Hello, I'm an atheist

rjs1 · Dec 13, 2005

predator CA:

Theists: Goal in life is to seek happiness.
Athiests: Goal in life is to seek truth/fact.
… I did once believe in god,…

Predator,

I must completely disagree with your defintions of the true goals of Theists and Atheists.

I was brought up as an agnostic and became a committed atheist. I can assure you that atheists do NOT search for the truth. I spent years running away from God.

I did everything I could to ridicule theism and in particular Christianity and especially Catholicism. I considered it the refuge of fools and the illiterate and I was proud of my atheism.

It was only after my conversion to Christianity (an interesting, but rather long story) that I realised just how arrogant and stupid I had been. There is plenty of proof for not only the existence of God but for His direct intervention in the affairsof mankind. The Church is replete with documented accounts of miracles that cannot be explained by natural means.

However, far more important than any of that, is the fact that you can come to know God personally. He can become so real to you that you will wonder why you ever doubted His existence.

Forget your previous attendance at church. Obviously something was seriously wrong, either on your side or on the partcular parish’s side, or you would not have lost whatever little faith you then had.
Believe me if you do turn to Jesus and ask Him to make Himself known to you - He will.

But it is not completely unconditional and there’s the rub! God expects your repentance and obedience and THAT is what holds most atheists back in the end. As I former atheist I know the incredible power human pride. We do not want to give in to anybody - not even God. After all it was pride that caused the first sin, it was pride that caused the Archangel Lucifer to try and position himself above God and get thrown out of Heaven. Pride is a powerful force and very difficult to overcome. But if you can make that step Jesus will meet you far more than half-way. He is like the father of the Prodigal Son. He will run to meet you.

I won’t bother trying to outline all the logical reasons for believing in God because I know as a former atheist that I really was not interested in them. Why? Because deep down it was my pride that was making me put myself first and even beginning to believe that there might be a God would have got in the way of that.

rayne89 · Dec 13, 2005

Hi and welcome.

My husband used to be an atheist so I know something about where you’re coming from.Yes, the religious people need a crutch to get by, they need to believe someone else is in charge. They’re beliefs come from emotionalism while atheist beliefs (or lack of belief I should say) comes from logic. Sound about right?

There are many brilliant minds who are theists. God is not just for the uneducated and the ignorant as many atheists seem to believe.

A true Catholic can not say do whatever makes you happy by the way. If we want to deal with facts, the Catholic church teaches it is the one true Church -sounds pompous- but with further study you’d realize it’s not.

As far as goals, for myself as a Catholic, my goal is to always seek the truth. There are some Christian denominations that believe you should go to many churches until you find one your comfortable with, one that “suits you”.This is not seeking truth, this creating your own “truth” and seeking out people who agree with you.

I was raised a nominal Catholic and really fell away from the church in my early adult years. When I considered returning to the church I read and read many books about the faith. I am a skeptic by nature, I needed more then just “because that’s what the church teaches”. We find God through faith and reason. The Bible is full of references to the truth and and how it important to seek truth.

But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. John 3:21
But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him.
God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth."
John 4:23-24
Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples,
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32
So Pilate said to him, “Then you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say I am a king. For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37
The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
While claiming to be wise, they became fools
Romans 1:18-22
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. Tim 3:15

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Catholics are commanded to seek the truth. You as an atheist and I as a Catholic have different ideas about what that truth is.

Tim_Hayes · Dec 13, 2005

Predator, all you have done is reveal to me that you are not trully an athiest. You see, you think it would be wrong of me to bring up my kids to steal, cheat etc, the problem with that thinking is that you are placing a moral, right or wrong slant on such teaching, but don’t you understand, If you take away a higher law and we have no God then all law is only relevent to the individual and there is no such thing as right or wrong, it can’t be wrong to steal and cheat, it can’t be wrong to be nice either, it just means that I can do whatever I like

We as humans have a tendency to be a little greedy in all things, so if someone has somehting I want I can take it, even if it means killing etc, why becasue it cannot be wrong, yes a society we live in could say we will lock you up if we catch you, but then part of the reason people are caught is becasue of the guilt/remorse factor which impacts upon their ability to carry out the decision making process.

You see most people who profess to be athiests actually want laws etc to protect them, not society as such, because they know that moral values is the only thngs between us and the animal kingdom and most athiests don’t want to end up as food.

You see most people won’t take things to their logical conclusion, have a debate with an abortionist and you will see it so clearly, 99% of abortion believers will tell you upfront that it should be a personal choice etc, yet you will find that if you asked the same person whether it is acceptable to pull a 39 week oldbaby partially out of the womb and butcher it, they would say it is not, suddenly they want to draw a line, yet the line is based purely on their own whim, amzing isn’t, butchering babies is all right up to a point.

You see Predator, you can’t be critical of anyone if your an athiest and yet att he same time you can be critical, why becasue there is no right or wrong, ONLY WHAT I WANT TO DO.

Tim_Hayes · Dec 13, 2005

pREDATOR QUOTE

I really can’t believe “Tim Hayes” said that he would teach his kids to steal and be streat smart if they found out god didn’t exist. What kind of a person are you? That is sad.

Your now making ajudgement call of right and wrong, yet as an athiest you have to accept the basic premise that there is no objective right and wrong and any right or wrong agreed to is only agreed to by those who agee to for their particular benefit, when they see fit to follow it.

How can you an athiest judge me, judgement requires a standard, yet as an atheist you have to admit that any standard is only illusionary and is not really valid.

Predator, sometimes we wish God did not exist or try to make out good reasons for why he does not exist (mostly to justify out actions)

Hey hedge your bets, if God does exit and you convert, then a happy ending awaits you, if you covert and there is no God then what the hell does it matter what you and I did with our life, if you don’t convert and God does exist then maybe a bad ending awaits you. You see you place relevence upon your life, yet if God does not exist, then truly the only relevence your life has is to yourself.

Paris_Blues · Dec 13, 2005

predator CA:

Theists: Goal in life is to seek happiness. They want to have something to strive for, but they want someone, something always there watching over them to give them help, to give them peace, or even just someone to talk to when times get rough.

Athiests: Goal in life is to seek truth/fact. They want to be happy, but believe the most effective and honest way to achieve this is to seek out and except the facts of the situation. They simply do not accept made up answers to the things we do not know, accepting that we haven’t yet discovered the truth, or perhaps never will.

Hi PredatorCA,

We have a former atheist in our RCIA group and is so awestruck by the Truth found in the Catholic Church.

Before finding my way home to the Catholic Church, I WAS seeking for truth! Not that I was an atheist…I did believe in God and all that but there was something more that I was searching for but never could find it. It’s like a deep void.

I remember after I was baptized in a Protestant church, that void grew bigger and deeper and could not find anything to fill it - and even at that point, I didn’t know God could fill it! How lame was I?

After seeing Mel Gibson’s The Passion, I gave my life over to Christ and even after that, the void grew weaker but something was still missing. I had this terrible longing for truth again.

Where could I find that truth? When? How?

I prayed a lot trying to find the truth! Then came the situation where I should know which denomination to join? Catholic or Protestant? I suddenly had this urge to become a Catholic even though I knew nothing about the religion! LOL!! I did some painful research between the two and it seemed at that point that neither one had full truth. WHAT IS TRUTH? I know, I sounded like Pilate!

It’s a long story but to make it short, I’ll just say that I found the TRUTH in the CC!! That void was now almost full! I found TRUTH!!

You said that atheists goal in life is to seek truth/fact. Well my friend, the reason why their goal is that is because they REALLY ARE searching for the need of God but don’t know it! They want happiness? Only God can give you happiness! That’s a proven fact right there.

If you want that void to be full, an opened heart to God is the first step and when you do that, I guarantee He will fill it until you overflow with joy!

Peace my friend!!

Athrond · Dec 13, 2005

In Reply to Tim post above:

How do you explain the billions of non-christians that seem to have rules of right and wrong outside of “Gods word” ? It seems to me that this would be clear evidence of the subjectivity of morals, no? Even in cultures that have been totaly isolated from the christian faith there seems to excist some form of moral code. Often they are different from “ours”.

Sincerely
aThrond

Filius_Prodigus · Dec 13, 2005

Athrond:

In Reply to Tim post above:

How do you explain the billions of non-christians that seem to have rules of right and wrong outside of “Gods word” ? It seems to me that this would be clear evidence of the subjectivity of morals, no? Even in cultures that have been totaly isolated from the christian faith there seems to excist some form of moral code. Often they are different from “ours”.

Sincerely
aThrond

This is an easy one:
A/ If God exists and He decrees on human morality in His love for humankind, morals are not subjective.

BTW: Hi, I’m Filius Prodigus, ex-Atheist (15 years an Atheist). God bless you as He has blessed me with His holy light in His mercy, this small and unworthy 33 year-old apostate and blasphemer.

Filius_Prodigus · Dec 13, 2005

rayne89:

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Catholics are commanded to seek the truth. You as an atheist and I as a Catholic have different ideas about what that truth is.
Catholics and their Church have shown throughout the ages a sincere interest in knowledge (i.e. true knowledge, of course, thus, the truth) both heavenly and earthly. Louis Pateur, Gregor Mendel (German monk), Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz, are only few examples.

Some writers have expressed surprise that Catholic scientists were allowed to take part in the experiments, e.g. that Bonfioli, domestic prelate to Pius VI assisted Guglielmini in measuring the impressions of the balls on the plate of wax, or that Secchi demonstrated the rotation of the earth in Rome “before all the people” (Wolf, “Handbuch”, I, Zurich, 1890, no. 262 c). We must remember, however, that what was condemned in a former age was not the experiment but a then gratuitous assertion.

Click to expand...

newadvent.org/cathen/15183a.htm

Athrond · Dec 13, 2005

Filius Prodigus:

This is an easy one:
A/ If God exists and He decrees on human morality in His love for humankind, morals are not subjective.

But most of the earths population doesn’t believe in God. They don’t read the bible, and may not even know if christians exist at all. How do you account for their morals? They certainly don’t come from God?

And what about moral codes that aren’t in the bible? Or for that matter laws that are in the bible, but noone follows like stoning disobedient children and such? Haven’t we made our OWN opinion that it is imoral to do such things?

And that’s a rather large IF you got there, but that’s another discussion!

mlchance · Dec 13, 2005

Athrond:

But most of the earths population doesn’t believe in God.

Proof, please.

– Mark L. Chance.

Filius_Prodigus · Dec 13, 2005

Athrond:

But most of the earths population doesn’t believe in God. They don’t read the bible, and may not even know if christians exist at all. How do you account for their morals? They certainly don’t come from God?

You are right. But there are right morals and there are wrong morals. For example: A Marxist believes that feeding the proletariat is ok, but killing the owners of capital is also is ok. Those are wrong morals.

Athrond:

Haven’t we made our OWN opinion that it is imoral to do such things?

Again, IF there is a God and He is involved in human morality by His love, our opinion is null and void on matters of moral right and wrong.

Remember this is an ‘if…then’ statement.

Filius_Prodigus · Dec 13, 2005

mlchance:

Originally Posted by Athrond
But most of the earths population doesn’t believe in God.

Click to expand...

Proof, please.

– Mark L. Chance.

Actually there is proof against Athrond’s assertion. See this:
adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious

hurst · Dec 13, 2005

rjs1:

Believe me if you do turn to Jesus and ask Him to make Himself known to you - He will.

But it is not completely unconditional and there’s the rub! God expects your repentance and obedience and THAT is what holds most atheists back in the end. … But if you can make that step Jesus will meet you far more than half-way. He is like the father of the Prodigal Son. He will run to meet you.

Wow, that was a great testimonial - and so true. Thanks be to God for your act of humility. Welcome to the household of God! And may you persevere to the end!

hurst

hurst · Dec 13, 2005

Filius Prodigus:

BTW: Hi, I’m Filius Prodigus, ex-Atheist (15 years an Atheist). God bless you as He has blessed me with His holy light in His mercy, this small and unworthy 33 year-old apostate and blasphemer.

Thanks be to God for His Mercy! Welcome! May you persevere to the end!

hurst

AndyF · Dec 13, 2005

Predator CA:

Code:

OK , no made up answers, just pure logic and common sense and hard facts.

 Athiests: Goal in life is to seek truth/fact. .

No. A true atheist believes that existentialism IS true unequivocally, and he is only concerned with the here and now and the finite future. You are projecting your view has the common view, when it isn't. In fact, you would not be welcome as an atheist either, as you would be viewed as a fence sitter because of your uncertainty. Any debate you initiate will be based on your uncertainty, and you can not advance an argument for atheism based on what you feel is uncertain. 

 So, since this is your *seeking* standpoint, why don't you simply say you are uncertain, say your not an *anything* yet, then you would be honest with yourself. 

  If you still agree to the atheist stance, then in every place you debate, the debaters will expect you to apply your beliefs in your reasoning and logic, and s*eeking truth*, will negate any argument. As a true atheist, accepting you live for the here and now,  and what you do and think is purposeless other than for now and the finite future, why would you waste your time, when every minute is precious.? Even if you were to gain some converts, the time and energy is wasted in the exercise to convince others that they are wasting their time. If you believe every person is destined to exercise pointless activity, why would you concern yourself that others exercise it, as they would be doing the same as you.?

   But the Catholic knows the real reason for the debates. The true atheist would stay well away from them, not wasting a minute of his time. Orgies,sunshine,sensual stimulation are what is important, might just as well fornicate as get married, the children doomed to his destiny, IF they make it through the  atheist murderers who won't have to pay either. After all, there is no payment for wrong doing, God can be blasphemed without punishment, debating anything is a waste of time, invoking God's help when life is threatened is strictly taboo and is considered atheistic heresy. Just a comfortable painless extinction awaits..... We hope.

   The truth is, the pseudo-atheist debates because of the thought that someone actually has the audacity to believe in an afterlife, and that is too much to bare. We can't have someone living beyond ourselves, can we. But that concern is also pointless isn't it? I mean who cares what anyone else thinks? That gamble of gamble, get it wrong and we have him standing before the Creator wanting to know why he blasphemed and sinned without repentance, why he wasn't grateful for that sunshine, the children,etc. Get it right and a nice cushy extinction remains.

    I'd be nervous too, and I would make a lousy atheist, has I'm not that brave, but a real atheism calls for a foolhardy

courageousness, some would say suicidal tendency. But for the one who takes on the Faith, he gains everything, and man still benefits, even the atheists and pseudo-atheists. You have possibly something to gain by Faith, nothing with extinction.
Andy

Filius_Prodigus · Dec 13, 2005

hurst:

Thanks be to God for His Mercy! Welcome! May you persevere to the end!

hurst

Thank you. God bless.

desire_the_end · Dec 13, 2005

I used to be atheist/agnostic and now I actually feel at home in the universe. I wish you the same. Have a merry holiday.
lovetony

BlindSheep · Dec 13, 2005

predator CA:

This is why I have a problem with religion. This is incredible! The world is the way it is. If there is a god or not, you should live a good life, it’s just the moral and reasonable thing to do.

That’s why I think the world is better off without religion. People are “short-changing” themselves when they don’t trust that they will be morally responsible without someone judging them.

If everyone excepted that we can be good people and live together peacefully without god, the world would be a better place. When good things happen, we shouldn’t thank God, we should simply appreciate that they happened, and thank ourselves for doing a good job.

I really can’t believe “Tim Hayes” said that he would teach his kids to steal and be streat smart if they found out god didn’t exist. What kind of a person are you? That is sad.

I just want to finish by reminding everyone, “Life is what we make of it.”

I think you may well be a very nice person; however, your moral values do not have their root in your atheism. You told us yourself you used to be Christian; is it not possible that you retain some vestiges of the Christian worldview, such as your moral values? Furthermore, one must not underestimate the motivation of an atheist to “be good” in order to prove their point: that it is possible to be good without religion.
A better test would be to look at a second-generation atheist. Did the atheist parents successfully teach their children to be good citizens and moral people? Or look at an entirely atheist society, and see how morals hold up over time, preferably over several generations. Looking at the behavior of a single individual is deceptive, for the reasons I mentioned.

Catholico · Dec 13, 2005

Tim Hayes:

Predator, all you have done is reveal to me that you are not trully an athiest. You see, you think it would be wrong of me to bring up my kids to steal, cheat etc, the problem with that thinking is that you are placing a moral, right or wrong slant on such teaching, but don’t you understand, If you take away a higher law and we have no God then all law is only relevent to the individual and there is no such thing as right or wrong, it can’t be wrong to steal and cheat, it can’t be wrong to be nice either, it just means that I can do whatever I like

We as humans have a tendency to be a little greedy in all things, so if someone has somehting I want I can take it, even if it means killing etc, why becasue it cannot be wrong, yes a society we live in could say we will lock you up if we catch you, but then part of the reason people are caught is becasue of the guilt/remorse factor which impacts upon their ability to carry out the decision making process.

You see most people who profess to be athiests actually want laws etc to protect them, not society as such, because they know that moral values is the only thngs between us and the animal kingdom and most athiests don’t want to end up as food.

You see most people won’t take things to their logical conclusion, have a debate with an abortionist and you will see it so clearly, 99% of abortion believers will tell you upfront that it should be a personal choice etc, yet you will find that if you asked the same person whether it is acceptable to pull a 39 week oldbaby partially out of the womb and butcher it, they would say it is not, suddenly they want to draw a line, yet the line is based purely on their own whim, amzing isn’t, butchering babies is all right up to a point.

You see Predator, you can’t be critical of anyone if your an athiest and yet att he same time you can be critical, why becasue there is no right or wrong, ONLY WHAT I WANT TO DO.

I can only say that the guilt you speak of that comes from divine retribution can be replaced with the guilt from government retribution for crimes committed, or guilt from lying to or cheating people we like or love. Love and charity is open to both theists and atheists. It doesn’t depend on God. This love extends to the people around us and to the world itself and exists whether or not there is a God. Societies have developed rules to punish those who are hateful and insane. If you say that the first crack out of the box you would cheat and steal and teach your kids to do so, it only shows how deeply disturbed you are as an individual. If you really feel this you need to seek help immediately from a priest or mental health professional. If you are doing it just to kick sand in an unbelievers face, as I suspect you are, you are not showing enough respect for people who are just as ethical as any believer.

Catholico

Athrond · Dec 13, 2005

mlchance:

Proof, please.

– Mark L. Chance.

Ok pardon me for stealing the link from someone else from above

:

adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Cristians total out at 2.1 billion upper, wich is less than 50% of the world population, and many more than i would have guessed.

Anyway, the point is ther are MANY MANY non christians, even non “abrahamic” theists wich was my point.

Athrond

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