A
aileron
Guest
The parts not relying on or referring to religious matters.And what do you think of those relevant parts?
Excuse me here… You were the one to open the “philosophy and natural law” as justifications topic, not me. Please don’t be so defensive.Yes, she teaches infallibly on faith and morals, it’s not like she hid this fact from the rest of the world. And she most certainly won’t deny it when it comes to members of her own body.
Sometimes they do provide interesting arguments. Often times, they simply state their law or philosophical conclusion and appeal to authority.
It doesn’t give me a better understanding of the Church’s position if the premises for their arguments are justified with because we have standing to say so.Why is this an issue for you (authority) if all I asked was that you read the encyclicals to gain a greater understanding of the Church’s position
Can you cite the name of the one you have in mind?And she does argue using natural, philosophical, scientific evidence/ approach, one example of this is abortion. She does not just appeal to the Bible/Tradition to state her case.
That’s just it … I can’t. Other than perhaps abortion (and even that not by a wide margin), I don’t know a single moral issue that is controversial to society at large that lay Catholics themselves generally agree on. Many lay Catholics simply reject Vatican positions on birth control, IVF, stem cell research, capital punishment, what constitutes a just war, etc.Name me a topic to which you refer to that you state people so readily accept because they appeal to the Church’s authority, and then we can argue whether or not the Church uses reasons solely biblical/traditional for preaching as she does.
Actually, I don’t think most Catholics follow the Church in a lot of ways. I know lots of Catholics who reject central dogmas and still call themselves Roman Catholics. Most all of the Catholics I know reject many of the positions of the Vatican on controversial moral issues, and that small sample reflects what’s shown in polls too.Do you think that we blindly follow the Church and do not bother to understand why She holds the positions she does?
Why would this surprise me? Do you assume all atheists think religious people are incurious about the world around them? This is getting tiresome.You would be surprised by how much faithful Catholics (in the West) know concerning such topics as embryonic stem cell research, abortion, cloning, contraceptives . . . . (that goes for the Pope too! )
That’s fine. Even among its own laity the Vatican is failing to convince on issue after issue, so non-Catholics aren’t the only ones seeing the shortcomings in their arguments.Even if I were to state I agree with the Church on moral issues I do background work to understand her stance on issues. And there is more than enough information to back her up.