Hell

[Shiphrae]

I will quote this statement in another topic because it is exactly what I was taught yet when a difficulty arises in the Church, catholics are quick to distinguish Christ and the Church.

No they’re not or they shouldn’t be. The real, true Church founded by Jesus Christ led by the Holy Spirit does not make mistakes. God is incapable of mistakes. People who act under the name of the Church without the guidance of the Holy Spirit make the mistakes.

Peace in Christ,
Shiphrae

 

[believers]

I am not a Christian. I do not believe in the christian “theology” of God because it is cruel and unjust.
What I do believe is that God is One, all Pure and Perfect, Perfect Love, Perfect Mercy, Perfect Justice. I do not adhere to any identifiable religion other than to simply say: my faith = “I Believe”, my God = “He Is”, eternity = “perfect love”.
My spirituality has become profoundly simple and pure and it has been given to me by God Himself. I asked Him, how am I to know what way is right and all he showed me was His heart - the Heart of God.

Yet I am damned according to Christians. God has not abandoned me and is present in my life on a daily basis, but according to church dogma, I am hellbound and damned because I am not in the institution of the church.

So my question is, why do christians hate non-christians so much? why is religion reduced to a tug of war of trying to get people to pay lip-service the way the church teaches? Where does the church get authority to proclaim any soul damned to hell?

Telling someone they are hellbound is a very serious accusation to make (I think). Please don’t attack me personally because of the question and/or don’t attack me as an ‘answer’ to the question. I genuinely want to know if someone like me (non-christian) is going to hell - and why.

Thankyou

Hi beautifulgal (that’s what Jesus thinks of you!)!

Rejecting The Roman Catholic Church is not the same as rejecting Jesus. Us Bible only protestants do it all the time and we know we’re saved.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Notice how God said whosoever and NOT whosoever in the Roman Catholic Church.)

Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(Notice how God said whosoever and NOT whosoever in the Roman Catholic Church and gets water baptized)

Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
(For by grace THROUGH faith… Not By grace THROUGH water baptism and the Roman Catholic Church)

Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
(Notice how Jesus DID NOT say… now go and get water baptized and join the Roman Catholic Church)

 

[believers]

No they’re not or they shouldn’t be. The real, true Church founded by Jesus Christ led by the Holy Spirit does not make mistakes. God is incapable of mistakes. People who act under the name of the Church without the guidance of the Holy Spirit make the mistakes.

Peace in Christ,
Shiphrae

That’s not what God said in the Book of Revelation. Those churches made mistakes.

Here’s an example…

Rev 2:12
And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

Rev 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan’s seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Rev 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Rev 2:15
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Rev 2:16
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

[Shiphrae]

originally possted by believers
Rejecting The Roman Catholic Church is not the same as rejecting Jesus. Us Bible only protestants do it all the time and we know we’re saved.

Yes, but at some point, if you’re REALLY true and faithful to Jesus Christ, you have to come to the fullness of His teachings. He instituted the Church and He said ‘follow me’.

Peace of Christ,
Shiphrae

 

[believers]

Yes, but at some point, if you’re REALLY true and faithful to Jesus Christ, you have to come to the fullness of His teachings. He instituted the Church and He said ‘follow me’.

Peace of Christ,
Shiphrae

Yes, He did say “follow me” along with many other things like “repent”. And no, He did not institute the RCC. If so, then when? When exactly did Peter start up the RCC when Paul was given the Gospel to the gentiles and Paul was given the Gospel to the Jews? Peter was the Apostle to the Jews… not gentiles.

Gal 2:9
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me (Paul), they gave to me (Paul) and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen (gentiles; that’s us! That includes Rome too!), and they (James, Cephas, and John) unto the circumcision (also known as the Jews).

 

[Shiphrae]

originally posted by believers
That’s not what God said in the Book of Revelation. Those churches made mistakes.

(RSV)
Mat 16:13-25
[16] Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
[17] And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
[19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Peace in Christ,
Shiphrae

 

[blessedtoo]

I will quote this statement in another topic because it is exactly what I was taught yet when a difficulty arises in the Church, catholics are quick to distinguish Christ and the Church.

No. We distinguish between the fallen members of the Church of the Church herself.

A somewhat lame example:
The institution of the Presidency in this country is still noble and worthy despite the fact that certain presidents make a mockery of the office. We do not abandon what we know to be true and good about the institution itself because of what a few of the elect do in that office.

The institution of medicine is good and worthy although many, many doctors are incompetent, inefficient, even cruel. We do not reject medicine and science in total because of the mistakes of a few.

So it is with the Church that has survived and thrived for over 2,000 years, unchanged. Every disciple is called to Sainthood and we almost unilaterally fail as a group and as individuals. Catholics, being called to such lofty and high standards, have an even greater danger of falling from such heights. If the bar is only set a medium height, as is the case for many other Christian denominations, one’s expectations and disappointments are never as great as they are with the righteous and/or fallen Catholic. Witness the outrage about the priest abuse scandals. Witness your own bitterness (and mine from the past).

Your apparent inability to forgive those who hurt you will continue to be a stumbling block to spiritual growth, regardless of how you may “feel”. A true relationship with God is based on content, not emotion and feelings. According to your posts, the only “content” upon which to form an understanding of God is your own impressions and interpretations. For me, that sounds like a dangerous endeavor. We expect, seek, and welcome guidance in almost every area of our lives because we understand that without it, our ability to grow will be hindered. Without the Bible, without the Church, without a community, you have placed more trust and faith in yourself and your feelings than in the tangible elements God has left for us for guidance.