few sinners repeating a lie too often. 👍

a few people because of blindness, background, or culture/ignorance did this a few repented but sadly not all.

in an eras were violance was common because of “sin” or ignorance this was common it only happens in these days unless one wants to be deceived.

Shalom
God Bless

source - the medieval library by james westfall thompson 1939 printing
 
As I explained some posts ago time is relative, and also Logics, being a product of the relative life of men and of their minds and of every thing they make (that are relative), and because of time. Reason, working, uses time, it cannot work without time. Or one can consider reason absolute and thus having faith in reason.
I am glad to see you acknowledge that God, being timeless, cannot reason.
 
Indeed.

Using only reason is what limits one’s ability to apprehend the truth.

As Pascal said:
2 errors: to exclude reason
And to exclude all but reason.
“Apprehending” is done by reason. So, reason is the only way to “apprehend” something.
 
I am glad to see you acknowledge that God, being timeless, cannot reason.
Have I said that God is timeless?
If we limit ourselves to this world, space, and time, we can say only that reason is product of men; thus is relative. I repeat, if we think reason is absolute, we consider reason as God. Thus, we must have faith in this absolute reality called reason.
 
I am glad to see you acknowledge that God, being timeless, cannot reason.
This is true. God cannot reason, because that means entertaining a position and then apprehending another position.

Rather, God is Reason.
 
“Apprehending” is done by reason. So, reason is the only way to “apprehend” something.
Think of this analogy, belorg.

Immunity is achieved through vaccinations.
So vaccinations are the only way to achieve immunity

says the person who is truly logically inept.

Remember, by your reasoning would have to discount intravenous immnoglobulins, passive immunity, natural immunity…

See?
 
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