Hell

[uglygal]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

 

[angelusm]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

Catholics don’t hate others (I’m not speaking in the name of protestants because I’m not one of them), while we are hated, mainly by non-believers and muslims.
Catholic Church can declare somebody blessed or saint, it means CC informes they are in heaven, they are saved (in a protestant language “saved” means something different: a believer). CC NEVER says somebody is damned, while it’s our duty to warn others - if you do this and that you will be damned (we can say it bacause we know the commandments), it’s caused by love, not by hatred.
Jesus founded His Church so that we could live in unity with Peter and other christians. He doesn’t want us to be “independent” or to have our private “spirituality”. If you don’t want to obey Jesus, it is a problem.

 

[Tietjen]

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Catholics don’t “hate non-Christians” in fact we are called to love everyone. There may be individuals who happen to be Catholic or Protestant that feel differently, but that is NOT what Christ taught and is NOT what the Catholic Church teaches. As for “a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service,” that is not the case. The Church is not trying to get people to pay lip-service. It wants real legit people who know, recognize, and love Jesus Christ. Of course it’s purpose here on earth is to assist people in finding a REAL relationship with Him; not simply one which is based on lip-service. As for the Church proclaiming someone being damned to Hell…I know of no instance where there has happened. Only God can judge a soul. The Church does not. Please understand that I am speaking of the Catholic Church when I say “the Church.” If there are Churches out there that say, “(Fill in a name) is damned to Hell” then they obviously are in error and very much so are overstepping their position.

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

No attacks here. As for me telling you whether or not you are going to Hell… That is something only God can decide. It’s not for another human being to pass judgment on a soul which belongs to God alone.

 

[uglygal]

The dogma of “no salvation outside the church” asserts i believe that all outside the Church and not in submission to the church clerical order will never find/attain salvation? is this correct?

If noone has the authority to judge someone as hellbound, then why is it often done by christians (including catholics)?

Is the all-round answer no? - that according to your faith I am not damned to hell. Perhaps to put my question in a better context, it is difficult to understand where I and others like me stand, between the “no salvation outside the church” doctrine, the Jesus loves every one ideal and the ultimately truth that you don’t know.

I have heard such responses before but they are all different. If the church is one than what is its one answer?

Thankyou.

 

[EHRAM]

The dogma of “no salvation outside the church” asserts i believe that all outside the Church and not in submission to the church clerical order will never find/attain salvation? is this correct?

If noone has the authority to judge someone as hellbound, then why is it often done by christians (including catholics)?

Is the all-round answer no? - that according to your faith I am not damned to hell. Perhaps to put my question in a better context, it is difficult to understand where I and others like me stand, between the “no salvation outside the church” doctrine, the Jesus loves every one ideal and the ultimately truth that you don’t know.

I have heard such responses before but they are all different. If the church is one than what is its one answer?

Thankyou.

Read paragraphs 839-848 and 1033-1037 of the Catechism on the Catholic Church (which is online at more than one web site). E.g. usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm
kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/index.cfm
usccb.org/catechism/text/index.htm

 

[po18guy]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

1. You are not ugly.
2. God loves you so much that he intended to create you since the very foundation of the earth. He loves you so much that he has revealed Himself to you, but not in fullness, but partially so that you will continue to seek him-and you are. A major part of God’s love for you is that He sent His Divine Son to save you rather than condemn you. He and the Father are one, so if you truly love God, you also love His Spirit and His Human nature, which is Christ Jesus. Since God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all love you more than we will ever know, a Son was sent to redeem you-since you inherited sin from our common ancestors.
3. God gives you a chance to return the great love He has for you-simply by loving His Son and obeying the Son’s rules for our lives.
4. True Christians do not hate anything except Satan and evil. Anyone who says they hate you is not Christian. God offered salvation to all of humanity, but it is our choice to accept it, or reject it. Christians choose to accept the salvation, but we must still strive toward perfection, even though we will not attain it in this life. If you have heard the truth, and here you have, and choose to reject it, then God Himself feels the rejection and will judge accordingly.
5. The Catholic Chruch does not condemn anyone to hell-it has no authority to do so, and has never declared that a single soul is there. However, God has sent Word of the means of salvation through Jesus Christ. These are not our rules, they came from God and have been passed down to us. None of us is absolutely sure of salvation, we must work continuously out of fear of God.
6. None of us wanted to turn away from our sinful lives, to sacrifice for the sake of others, but we are convinced that what God said, and the Word He sent is true. Thus, we deny ourselves and follow His commandments.
7. May God reveal the Word to you, for your eternal salvation.

Peace be with you.

 

[stringbeanduck]

The dogma of “no salvation outside the church” asserts i believe that all outside the Church and not in submission to the church clerical order will never find/attain salvation? is this correct?

If noone has the authority to judge someone as hellbound, then why is it often done by christians (including catholics)?

Is the all-round answer no? - that according to your faith I am not damned to hell. Perhaps to put my question in a better context, it is difficult to understand where I and others like me stand, between the “no salvation outside the church” doctrine, the Jesus loves every one ideal and the ultimately truth that you don’t know.

I have heard such responses before but they are all different. If the church is one than what is its one answer?

Thankyou.

Who hates you? I sure don’t. I can’t judge you or any1 to hell. Yes I have my opinions but that’s God’s choice where you go. But do you follow the bible? If so, you should know that Jesus instituted a church upon Peter. Yes Jesus and God do love every1. Any1 who does hate you needs to repent.

 

[Jestocost]

The dogma of “no salvation outside the church” asserts i believe that all outside the Church and not in submission to the church clerical order will never find/attain salvation? is this correct?

If noone has the authority to judge someone as hellbound, then why is it often done by christians (including catholics)?

Is the all-round answer no? - that according to your faith I am not damned to hell. Perhaps to put my question in a better context, it is difficult to understand where I and others like me stand, between the “no salvation outside the church” doctrine, the Jesus loves every one ideal and the ultimately truth that you don’t know.

I have heard such responses before but they are all different. If the church is one than what is its one answer?

Thankyou.

The Church believes that baptism is required for salvation and being baptised makes you a part of the Church. This is normally a water baptism using the Trinitarian formula. However, the Church has also always believed in a “baptism of desire”, that is that those who want to be baptised but are prevented from doing so can also be saved. Part of this would be an implicit baptism of desire. This is basically saying that if you knew that God wanted you to be baptised, you would do so. No human can know if this is the case in another person, so the Church never declares anyone damned.

Why do you get different answers? 2 reasons:

1. not every Catholic knows Church teachings as well as they should.
2. People are sinners.

 

[ncgolf]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice.

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

The doctrine of hell is unpleasant for what it describes is horrible but that does not mean it is not real. You ask a question that even Christians ask … why would there be a hell if God is Perfect Love. You will have to dig deeper than deciding it so unpleasant that it just cannot be. The Catholic Church teaches it is real and people do go there. We always want to know how many and who … why those questions? Because we want to compare ourselves to those that do end up there. If we knew we could say … hey I am better than that … it would be living a life of minimums … just enough to get in, that is human nature.

You also say God is Perfect Mercy … He is but what if someone rejects that Mercy? We are free creatures and mercy must be given and received. God respects our free will so much that He would let us reject it. I am curious and interested then into what you mean by Perfect Mercy. I see mercy as a gift, accepted by me when offered or accepted when asked for? I ask again what if I never ask or I refuse God’s mercy?

Do you think there is a hell as described in Catholic theology? Also you mention God is Perfect Justice … what do you mean by that? Is justice not getting what one deserves for one’s action. If a person is caught stealing red-handed does that person have an expectation that he may go to jail? Would the person be more suprised by not going to jail? If someone indeed rejects all that is good, does nothing but harm to everyone … what is God supposed to do?

 

[Tietjen]

The dogma of “no salvation outside the church” asserts i believe that all outside the Church and not in submission to the church clerical order will never find/attain salvation? is this correct?

No, not in the way you appear to understand it. Click here for an explantion of what is REALLY meant. You are not alone in believing what you believe. MANY people, Protestants and otherwise, misunderstand what the Catholic Church is saying here.

If noone has the authority to judge someone as hellbound, then why is it often done by christians (including catholics)?

Because people, unlike God, are not perfect. They have misunderstandings, sin, and plain ignorance in their character. In that regard, the Catholic Church is the same as every other religion… sinners abound.

Is the all-round answer no? - that according to your faith I am not damned to hell. Perhaps to put my question in a better context, it is difficult to understand where I and others like me stand, between the “no salvation outside the church” doctrine, the Jesus loves every one ideal and the ultimately truth that you don’t know.

According to my faith (the Catholic Church), the answer is left to God to decide. Only He knows your heart, mind and soul. He alone has the authority to determine each of our final destinations. Hopefully, the link above helped to explain the “no salvation outside the Church doctrine.” Jesus DOES love everyone. The “ultimate Truth” IS known through the “pillar of Truth” which is the Church. God did not simply put everybody here without any sort of guidance, in the hope that some might stumble upon the Truth.

I have heard such responses before but they are all different. If the church is one than what is its one answer?

That depends on the question; but if you are asking about salvation, the answer is Jesus Christ. To find out more, God gives us His Church, which helps us to stay on track.

God bless.

 

[ABiii]

Wow… Great topic. I will try to provide a rational reason without relying on Church law or dogma… so for those who don’t like my answer, please consider that.

Actually, whoever told you you were going to hell made an assertion that he/she does not know about. Apart from God, no one can really make that assertion, not even an establishment like the Catholic Church.

In essence, I do not think you are going to hell. Especially since you seek and know God. People that will go to hell are basically those who do not want to be with God and have chosen to live their lives as such. The most basic thing that God will judge people by is how they loved ( him and others ).

No way would Jesus say that if you did not belong to a particular church that a person will go to hell. What he did say is that whoever knows him knows the father, and that he is of the father. It makes it easier to know God through Jesus. Likewise, within the same principle, one cannot hate Jesus but love the father.

Jesus did say that God’s sheep hear his voice (not just through scripture, but with reason). You definitely hear his voice with reason as guide. Even saint Paul affirms that the law is written in our hearts (I believe it’s in Romans). Church Law aside, it is what is in the heart that God looks at… people can comment all they want about Church law and dogma, but God measures you in love. That is why Jesus prefers the repentant tax collector to the righteous pharisee.

What then is the real benefit of Catholicism?

It is only beneficial to be a member if it is the best way to salvation or know God or to be in heaven (which is all kind of the same in the end).

If Jesus isn’t the son of God, then Catholics are following a false belief.

If Jesus is the son of God, then non-Christians will eventually end up in heaven, but will have to go through a big adjustment (Purgatory) before getting there. It’s kind of like you being welcomed to a wedding, but you don’t even know the bride and groom… of course you would want to know them, especially if they are nice. In the end, if you hated Jesus, it would take a big adjustment to feel welcomed in his and his father’s house. Let’s say you spat on a picture of Jesus and then realizing oops… he really is God… ouch!

It is then worth it to investigate the validity of Jesus’ claims. It is everyone’s duty (Christian’s included) to ask themselves if Jesus’ claims are true.

What is the benefit of Catholicism over another Christian faith?

Out of all Christian denominations, Catholicism has the benefit of the teaching of the original leaders/founders of the faith and can trace itself back to Jesus’ time. Despite the changes in time, culture and context, it tries best to remain within the original Christian teachings and reviews itself (Vatican 2, etc.) in order to do so. According to scripture, it is also guided by God’s spirit in doing so.

It is composed of imperfect people… and admittedly so. However, that is the real situation we live in, an imperfect people deeply in love with a perfect God.

 

[Publisher]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

You are not “damned”…you are loved with an unending Love…you are a chosen daughter…a favored child.

The “minority” voices in scripture tell us that it is His will that none perish…we are told “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself…”…we are told “God so loved the world…”…“every knee will bow and confess to Him…” we are told "His mercy endures forever.’

You are in the Best of Hands…you are in the Hands that know you best, and Love you most…

 

[Contarini]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

That is not true. Whether you are going to hell or not depends on whether you are deliberately rejecting the truth out of pride and stubbornness. Of course, we can’t tell that–perhaps not even you can (self-deception is very easy). The main thing that would make me worry about you is your rather boastful claim that your “spirituality” is “profoundly simple and pure.” By and large, people with a profoundly simple and pure spirituality do not brag about it in that way. But, of course, you do not go to hell for failing to have a profoundly simple and pure spirituality. You go to hell only if you choose to.

Edwin

 

[uglygal]

The doctrine of hell is unpleasant for what it describes is horrible but that does not mean it is not real. You ask a question that even Christians ask … why would there be a hell if God is Perfect Love. You will have to dig deeper than deciding it so unpleasant that it just cannot be. The Catholic Church teaches it is real and people do go there. We always want to know how many and who … why those questions? Because we want to compare ourselves to those that do end up there. If we knew we could say … hey I am better than that … it would be living a life of minimums … just enough to get in, that is human nature.

You also say God is Perfect Mercy … He is but what if someone rejects that Mercy? We are free creatures and mercy must be given and received. God respects our free will so much that He would let us reject it. I am curious and interested then into what you mean by Perfect Mercy. I see mercy as a gift, accepted by me when offered or accepted when asked for? I ask again what if I never ask or I refuse God’s mercy?

Do you think there is a hell as described in Catholic theology? Also you mention God is Perfect Justice … what do you mean by that? Is justice not getting what one deserves for one’s action. If a person is caught stealing red-handed does that person have an expectation that he may go to jail? Would the person be more suprised by not going to jail? If someone indeed rejects all that is good, does nothing but harm to everyone … what is God supposed to do?

I do believe in a hell because God has told me it exists. I believe that mercy and justice are not mutually exclusive. I pray for God’s mercy everyday and pray that he will purify my soul and purge all evil from it. Likewise I also hope that a hell does exist because evil and the damage it causes is so horrifically vile that all eternity would not be enough to make up for it.

Yet I do not believe in hell as described in catholic theology - some unending torture chamber where God torments you forever whether your a murderer,a rapist or simply not catholic. I believe that God Himself is Truth and the One Religion. Him alone, not human superstition and rituals that attempt to bind God. For this reason I don’t believe I will ever pray the rosary or other chaplets because the promises attached to them are superstitious. In saying this, i’m not attempting to be unkind but their nature (ie: if i say this prayer, this many times, I shall get this result) seems superstitious to me.

Just to clarify my question, it is not whether people who reject God’s mercy and do evil go to hell. It is whether people are damned for the “sin” of not adhering to a particular religion.

I believe, because I believe god revealed to me, that His Heart is the perfect way to heaven and is the only road that leads there. The only door entering Heaven is the Heart of God and to pass through one must imitate and be transformed perfectly into the likeness of God. All things contrary to God will not enter heaven, therefore someone sinful, someone who hurts others, someone unrepentant, will not.
To explain, I believe heaven and hell are destinations of a journey. One does not simply choose heaven or hell upon their deathbed. One chooses heaven and hell everyday with their every action, word and thought. Every thing done contrary to God (evil, harm, malice etc) is you saying “I want hell”, whilst everything pure and good that you do, is you choosing “I want God”.

I do believe in Perfect Mercy - perfect in that it is never given too much or too little, because everything that God does is perfect. I do believe in perfect mercy that is accessible to all even if they don’t happen to say the proper “catholic” formula, or the proper “I choose Jesus as my savior” formula. Whenever someone repents, which I believe is a turning of life towards God as opposed to a verbal declaration, than God rejoices over this and accepts them. He saves them, and what is lacking or impure or broken, he will mend! On the other hand, if someone where to do all good yet reject God, then they would have chosen hell. I’m not sure if I have explained that well but it is an attempt. I sometimes find it hard to put into words what goes on in my soul.

I will try to pin my concern on an example. How is it true that someone who confesses Jesus as Lord is saved regardless of what they may do, whilst another is perceived as hellbound because they do not recognize Jesus as Lord. That position seems illogical to me Love is proved by action, not mere words.

I will go and read the links provided. I haven’t done that yet, but after I do so there may be more questions.

I can’t think of anything else. Please be patient with me, I’m not trying to stir mischief.

Thankyou,
In God’s Love

 

[uglygal]

The main thing that would make me worry about you is your rather boastful claim that your “spirituality” is “profoundly simple and pure.” By and large, people with a profoundly simple and pure spirituality do not brag about it in that way. But, of course, you do not go to hell for failing to have a profoundly simple and pure spirituality. You go to hell only if you choose to.

Edwin

It wasn’t my intent to brag or to be boastful and I apologize if you saw it that way. Still God knows my heart and knows that it wasn’t my intent to exalt myself.
I think perhaps you misunderstood what i meant by it being simple and pure. Perhaps you think of the saints who describe themselves as such and think how can an uglygal make the same claim? When I describe it as such, I do not mean spiritually supreme but as being finally, after many years, stripped away from superstitious beliefs and stripped of fear, purged of the damage done to my faith by many meddling hands. By simple, i meant that it is void of voluminous books and doctrines until God alone remains.



You can rest easy, this girl knows she is nothing but clay and the heights of holiness are beyond her - but she does believe God can carry her with Him and God can make perfect that which is lacking in her. God’s love enables one to be confident

 

[ABiii]

Hi,

I believe you have the incorrect definition of hell… so many people have that same false definition that it bothers me. It’s actually not like that at all.

If I wasn’t at work right now, I would provide a better explanation. Maybe later.

The best part of heaven is God’s presence. That is the prize… that means the punishment of hell is basically the loss of God ( and that is what burns, the flames of hell are symbolic of that loss).

Believe me, it breaks God’s heart when people choose to go to hell, it hurts God more than it hurts the person going there. He does not want to send them there. Unfortunately, people choose to go there, as it is where their heart is. God, the loving being that he is respects that, and allows them to do so… like the father in the Prodigal son, that let his son make the wrong choices, but is willing to welcome him back.

I guess I will write again later with better explanations.

 

[ralphinal]

If you know that Jesus is who he claimed to be, and you know that the Catholic Church contains the fullness of faith here on earth, then to deny either one is a problem. If you beleive Christ, but have trouble accepting the Church, then denying Christ is a problem. If you are not able to accept Jesus’ claims, for whatever reason, then that does not mean that you are doomed to hell.

Everyone is searching for Truth. Some find it to their satisfaction, some don’t. Everyone, however, must keep growing in faith.

I do not judge you. I do not hate you. I am happy that you have a good relationship with God. May He guide you.

 

[uglygal]

I have read the link to “salvation outside the church” and I am none the wiser. I see in those words exactly what I have always understood the doctrine to be.

“Whoever is separated from this Catholic Church, by this single sin of being separated from the unity of Christ, no matter how estimable a life he may imagine he is living, shall not have life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” (ibid., 141:5). - The wrath of God is upon me and people like me regardless of how well I may/attempt to live???

“salvation, which is the strength of the sacrament, he will not have, if he has had the sacrament outside the Catholic Church [and remains in deliberate schism]. He must therefore return to the Church, not so that he might receive again the sacrament of baptism, which no one dare repeat in any baptized person, but so that he may receive eternal life in Catholic society, for the obtaining of which no one is suited who, even with the sacrament of baptism, remains estranged from the Catholic Church” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]) - People like me have no salvation because we are not and refuse to be in the fold of the church???

“Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation” - People like me are strangers to hope and salvation???

“Let them not think that the way of life or salvation exists for them, if they have refused to obey the bishops and priests, since the Lord says in the book of Deuteronomy: ‘And any man who has the insolence to refuse to listen to the priest or judge, whoever he may be in those days, that man shall die’ [Deut. 17:12]” - I am going to die because I do not believe in or obey the catholic clergy???

The men who wrote those works were not amongst the damned … of course

if there is a common incorrect perception that exists among non-catholics, maybe there is a reason for it? In answer to my question, what I read from those quotes is that yes, people who are not a part of the church do not have salvation and to be without salvation is to be damned.

Seriously, I am at a loss. What am I misunderstanding?
Thanks,

 

[ralphinal]

Please follow this link

catholic.com/library/salvation_outside_the_church.asp**

It works like this (correct me if is am wrong)

I know that Jesus is who he claimed to be, and I know that the Catholic Church is where I should be. If I turn my back on either one, I am doomed. No salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

There are, however, lots of people who for whatever reason do not know Jesus or the Truth of his Church. These people have other means of salvation if, and only if, their denial of Christ or his Church is not an intentional act of will in defiance of their mind or heart.

The doctrine goes a step further. Because the Catholic Church is the Churhc founded by Christ to spread the Word, it is through the Church that the work of salvation continues

 

[ABiii]

Honestly, the logic for the automatic damnation part according to religion/denomination is flawed.

I am Catholic and I believe in salvation apart from the Catholic Church. Nowhere in the early apostolic teachings teach that your denomination determines your salvation.

The irony of that is that Catholic means Universal… wierd

Before Vatican 2, the Catholic church taught that anyone who isn’t catholic isn’t going to heaven. (I have pre-vatican 2 book that asserts that.) That logic is more political than it is reasonable. Would Jesus even affirm that?

After Vatican 2, they hid it from the teachings. Apparently, it is still there…

Before it was proven that the world rotated around the Sun, the Catholic church insisted that the universe centered around the earth. Once it was proven, they recanted.

Even the pope rallied people to do the crusades by telling them that their sins would be forgiven if they did so… and they filled the streets of Jerusalem with blood.

Interestingly enough, Papal infallibility was invented by a pope.

Just as there are the 200 laws that Moses provided, they are not in equal stature to the original 10 commandments he got from the Mountain. Equally, the CCC is a guidebook, but not the definite rulebook for Christianism/Catholicism. The ultimate judge is God.

Heaven would be a sad place if only Catholics lived in it, and the Catholic God would not be a loving God because instead of love, he measured by denomination.

The best part of Catholicism is the theory behind the faith, and not the laws that govern it.

After all, didn’t the Jews crucify Jesus based on being strict on their laws? They were so blinded by the laws that they forgot how to love. They sought God, but even when God was with us, they missed him completely.