Hell

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friardchips said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=26878691

*‘1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he **“will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,”*613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”**614’
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This valley was known as a place of fiery torture and sacrifices to honor pagan gods. When King Josiah burned
down the evil altars, the location remained a site for burning pagan artifacts as the country was purged of idolatry.
“
converted by Web2PDFConvert.com
As time went on and there were no more idols to burn, some accounts suggest the people of Jerusalem began
dumping and burning their trash in the valley.
Archaeological evidence suggest the valley was a sewage dump during the time of Jesus, but regardless of its
literal usage, we know with certainty that the place itself was historically associated with death and fire. When
Jesus refers to Gehenna as “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” in Mark 9, he is making a
clear connection to the valley’s historic past, using the language of Isaiah 66:
And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat
them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all
mankind.
When we look at Israel’s history, we see times when Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a
dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so
much trash, thrown out from the besieged city’s walls, that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.
 
There is some question, however, whether human bodies were ever in fact burnt at Hinnom.

ICXC NIKA
 
This worries me the most:

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

I would argue that basically everyone, outside of a few that suffer from horrible illness for many years, that lives in the US is basically out, no matter how “good” they are.
 
friardchips said:
I am eating this virtual popcorn only because it looks so nice. 🍿
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  • “The road to Hell is paved with virtual popcorn.”
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( * Didn’t Orville Redenbacher say that ?)

_______________________________________-

On a serious note: Hell exists.

Several definitions from Fr. John Hardon S.J.'s Modern Catholic Dictionary:
HELL.
The place and state of eternal punishment for the fallen angels and human beings who die deliberately estranged from the love of God. There is a twofold punishment in hell: the pain of loss, which consists in the deprivation of the vision of God, and the pain of sense, which consists in the suffering caused by outside material things. The punishment of hell is eternal, as declared by Christ in his prediction of the last day (Matthew 25:46), and as defined by the Fourth Lateran Council, stating that the wicked will “receive a perpetual punishment with the devil” (Denzinger 801). The existence of hell is consistent with divine justice, since God respects human freedom and those who are lost actually condemn themselves by their resistance to the grace of God.
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ETERNAL PUNISHMENT.
he unending penalty suffered in hell by the evil spirits and the human beings who die in mortal sin. The Church bases her teaching about the existence of eternal punishment on the words of Christ in foretelling the final judgment (Matthew 25:34, 41). He compares the sentence of the just with the condemnation of the wicked. Christ as judge will first say, “Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take for your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.” But to the unjust, “Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Then he repeats the two judgments with a conclusion, speaking first of the lost and then of the saved, “And they will go into eternal [aionios] punishment, and the virtuous to eternal [aionios] life” (Matthew 25:46). Since there is no question about the endless duration of heaven, the Church concludes the same about hell. The eternity of hell was defined by the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215.
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therealpresence.org/dictionary/adict.htm
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St Alphonsus Liguori says the very thought of Hell should be enough to deliver us from it - that’s how terrible it is. Here’s a snippet from St. Alphonsus’ Sermon On the Eternity of Hell. :
Yes, says Saint Cyprian, in Eternity (∞) there is no Change, because the Decree is ‘Immutable’. This Thought shall Immensely Increase their Sufferings, by making them feel Beforehand, and at each-Moment, all that they shall have to Suffer for Eternity (∞). In his Description-of the Happiness-of the Saints, and the Misery-of the Reprobate, the Prophet Daniel says, “Those that Sleep in the Dust of the Earth, shall Awake: some unto Life Everlasting, and others unto Reproach, to see it always” - Daniel 12:2. They shall always see their Unhappy Eternity (∞). Ut videant semper. Thus, Eternity (∞) Tortures each-of the Damned,not only by his Present Pains, but with all his Future Sufferings, which are Eternal (∞).
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These are not ‘Opinions’, Controverted-among Theologians; they are ‘Dogmas-of Faith’, clearly Revealed-in the Sacred Scriptures. “Depart from Me, you Cursed, into Everlasting Fire which was Prepared for the Devil and his Angels” - Matthew 25:41. Some will say: The Fire, but not the Punishment of the Damned, is Everlasting. Such, the Language-of the Incredulous, but it is a Folly. For what other Purpose would God make this Fire Eternal (∞), than to Chastise the Reprobate, who are Immortal (∞)? But, to take-away every Shadow-of Doubt, the Scriptures, in many other places, say, that not only the Fire, but the Punishment of the Damned, is Eternal (∞). “And these”, says Jesus Christ, “shall go into Everlasting Punishment: but the Just, into Life Everlasting” - Matthew 25:46. Again we Read-in Saint Mark, “Where there, Worm Dieth not, and the Fire is not Extinguished” - Mark 9:43. Saint John says: “And the Smoke of their Torments shall Ascend up, Forever and Ever” - Revelation 14:11. “Who”, says Saint Paul, “shall Suffer Eternal Punishment in Destruction” - 2Thessalonians
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NeedImprovement said:
( * Didn’t Orville Redenbacher say that ?)

_______________________________________-

On a serious note: Hell exists.

Several definitions from Fr. John Hardon S.J.'s Modern Catholic Dictionary:

St Alphonsus Liguori says the very thought of Hell should be enough to deliver us from it - that’s how terrible it is. Here’s a snippet from St. Alphonsus’ Sermon On the Eternity of Hell. :
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Yes, but unfortunately according to most of those Saints, basically no one else gets in but them.

‘All persons desire to be saved, but the greater part, because they will not adopt the means of being saved, fall into sin and are lost. . . In fact, the Elect are much fewer than the damned, for the reprobate are much more numerous than the Elect.’
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church
 
40.png
NeedImprovement:
richardwaynegarganta.com/AION%20and%20AIONIOS.htm
 
laylow said:
Yes, but unfortunately according to most of those Saints, basically no one else gets in but them.

‘All persons desire to be saved, but the greater part, because they will not adopt the means of being saved, fall into sin and are lost. . . In fact, the Elect are much fewer than the damned, for the reprobate are much more numerous than the Elect.’
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church
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I’m more worried about getting in myself, to tell you the truth. That’s my preoccupation as a struggling sinner.

You might wish to try and verify what you read before posting it. It would make the posts more credible. It appears you were off base with your definition of Aionios (see post # 24)
 
NeedImprovement said:
( * Didn’t Orville Redenbacher say that ?)

_______________________________________-

On a serious note: Hell exists.

Several definitions from Fr. John Hardon S.J.'s Modern Catholic Dictionary:

St Alphonsus Liguori says the very thought of Hell should be enough to deliver us from it - that’s how terrible it is. Here’s a snippet from St. Alphonsus’ Sermon On the Eternity of Hell. :
Click to expand...
It’s all about how the word is translated. There is much question in my opinion. I would like to see a lot more studies on all of this.
 
laylow said:
Eternal comes from the word Aión, which actually means “Age” or “Eon.” Catholic history never taught of eternal torment until St. Augustine, who pretty much influenced most of our modern teachings. St Thomas Aquinas continued the tradition and may this comment, “The blessed in the heavenly kingdom will see the torment of the damned so that they may even more thoroughly enjoy their blessedness.”

He must have already been counting himself in, which is questionable and with that statement, that doesn’t seem very “saintly.”
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St Augustine did not make up the eternal punishment of hell. It is in the gospel of Jesus Christ (cf. what Jesus said about his second coming and the final judgement, Matt. 25: 31-46). as well as the Old Testament. You also might want to read what the fathers of the Church said before St Augustine because your knowledge of catholic history here is not catholic history. Also, the reality of the eternal punishment of hell has always been taught officially by the Church throughout its 2000 year Tradition, it is a dogma of the faith founded on the word of God, that is, Sacred Scripture as well as the Word of God, Jesus.
 
Richca said:
St Augustine did not make up the eternal punishment of hell. It is in the gospel of Jesus Christ (cf. what Jesus said about his second coming and the final judgement, Matt. 25: 31-46). as well as the Old Testament. You also might want to read what the fathers of the Church said before St Augustine because your knowledge of catholic history here is not catholic history. Also, the reality of the eternal punishment of hell has always been taught officially by the Church throughout its 2000 year Tradition, it is a dogma of the faith founded on the word of God, that is, Sacred Scripture as well as the Word of God, Jesus.
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Can you provide documentation of this…I want to see the history.
 
Why should I believe Richard Wayne Garganta from AD 2017 over Jesus Christ and His Church (established AD 33?)
 
friardchips said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=26878691

*‘1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he **“will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,”*613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”**614’
Click to expand...
Oh, that’s weird, I posted a link to my own threads. :p:D

I meant to post the link to the Catechism. 🤷
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Why should I believe Richard Wayne Garganta from AD 2017 over Jesus Christ and His Church (established AD 33?)
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You should believe who you believe. However, you were not there when Jesus roamed (unless you are that amazing!) so it’s about interpretation.

For something as overwhelmingly important as eternal punishment, it would have been nice for Jesus to spell it out word for word and not leave it to mystery. I guess we are not entitled to that, which is understandable since we are just worthless humans. But good is it to subject the majority of your creation to eternal punishment. Obviously, that’s up to any of us know or understand.
 
laylow said:
This valley was known as a place of fiery torture and sacrifices to honor pagan gods. When King Josiah burned
down the evil altars, the location remained a site for burning pagan artifacts as the country was purged of idolatry.
“
converted by Web2PDFConvert.com
As time went on and there were no more idols to burn, some accounts suggest the people of Jerusalem began
dumping and burning their trash in the valley.
Archaeological evidence suggest the valley was a sewage dump during the time of Jesus, but regardless of its
literal usage, we know with certainty that the place itself was historically associated with death and fire. When
Jesus refers to Gehenna as “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” in Mark 9, he is making a
clear connection to the valley’s historic past, using the language of Isaiah 66:
And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat
them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all
mankind.
When we look at Israel’s history, we see times when Gehenna was quite literally a place of perpetual fire. We see a
dump filled with so many bodies that the worms would never die from lack of sustenance. The valley contained so
much trash, thrown out from the besieged city’s walls, that the bodies would burn perpetually without end.
Click to expand...
Well, the link to the actual place would seem to make sense in spiritual terms - idoltry. Hell is for those who selfishly spend their whole lives attaining things for themselves without much care for others i.e:- we don’t put God and neighbour before our own wants and therefore make idols of the things in our lives.
NeedImprovement said:
( * Didn’t Orville Redenbacher say that ?)
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😃 maybe.

There is of course a difference between virtual salt popcorn, virtual sweet popcorn, virtually salt popcorn and virtually sweet popcorn
 
As I mentioned, I think it is a worthy discussion. Obviously I don’t have the answer. But I do think the church did use the ‘fear’ tactic a bit to get followers and members.
 
Well, I’ve read through this entire thread, and to be honest, Laylow, I think you have some “out there” kind of ideas.

I don’t see the connection between the narrow gate and people in the US needing to suffer unmitigated pain in this life to have a chance. :confused:

And why, if you are Catholic, are you putting more weight on the musings of non-Catholic writers than the magisterium of your own Church? :confused:

And if the understanding of hell is all about interpretation, as you say, how do you know whose interpretation to trust? Don’t you end up just finding the person whose opinion is closest to yours and saying, “Ah, here at last is a man who understands!”

Personally, if you actually are Catholic, then look to the teachings of the Catholic Church as presented in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

I don’t have time to the do the research for you at this moment – my son needs my attention – but hopefully you’ll take the time to look it, or perhaps some kind CAF member will be able to spare a moment to do that for you.

God bless you!
 
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