Hello, A Satanist has joined you

[Imryl]

Hogwash, to the above quote. Who said that salvation is to ultimately bring human nature into harmony with itself and where in the world did you find that in the Bible.

If you knew how to read, you would notice that is not even what I said. Besides you’re Catholic no? What about that wounded, sinful nature?

That one comment that you pulled Jesus Himself said we must lose the flesh to gain the Spirit.

So then… are you saying you need to lose the flesh? That it’s evil? because that is exactly what it sounds like.

The object of salvation is to become closer to God as much as humanly possible that means to shed the flesh and grow in spirit.

Again, if you are saying that Catholics believe that the flesh is inherently evil, you are wrong. Period.

Has nothing to do with human nature being at peace with humanity.

Just… wow. Love your neighbor as yourself … anyone?

Part 3. Section 2 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

2196 In response to the question about the first of the commandments, Jesus says: "The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these."2

I didn’t say anything about human nature being at peace with humanity. I said salvation was ultimately to bring human nature into harmony with itself. (Ordering ones emotions, intellect, body and will toward God; In fewer words, rebuking sin) ALSO to bring humans into peace with each other. AND to bring humans into peace with God.

You can not be reconciled with God without receiving absolution from your priest during confession, turning away from your sinful actions, loving your neighbor and above all, loving God.
(Note 1: I did not say forgiven, instead I mean receive the forgiveness already offered…
Note 2: I’m aware of the perfect act of contrition)

The word Salvation actually means to save ourselves from ourselves - not to become harmonious with ourselves but rather to become harmonious with God.

Excuse me? “Salvation” is from the Latin root, “salus.” It means health, safety, salvation. The Greek word for savior is “soter.”

God is not human He is Spirit. God created man in his image this does not mean God is human.

Erm. Catholics believe that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine. I learned that in my CCD class at age 6.

I am not saying Catholics should lose all their humanly desires; I am saying lose the desires that are not in line with God to grow in Spirit. Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I am saying.

I must be completely misreading your posts… Because … well because of everything I’ve stated above.

 

[bbarrick8383]

‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

I will always love my neighbors. But if I find out they are a Satanist I will no longer associate with them.

 

[Imryl]

That isn’t even the point I’m addressing Bbarrick. I’m not interested in this topic about tolerence and where who lives. I’ve completely ignored that topic.

You all have your discussion about blacks, homosexuals or Satanists. I don’t care who you people decide to associate with and why. You don’t need to explain yourselves to me.

 

[Dan86]

Do believe that Satan is a real person, or just a principle or metaphor?

 

[bbarrick8383]

That isn’t even the point I’m addressing Bbarrick. I’m not interested in this topic about tolerence and where who lives. I’ve completely ignored that topic.

You all have your discussion about blacks, homosexuals or Satanists. I don’t care who you people decide to associate with and why. You don’t need to explain yourselves to me.

Again, what does being black have to do with being homosexual or satanist?

Is there something I do not get? Is there a book I can read while sipping a 6 dollar latte that will explain this to me?

 

[fbl9]

When God said “let Us make man in Our image” Was Christ born yet? No…so it is correct to say at that time God is a pure spiritual being…
now for the twist…we all agree God is eternal,since God is eternal time ,He is past,present and future at one and the same…so then one should say that God did indeed exist in the flesh,as the Son,Jesus Christ…thus one can say that even in Genisis that the Trinity is cloaked…

 

[happymommy]

That isn’t even the point I’m addressing Bbarrick. I’m not interested in this topic about tolerence and where who lives. I’ve completely ignored that topic.

You all have your discussion about blacks, homosexuals or Satanists. I don’t care who you people decide to associate with and why. You don’t need to explain yourselves to me.

Didn’t you know that when someone doesn’t have anything else to add to a thread, that could possible be on topic, they bring up prejudice, just to start another debate?

 

[Imryl]

Again, what does being black have to do with being homosexual or satanist?

Is there something I do not get? Is there a book I can read while sipping a 6 dollar latte that will explain this to me?

Where is the cry emoticon… I desperately need one.

It doesn’t have anything to do with anything…

You all (LilyM, Blade, jfhh, Layman, etc) have been going at a asinine topic about tolerance and being “judgmental” for a day or two. You, in the post before the one I am quoting right now, chime in on a completely different topic, about how you would stop associating with a satanist if you knew they were a satanist. My point is, you were intruding on a discussion that has nothing to do with the topic that you, Bbarrick, have been involved in for a couple days.

So - I mean, I don’t care how you treat whomever for whatever reason… I say this, because you were quoting my post.

No…so it is correct to say at that time God is a pure spiritual being…
now for the twist…we all agree God is eternal,since God is eternal time ,He is past,present and future at one and the same…so then one should say that God did indeed exist in the flesh,as the Son,Jesus Christ…thus one can say that even in Genisis that the Trinity is cloaked…

Wow, I have a very serious desire to address your post sir, but it is completely off topic. Someone who is Catholic address this one so I don’t get accused of trying to lie again. >.<

 

[bbarrick8383]

Where is the cry emoticon… I desperately need one.

It doesn’t have anything to do with anything…

You all (LilyM, Blade, jfhh, Layman, etc) have been going at a asinine topic about tolerance and being “judgmental” for a day or two. You, in the post before the one I am quoting right now, chime in on a completely different topic, about how you would stop associating with a satanist if you knew they were a satanist. My point is, you were intruding on a discussion that has nothing to do with the topic that you, Bbarrick, have been involved in for a couple days.

So - I mean, I don’t care how you treat whomever for whatever reason… I say this, because you were quoting my post.

Well, personally I would not call it asinine since it has to do with Satanism. The OP was talking about Satanism. It went to tolerance of Satanism and others who I’d fit neatly in similar categories.

But reading through the last few posts of yours, the love your neighbors as you love yourself caught my eye.

And that’s mainly because you make it seem like me not tolerating Satanism in the area in which I’ve chosen to reside and raise my family makes me the bad guy.

So, you and others outside of this forum convenietly, have lumped black people in with satanist and homosexuals.

Ultimately, I think trying to make me look like a prejudice bigot.

When I am just standing up for traditional family and moral values.

 

[Imryl]

And that’s mainly because you make it seem like me not tolerating Satanism in the area in which I’ve chosen to reside and raise my family makes me the bad guy.

That is absolutely not what I was saying, I was speaking strictly to what I quoted just before that comment. You can’t possibly think I would ever allow my daughter to play in the yard of someone convicted, or even suspected, of child molestation. You are absolutely correct in that you are responsible for the safety and protection of your family. I also wouldn’t confuse my daughters sexuality with trying to explain why her great aunt has a girlfriend rather then a husband. She doesn’t need to worry about those things at her age. Again, I agree.

So, you and others outside of this forum convenietly, have lumped black people in with satanist and homosexuals.

Dear lord no. I was joking about your discussion, not trying to stir it up again. That is the problem with online communications… Tone and body language is completely lost, and so meaning is also lost.

 

[happymommy]

Well, personally I would not call it asinine since it has to do with Satanism. The OP was talking about Satanism. It went to tolerance of Satanism and others who I’d fit neatly in similar categories.

But reading through the last few posts of yours, the love your neighbors as you love yourself caught my eye.

And that’s mainly because you make it seem like me not tolerating Satanism in the area in which I’ve chosen to reside and raise my family makes me the bad guy.

So, you and others outside of this forum convenietly, have lumped black people in with satanist and homosexuals.

Ultimately, I think trying to make me look like a prejudice bigot.

When I am just standing up for traditional family and moral values.

Why does it have to become about prejudice and tolerating people? We were discussing religion and beliefs and out of no where comes this topic of, well I don’t want Satanist in my neighborhood and somehow it turned to blacks and gays, what! Please lets stay on the true topic. If you don’t want to read about Satanism or read Catholics giving their opinion on the subject, then read a different thread. Know wonder the kid who started this thread hasn’t been back. This isn’t what he wanted to talk about. UGH!:banghead:

 

[Imryl]

We were discussing religion and beliefs and out of no where comes this topic of, well I don’t want Satanist in my neighborhood and somehow it turned to blacks and gays, what!

EXACTLY. Thank you Happymommy. I was completely baffled with that topic as well

 

[jfhh]

you can bet there would be extreme if not violent reaction on my part!

And rightly. Desecration of a body is a heinous moral wrong, whether it’s Our Lord’s or anyone else’s - and like I said, the greater the moral wrong the more important to prevent it, and the greater the force that you are entitled to use in its prevention.

Lily, I thought you told me that you don’t support violence. Now you say a violent reaction would be “right.” Which is it?

 

[bbarrick8383]

That is absolutely not what I was saying, I was speaking strictly to what I quoted just before that comment. You can’t possibly think I would ever allow my daughter to play in the yard of someone convicted, or even suspected, of child molestation. You are absolutely correct in that you are responsible for the safety and protection of your family. I also wouldn’t confuse my daughters sexuality with trying to explain why her great aunt has a girlfriend rather then a husband. She doesn’t need to worry about those things at her age. Again, I agree.

Dear lord no. I was joking about your discussion, not trying to stir it up again. That is the problem with online communications… Tone and body language is completely lost, and so meaning is also lost.

Thank you for being honest.

Why does it have to become about prejudice and tolerating people? We were discussing religion and beliefs and out of no where comes this topic of, well I don’t want Satanist in my neighborhood and somehow it turned to blacks and gays, what! Please lets stay on the true topic. If you don’t want to read about Satanism or read Catholics giving their opinion on the subject, then read a different thread. Know wonder the kid who started this thread hasn’t been back. This isn’t what he wanted to talk about. UGH!

I’m sorry if it seemed to come out of nowhere, I was picking it back up where I left off yesterday.

I understand the topics had changed, but part of one of those posts gave me the idea that she was inserting language that related to older posts on this thread.

Considering the title of this thread, I do not think he meant to stay long.

 

[fbl9]

Wow, I have a very serious desire to address your post sir, but it is completely off topic. Someone who is Catholic address this one so I don’t get accused of trying to lie again. >.<

go for it! not many would care too much anyhows…i wouldn’t accuse you of lieing…actually what reason do you have of lieing to mer fear being accused of being a liar…i don’t think i caused you any harm(yet) …

 

[happymommy]

I don’t think he meant to stay long either, just long enough to get emotions going. It worked.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Do believe that Satan is a real person, or just a principle or metaphor?

LaVeyan believes in a metaphorical Satan; a symbol. Theistic Satanism refers to an existing quasi deity… not a person, I don’t think.

 

[jfhh]

Why does it have to become about prejudice and tolerating people? We were discussing religion and beliefs and out of no where comes this topic of, well I don’t want Satanist in my neighborhood and somehow it turned to blacks and gays, what! Please lets stay on the true topic. If you don’t want to read about Satanism or read Catholics giving their opinion on the subject, then read a different thread. Know wonder the kid who started this thread hasn’t been back. This isn’t what he wanted to talk about. UGH!:banghead:

I was responding solely to this post

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4409389

I wasn’t saying anything else by anyone else was prejudiced. Some like you interpreted it that way, but I specifically quoted and responded just to that post. Then when different people came in and either confirmed that they were prejudiced or introduced other kinds of prejudice, the discussion went that way.

But by no means was I trying to say that everything preceding my post was prejudiced. What would make you think that? I hadn’t even read most of that and it would have been prejudiced for me to make that judgment before doing so.

As for me, as long as the Satanism you believe in preaches love, tolerance, and peace, I think it should be fine. If it includes doctrines that are antisocial in some way then just like any other religion with those propensities, it is not so fine.

As far as I know, Satanism is just another religion or umbrella of religions. I doubt it should be the final step for anyone, but it can be what gets one through this life or one step in the journey of life striving to be alive and love striving to be lovely.

One version of Satanism I was told about, was that “God” wanted all the angels to go along with his plan and worship him and follow his every decree. Satan and his allies disagreed with that. They thought the plan sucked. They also thought God didn’t value fun as much. So they decided to “disobey” God and have more fun instead. So I suppose they might be mischievous in their fun, but under this theory they are not like Hollywood evil.

What benefit would it be to a devil to “bring you down with him”? I’m not sure that’s even official Catholic doctrine, but Satan “adding” someone to his rule in hell wouldn’t like make him more happy, right? So there’s no selfish incentive there. That part is surely just a myth.

Even if Satan and company are evil, then the best thing to do would be to not make them angry. I mean if they really are all real and all evil enough to drag you to hell and there are literally billions or more of them out there, then you wouldn’t want like millions or billions of them plotting against you.

Angels, “fallen” or not, are finite creatures. So all their opinions are valid. We shouldn’t be prejudiced against the “fallen” angels. I think to find out more about the opinions of the heavenly realm that disagree from the bible, you would want to look at all the scriptures unearthed like Gospel of Judas, etc. Remember, an angel inspired Mary, an angel appeared to Joseph, etc. The bible is a book that tells the story of angels. It’s not the complete truth. The complete truth can’t be written down. It can’t be confined to paper or to one thing. It’s too big. God, the true God, is too big to be in any one thing. That’s why the Trinity makes some sense there. Love, God, is so big it overflows and can’t be contained in one person. It also can’t be contained in any creature, even the human soul of Christ, which as the Catholic Encyclopedia notes above has only a finite degree of sanctifying grace.

 

[LilyM]

Lily, I thought you told me that you don’t support violence. Now you say a violent reaction would be “right.” Which is it?

I wasn’t, and am not, quite that black-and-white about it. It depends on exactly what behaviour ensues, and under what circumstances (ie what the behaviour is exactly that you wish to stop).

I do believe in a proportionate response, as the law does - a slap can justify a slap in return, murder or threat of murder can sometimes justify taking of life. Desecration of Our Lord’s body? Definitely more serious than a slap, don’t think it would justify a murder. Can’t give a general rule about it beyond that.

Thing is, and I’m sure you know this, there are about as many definitions of ‘violence’ as there are people who use the word, so I definitely couldn’t say without a more precise definition.

Do you mean the legal definition whereby virtually any verbal insult or physical contact at all is wrong and can be criminalised?

Do you mean that low-level verbal abuse or minor physical contact are ok, anything beyond that qualifies as violence?

Do you mean that verbal abuse or physical contact would have to be reasonably prolonged and/or extreme (eg a single slap isn’t really ‘violence’, a punch is)

Or do you mean only something more serious - that it’s only ‘violence’ if there’s really extremely abusive language or someone gets either threatened with a weapon of some kind or said weapon is actually used on them)??

 

[happymommy]

“I wasn’t saying anything else by anyone else was prejudiced. Some like you interpreted it that way,”

I didn’t think anyone called me prejudice I just don’t know why it has been discussed so much. It seemed off topic to me.

“As for me, as long as the Satanism you believe in preaches love, tolerance, and peace,”

Are you implying that I’m a Satanist or are you speaking of anyone that has written? I’m very much Catholic and have no plans of even reading any books on Satan, much less worshipping him! Just wanted to make that clear:thumbsup: