Hell

[Tom_Baum]

“If I go to sheol, You are there”.

Seems to me that the bible has said that there is nowhere that we can go that God Is not there, any thoughts on what has been written concerning the Omnipresence of God?

 

[mikekle]

Hell is definitely real. It exists as the exact opposite to Heaven. In Heaven you are in close union with God; however, in Hell you’re as far as possible from God. Everything has an opposite or a most different form. Hell is no exception.

Where did Hell come from though? According to Fr. Amorth’s books, demons claim that God did not create Hell for them but rather they created it for themselves. However, I find this highly unlikely as God must create everything and demons are incredible liars.

Instead, I have suspected that Hell may predate the existence of both man and angels. Actually, it predates the very creation of our universe by the “Big-bang”. Like Heaven which is full of every creature that loves God, Hell contains every creature that rebelled against God. This means demons and other creatures from other universes that are completely foreign to us are probably placed in the same area.

Interesting, I have never heard the theory that satan and the demons created hell for themselves. I believe the bible just said after the fall, God just threw them out of heaven, didnt say WHERE he sent them.

I do find it odd though, that satan and the other angels could commit such a crime against God and ONLY be kicked out of heaven, it is actually strange to me that God did not just turn them all to dust right then and there!

 

[BHB65]

I guess for some people, Catholic and Protestants, it’s much easier to disbelieve in Hell rather than face the fact that their actions and non-actions will send them there. Personally, I am terrified of the possibility, and it doesn’t matter what it’s like - I don’t want any part of Hell - especially the thought of the absence of God; that scares me the most.

 

[MacQ]

Remember, there are people that just want to pick and choose what they want to believe. There’s really no way of stopping people from doing that especially if they don’t believe in the authority of the Catholic Church. And the media is pretty good at finding ways to discredit the Church, which causes distrust in many people.

And of course, there are people that believe in God’s infinite mercy to the extent that they don’t believe He would ever send anyone to hell.

Good answer:thumbsup:

 

[mikekle]

Good answer:thumbsup:

If Gods mercy was infinite, then what about the person who ends up in hell and calls out to God for forgiveness? Are they forgiven or left in hell? If his mercy and forgiveness are ONLY available to us while we are alive…THAT IS FAR FROM BEING INFINITE AND ETERNAL.

 

[MacQ]

Well, I don’t think that God’s mercy is confined to our earthly life. I believe that is consistent with Catholic belief…otherwise we wouldn’t pray for the dead.
I believe in Hell, but hope that it is empty.

 

[MacQ]

It’s a real physical place at the core of the earth. Purgatory is not too far from it.

You know this how?
Seems a tad literal to me.

 

[HJ3822]

Why do some Christians not believe that hell is not a real place. Even in our Catholic church we have Catholics that don’t believe hell is a real place. The bible clearly describes hell as a real place - not to mention all the private revelation yet some people refuse to believe and want to come up with their own concept of hell. Jesus referred to hell as a place. When did this start happening and how can people contradict the bible. Does the church still believe hell to be a real place?I don’t think its changed, Is this a liberal view?

I think there is a debate in the Catholic community on whether Hell is a place of eternal torment or an extremely undesirable post-mortem state.

 

[davidv]

If Gods mercy was infinite, then what about the person who ends up in hell and calls out to God for forgiveness? Are they forgiven or left in hell? If his mercy and forgiveness are ONLY available to us while we are alive…THAT IS FAR FROM BEING INFINITE AND ETERNAL.

God’s mercy is perfect, not infinite. He is also perfectly just.

Why do you think a person was has rejected God in this life would change their mind, if they could (which I don’t believe they can) in the next?

 

[MacQ]

God’s mercy is perfect, not infinite. He is also perfectly just.

Why do you think a person was has rejected God in this life would change their mind, if they could (which I don’t believe they can) in the next?

Why do you think they wouldn’t?

And everything else about God is infinite…why not His mercy?

 

[MacQ]

If Gods mercy was infinite, then what about the person who ends up in hell and calls out to God for forgiveness? Are they forgiven or left in hell? If his mercy and forgiveness are ONLY available to us while we are alive…THAT IS FAR FROM BEING INFINITE AND ETERNAL.

Who said God’s mercy was only available to us when we’re alive? Catholics certainly don’t believe that (note that we pray for the dead and we believe in purgatory!). I certainly don’t think that. I believe God’s mercy and forgiveness to be infinite, if in fact our souls are.

 

[Cromwell4]

MacQ, your idea of eternity seems to be time-based.

No. Time stops once we leave the physical world. There is only ‘now’ So the sinner in Hell cannot repent just as the devils cannot repent.
Time & Space as we know them, no longer exist. This is why we must repent while on the physical plan. Eternity like Infinity is impossible for the human mind to grasp. It does not mean eons & eons without end ( that is time-based). All one can say is that Eternity is a perpetual ‘now’.

 

[po18guy]

Has no one a catechism? I know that posting paragraphs from the catechism is a sure path to being ignored, but this is what the Church actually believes and teaches. If anyone wants to look it up, paragraphs 1033-1037 cover it nicely. A warning: Reading actual Church teaching will take 2 minutes away from argumentation.

As well, here is an interview with an exorcist Priest that is quite illuminating. We are well served to take note of Mary’s role in the exercise of power over evil: regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

 

[MacQ]

MacQ, your idea of eternity seems to be time-based.

No. Time stops once we leave the physical world. There is only ‘now’ So the sinner in Hell cannot repent just as the devils cannot repent.
Time & Space as we know them, no longer exist. This is why we must repent while on the physical plan. Eternity like Infinity is impossible for the human mind to grasp. It does not mean eons & eons without end ( that is time-based). All one can say is that Eternity is a perpetual ‘now’.

I didn’t actually say anything about “eternity”. I referred to the word “infinite”, which I believe we trust God’s mercy to be.
Or time for that matter. I’m not sure how you “know” that “time stops” when you die. I believe that to be wholly unknowable.

There are, you are no doubt aware, circumstances that the Church recognizes where a person may die without having ‘come to Jesus’ or repented… and those the Church leaves to God’s judgement alone (never ours).

That Hell may be empty is consistent with Catholicism. I hope it is!

 

[davidv]

Why do you think they wouldn’t?

Because their will is set against God. And the time of God’s infinite mercy is ended and God’s justice will be satisfied.

And everything else about God is infinite…why not His mercy?

 

[MacQ]

Because their will is set against God. And the time of God’s infinite mercy is ended and God’s justice will be satisfied.

Well, I think ‘God’s infinite mercy’ IS indeed infinite…meaning that it doesn’t end.

 

[thistle]

I didn’t actually say anything about “eternity”. I referred to the word “infinite”, which I believe we trust God’s mercy to be.
Or time for that matter. I’m not sure how you “know” that “time stops” when you die. I believe that to be wholly unknowable.

There are, you are no doubt aware, circumstances that the Church recognizes where a person may die without having ‘come to Jesus’ or repented… and those the Church leaves to God’s judgement alone (never ours).

That Hell may be empty is consistent with Catholicism. I hope it is!

The Church teaching (which has the full authority of God behind it) clearly states that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell to suffer there forever.

Only a very naive person could think that everyone in history who has died has died in a state of grace and that Hell might be empty!

 

[MacQ]

The Church teaching (which has the full authority of God behind it) clearly states that anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell to suffer there forever.

Only a very naive person could think that everyone in history who has died has died in a state of grace and that Hell might be empty!

Actually, I reckon that very few die in a state of grace.
Are you implying that anyone who doesn’t goes to Hell?
What’s purgatory for then? Why bother to pray for the dead then?

The Church also teaches that WE cannot know exactly what state a person was in at the moment of death, and that only God knows and judges that. Presumably this implies that God is around after our death, and so is our soul.

 

[TRH1292]

Actually, I reckon that very few die in a state of grace.
Are you implying that anyone who doesn’t goes to Hell?
What’s purgatory for then? Why bother to pray for the dead then?

The Church also teaches that WE cannot know exactly what state a person was in at the moment of death, and that only God knows and judges that. Presumably this implies that God is around after our death, and so is our soul.

Yes, we cannot know the state of a persons soul when they die. I can not know if John Smith is in a state of Grace or a State of Mortal Sin. But, I do know that if John Smith dies in a state of Mortal Sin, that is, not in a state of Grace, he will descend into Hell.

Purgatory is for those who die in a state of grace, in God’s friendship, but are not perfectly purified.

Catholicism 101.

 

[TK421]

Within our free will there is a choice to be made which, by its nature, is polemic.

The souls in Hell feel remorse in the sense of “I want to be in Heaven!” but not in the sense of repentance. This is relevant because repentance is not something which is capable of being brought about via compulsion. In their misery, the souls in Hell will struggle forever to make themselves have love, but they will never do so, else they would not be in Hell to begin with. God cannot error in judgement.

It is not correct to look at Judgement as an arbitrary point where a soul can supposedly repent but it “doesn’t count”, and therefore you have souls in Hell that are genuinely contrite and yet, because they crossed a magical barrier after bodily death, God suddenly isn’t interested anymore. Judgement is the infallible discernment of a soul. Evil is what they are. Their cries for mercy are meaningless, and it indeed, it is fitting that a wicked person should have the insolence to do such a thing, rather than be silent.