HELLO - It's Been A While... Bridging the Gaps

[Singinbeauty]

Hello All,
It has been a LONG while since I have been here but I am back - for now… Don’t know if any of y’all will know me but I am here to help answer / ask questions while try to bridge a gap of understanding between us non-catholics and catholics.

I feel with a bit of unity we can become such a powerhouse the world has never seen and Christ’s light could shine that much brighter. But there are some big canyons that some find hard to bridge.

Do any of you ever think it will be possible to bridge the gaps?

 

[JackVk]

Of course. “Nothing will be impossible with God”.

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me”

 

[the_phoenix]

I remember you, Singinbeauty.

Welcome back.

 

[cooterhein]

Do any of you ever think it will be possible to bridge the gaps?

We will have bridged the gaps sufficiently when neither group feels that they must convert the other. Right now, some non-Catholics still feel that Catholics usually need to be converted. But most non-Catholics don’t feel that way, and I think that’s steadily improving as more non-Catholics get familiar with ancient Christianity. Higher education at Christian colleges is taking us in a better direction.

On the other hand, many Catholics (on this forum, anyway) still feel that they have to convert non-Catholics, and the only way to achieve an acceptable level of unity is if non-Catholics become Catholics. At that time (and only at that time), they won’t feel like they have to convert people like us. Catholic leadership (including scholars, professors, etc.) are moving in a more positive direction than they once were, but the progress is painfully slow and we don’t really have a common destination in mind.

The good news is that most Catholics aren’t like that. The bad news is that you’re talking to a select group of people that are committed to making sure more Catholics are like that.

 

[John7]

Hello

hi

 

[Dokimas]

Hello All,
It has been a LONG while since I have been here but I am back - for now… Don’t know if any of y’all will know me but I am here to help answer / ask questions while try to bridge a gap of understanding between us non-catholics and catholics.

I feel with a bit of unity we can become such a powerhouse the world has never seen and Christ’s light could shine that much brighter. But there are some big canyons that some find hard to bridge.

Do any of you ever think it will be possible to bridge the gaps?

I sure hope so for Jesus said (Joh 13:35) “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

My thinking is that as long as we tell each other that ‘you are incomplete because you don’t see things the way I do,’ will be a barrier to your desire.

 

[rinnie]

Hello All,
It has been a LONG while since I have been here but I am back - for now… Don’t know if any of y’all will know me but I am here to help answer / ask questions while try to bridge a gap of understanding between us non-catholics and catholics.

I feel with a bit of unity we can become such a powerhouse the world has never seen and Christ’s light could shine that much brighter. But there are some big canyons that some find hard to bridge.

Do any of you ever think it will be possible to bridge the gaps?

Welcome back. I don’t know when but I do know someday we will all become one in Christ again. I sometimes think it will be when he comes again in glory.

The thing that we must do is follow the Church and thats hard for even us Catholic’s to do. So I can understand how NC could find it hard.

To bridge the gap between us here on earth today can be done by one thing for sure.

Prayer Prayer Prayer.

 

[benidict]

Hello All,
It has been a LONG while since I have been here but I am back - for now… Don’t know if any of y’all will know me but I am here to help answer / ask questions while try to bridge a gap of understanding between us non-catholics and catholics.

I feel with a bit of unity we can become such a powerhouse the world has never seen and Christ’s light could shine that much brighter. But there are some big canyons that some find hard to bridge.

Do any of you ever think it will be possible to bridge the gaps?

hi. with the Anglicans, it already is happening. i believe given time, the Lutheran/Catholic split will be healed. as well as the Orthodox. however, i think there will never be unity with the vast majority who hate Rome, and the Catholic Church. i dont believe its neccessary for us to heal any rifts with them. but the afore mentioned groups…i think they are very important. just a theory on my part. and ill throw one more out to you. that i will do in a p.m. because i dont want to offend any of my bretheren from a very special group. youll understand when i write you. Peace and prayers for you.

 

[Roy5]

I think that the gap can be bridged, but only if Catholicism adopts more of a ‘big tent’ position. I know this will offend most CAF posters, but that is what I believe.

 The problem is in two main realms.

 Theological. There are simply too many doctrines which Catholics must believe that most others simply cannot honestly accept. They involved these five areas in particular:

(1) papal authority and infallibility; (2) dogma re Mary, especially Immaculate Conception, Assumption and sinless life; (3) transubstantiation; (4) confession to a priest; (4) saint emphasis, miracles regarding, etc.

  Moral and other issues. (1) celibate and all-male priesthood. (2) ban on artificial birth control. (3) condemnation of gay lifestyle. (4) annulment requirement, no divorce; (4) lack of democracy in the wider church.

  The solution? A broad Christian church which permits individual members to have more freedom of belief. If a person cannot, for example, believe that Mary lived a sinless life, that should be an option. If a person believes that artificial birth control is okay between married couples who already have several children, that should be an option.

  It has nothing to do with hatred of the Church. It involves honest difference of opinion by - often - equally informed, God-loving, Christ-serving Christians. When people cannot in good conscience believe what they find unbelievable, what are they supposed to do? We live in an age when millions of people read widely, think and evaluate seriously, and must be free to come to their own conclusions as long as they profess a simple, meaningful faith in God and a desire to serve God faithfully. I believe that Christ taught this through the parable of the Good Samaritan (how can I obtain eternal life?) and in Matt. 25:31-46.

 

[benidict]

I think that the gap can be bridged, but only if Catholicism adopts more of a ‘big tent’ position. I know this will offend most CAF posters, but that is what I believe.

 The problem is in two main realms.

 Theological. There are simply too many doctrines which Catholics must believe that most others simply cannot honestly accept. They involved these five areas in particular:

(1) papal authority and infallibility; (2) dogma re Mary, especially Immaculate Conception, Assumption and sinless life; (3) transubstantiation; (4) confession to a priest; (4) saint emphasis, miracles regarding, etc.

  Moral and other issues. (1) celibate and all-male priesthood. (2) ban on artificial birth control. (3) condemnation of gay lifestyle. (4) annulment requirement, no divorce; (4) lack of democracy in the wider church.

  The solution? A broad Christian church which permits individual members to have more freedom of belief. If a person cannot, for example, believe that Mary lived a sinless life, that should be an option. If a person believes that artificial birth control is okay between married couples who already have several children, that should be an option.

  It has nothing to do with hatred of the Church. It involves honest difference of opinion by - often - equally informed, God-loving, Christ-serving Christians. When people cannot in good conscience believe what they find unbelievable, what are they supposed to do? We live in an age when millions of people read widely, think and evaluate seriously, and must be free to come to their own conclusions as long as they profess a simple, meaningful faith in God and a desire to serve God faithfully. I believe that Christ taught this through the parable of the Good Samaritan (how can I obtain eternal life?) and in Matt. 25:31-46.

sorry my friend. i for one, am not offended. but Christ came to set up a kingdom. a Theocracy if you will. its not a democracy. either there is an ultimate truth or there is not. peace

 

[LDNCatholic]

I think that the gap can be bridged, but only if Catholicism adopts more of a ‘big tent’ position. I know this will offend most CAF posters, but that is what I believe.

 The problem is in two main realms.

 Theological. There are simply too many doctrines which Catholics must believe that most others simply cannot honestly accept. They involved these five areas in particular:

(1) papal authority and infallibility; (2) dogma re Mary, especially Immaculate Conception, Assumption and sinless life; (3) transubstantiation; (4) confession to a priest; (4) saint emphasis, miracles regarding, etc.

  Moral and other issues. (1) celibate and all-male priesthood. (2) ban on artificial birth control. (3) condemnation of gay lifestyle. (4) annulment requirement, no divorce; (4) lack of democracy in the wider church.

  The solution? A broad Christian church which permits individual members to have more freedom of belief. If a person cannot, for example, believe that Mary lived a sinless life, that should be an option. If a person believes that artificial birth control is okay between married couples who already have several children, that should be an option.

  It has nothing to do with hatred of the Church. It involves honest difference of opinion by - often - equally informed, God-loving, Christ-serving Christians. When people cannot in good conscience believe what they find unbelievable, what are they supposed to do? We live in an age when millions of people read widely, think and evaluate seriously, and must be free to come to their own conclusions as long as they profess a simple, meaningful faith in God and a desire to serve God faithfully. I believe that Christ taught this through the parable of the Good Samaritan (how can I obtain eternal life?) and in Matt. 25:31-46.

Not offended. Just find the idea nonsensical. We should bridge the gap by throwing out nearly all of our central beliefs?

Should we also give the nod for abortion?

What about euthanasia?

Should we accommodate ‘Christians’ who do not accept Christ’s Divinity?

 

[Roy5]

I don’t plan to go over everything again, and I knew, of course, that my personal view would be considered ridiculous by those who believe that the full truth resides only in the Catholic Church.

There are many of us - I among them - who have both Catholic and Protestant antecedents. We would like to see Christians live in greater harmony and mutual respect, and this tribal bitterness which I find among many here on CAF is troublesome. We do not feel that doctrinal purity is the basic core of Christianity. Christ told us to love God and one another, and that is where it's at. 

So, why can't we have greater freedom when it comes to doctrine? I, for example, find nothing in scripture (or even tradition) that insists that Mary lived a sinless life. Scripture says clearly that we all have sinned. So, I guess I must always be considered a poor Catholic - or none at all. I find this rigid position alienating, and a recent article in Commonweal magazine told how so many well-educated, tolerant Catholics are being forced to leave Catholicism because they can not longer honestly accept all of its many, many doctrines. 

 I have read the Church Fathers, most of whom were brilliant for their age, but the ignorance and superstition during their time misled them in so much of what they said. Why should we look to them for guidance? Besides, there were a host of other church fathers who were cast aside by the church as heretics. Catholicism is too committed to the ancient and medieval church when we live in the 21st century. 

 But God bless everybody. The key to Christianity is not creeds but love. Faith, hope, love, these three abide, and the greatest of these is love. I Cor. 13

 

[rinnie]

I think that the gap can be bridged, but only if Catholicism adopts more of a ‘big tent’ position. I know this will offend most CAF posters, but that is what I believe.

 The problem is in two main realms.

 Theological. There are simply too many doctrines which Catholics must believe that most others simply cannot honestly accept. They involved these five areas in particular:

(1) papal authority and infallibility; (2) dogma re Mary, especially Immaculate Conception, Assumption and sinless life; (3) transubstantiation; (4) confession to a priest; (4) saint emphasis, miracles regarding, etc.

  Moral and other issues. (1) celibate and all-male priesthood. (2) ban on artificial birth control. (3) condemnation of gay lifestyle. (4) annulment requirement, no divorce; (4) lack of democracy in the wider church.

  The solution? A broad Christian church which permits individual members to have more freedom of belief. If a person cannot, for example, believe that Mary lived a sinless life, that should be an option. If a person believes that artificial birth control is okay between married couples who already have several children, that should be an option.

  It has nothing to do with hatred of the Church. It involves honest difference of opinion by - often - equally informed, God-loving, Christ-serving Christians. When people cannot in good conscience believe what they find unbelievable, what are they supposed to do? We live in an age when millions of people read widely, think and evaluate seriously, and must be free to come to their own conclusions as long as they profess a simple, meaningful faith in God and a desire to serve God faithfully. I believe that Christ taught this through the parable of the Good Samaritan (how can I obtain eternal life?) and in Matt. 25:31-46.

Yes you are right, but is it not difference of ONES OPINION that separated the Church in the first place.

It all seems to go back to one thing, what our opinion is and what God taught. But I am curious why not throw out the whole bible then if you want the Church to throw out like 90% of the teaching’s you described.

And another thing that has me confused how can you be Christ-serving Christians if you do not obey his commandments?

And where in Matt 25:31-46 have to do with throwing out the teaching’s of the church and just having a desire to serve God faithfully will give you eternal life in Christ.

And why not throw out Baptism, and the rest of the Sacraments also, I mean you feel the perfect Church is not the one that Christ established right? You want one with more options.

Then why even have Baptism then? Maybe someone does not like you agree with that teaching of the Church then right?

 

[benidict]

I don’t plan to go over everything again, and I knew, of course, that my personal view would be considered ridiculous by those who believe that the full truth resides only in the Catholic Church.

There are many of us - I among them - who have both Catholic and Protestant antecedents. We would like to see Christians live in greater harmony and mutual respect, and this tribal bitterness which I find among many here on CAF is troublesome. We do not feel that doctrinal purity is the basic core of Christianity. Christ told us to love God and one another, and that is where it's at. 

So, why can't we have greater freedom when it comes to doctrine? I, for example, find nothing in scripture (or even tradition) that insists that Mary lived a sinless life. Scripture says clearly that we all have sinned. So, I guess I must always be considered a poor Catholic - or none at all. I find this rigid position alienating, and a recent article in Commonweal magazine told how so many well-educated, tolerant Catholics are being forced to leave Catholicism because they can not longer honestly accept all of its many, many doctrines. 

 I have read the Church Fathers, most of whom were brilliant for their age, but the ignorance and superstition during their time misled them in so much of what they said. Why should we look to them for guidance? Besides, there were a host of other church fathers who were cast aside by the church as heretics. Catholicism is too committed to the ancient and medieval church when we live in the 21st century. 

 But God bless everybody. The key to Christianity is not creeds but love. Faith, hope, love, these three abide, and the greatest of these is love. I Cor. 13

so your definition of Love is to just let every one do what they want? no thanks. if i love my brother/sister, i will let them know if they are on a path of self destruction. there are many of us also, who have escaped from the sea of confusion which is protestantism, and have no desire to go back. i have a great idea. how bout the protestants get more in line with Rome? how bout they take a good hard look at john 6 and admit that Jesus is talking literally here. how bout they take a good hard look at the o.t. and see how the Blessed Mother is typified in the ark of the covenant, and how she is the fullfillment of it. etc. etc. and no, we will not back down on morals and dogma. to do so, would be to become…well protestant. no thanks my friend. i think i will pass. Peace and prayers for you. by the way. are you sure it was the Church Fathers who were misguided?

 

[rinnie]

I don’t plan to go over everything again, and I knew, of course, that my personal view would be considered ridiculous by those who believe that the full truth resides only in the Catholic Church.

There are many of us - I among them - who have both Catholic and Protestant antecedents. We would like to see Christians live in greater harmony and mutual respect, and this tribal bitterness which I find among many here on CAF is troublesome. We do not feel that doctrinal purity is the basic core of Christianity. Christ told us to love God and one another, and that is where it's at. 

So, why can't we have greater freedom when it comes to doctrine? I, for example, find nothing in scripture (or even tradition) that insists that Mary lived a sinless life. Scripture says clearly that we all have sinned. So, I guess I must always be considered a poor Catholic - or none at all. I find this rigid position alienating, and a recent article in Commonweal magazine told how so many well-educated, tolerant Catholics are being forced to leave Catholicism because they can not longer honestly accept all of its many, many doctrines. 

 I have read the Church Fathers, most of whom were brilliant for their age, but the ignorance and superstition during their time misled them in so much of what they said. Why should we look to them for guidance? Besides, there were a host of other church fathers who were cast aside by the church as heretics. Catholicism is too committed to the ancient and medieval church when we live in the 21st century. 

 But God bless everybody. The key to Christianity is not creeds but love. Faith, hope, love, these three abide, and the greatest of these is love. I Cor. 13

Well now that you asked I must answer some of your questions, maybe you can answer some of mine also.

Now you say that the KEY to Christianity is not Creeds right. So what about the Apostles Creed should we throw it out?

And are there just certain Church Fathers they you feel are ignorant or just a few.

And why should we look for them for guidance? Well could it possibly be because we are commanded to in the bible.

And I must say what about the Key to eternal life. Is that not more important. I mean faith hope and Love are a requirement for sure, but what about Baptism, repentance for sins, the Holy Eucharist. Do you suggest that we can have eternal life in Christ with only Love faith and hope?

 

[rinnie]

I don’t plan to go over everything again, and I knew, of course, that my personal view would be considered ridiculous by those who believe that the full truth resides only in the Catholic Church.

There are many of us - I among them - who have both Catholic and Protestant antecedents. We would like to see Christians live in greater harmony and mutual respect, and this tribal bitterness which I find among many here on CAF is troublesome. We do not feel that doctrinal purity is the basic core of Christianity. Christ told us to love God and one another, and that is where it's at. 

So, why can't we have greater freedom when it comes to doctrine? I, for example, find nothing in scripture (or even tradition) that insists that Mary lived a sinless life. Scripture says clearly that we all have sinned. So, I guess I must always be considered a poor Catholic - or none at all. I find this rigid position alienating, and a recent article in Commonweal magazine told how so many well-educated, tolerant Catholics are being forced to leave Catholicism because they can not longer honestly accept all of its many, many doctrines. 

 I have read the Church Fathers, most of whom were brilliant for their age, but the ignorance and superstition during their time misled them in so much of what they said. Why should we look to them for guidance? Besides, there were a host of other church fathers who were cast aside by the church as heretics. Catholicism is too committed to the ancient and medieval church when we live in the 21st century. 

 But God bless everybody. The key to Christianity is not creeds but love. Faith, hope, love, these three abide, and the greatest of these is love. I Cor. 13

Oh by the way I do agree with you through, 100% on what you said about your personal view

 

[benidict]

ahhhh. the same people who were burning their underwear, (and their draft cards) and screaming freedom back in the 60s are the same ones putting us in bondage, and giving us these “open minded” leftist views we see today. i personally dont think they are ridiculous, i see them as dangerous. they have taken too much ground already. Peace

 

[rinnie]

I sure hope so for Jesus said (Joh 13:35) “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

My thinking is that as long as we tell each other that ‘you are incomplete because you don’t see things the way I do,’ will be a barrier to your desire.

I agree, that is why we must see things as Christ taught, not as I do, or you do. That is why Jesus left us the Living Church the CC.

Remember when Saul was persecuting the Catholic Church, Jesus said Saul Saul why are you persecuting ME, Saul said who are you and Jesus said it is Me JESUS the one you are persecuting.

Jesus and the Catholic Church are ONE. Jesus is the CC the living Christ. He is here alive and well through the Power of the Holy Spirit still leading us today the same as yesterday.

Jesus promised us the gates of hades will not prevail over the CC. Jesus promised us he will not leave us orphans.

Jesus said to Peter I will give you the KEYS to the KINGDOM. THey are still held today in the hands of the Pope. History has showed that they have been passed down from God.

Why should we listen to the Pope? How about this one. To you I leave the KEYS to the KINGDOM what you bind on earth is BOUND in heaven. That to me is reason enough.

You either believe in these words and believe that Jesus Christ had the power from God to pass this power on, or you do not accept his power given to him from God at all.

Jesus promised us at the day of Pentecost that the Holy Spriit would overshadow the Church and lead us to eternal life by the Church THRU the Church by the Holy Spirit!

Jesus Christ is the Catholic Church still hear as he promised leading us by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[benidict]

I agree, that is why we must see things as Christ taught, not as I do, or you do. That is why Jesus left us the Living Church the CC.

Remember when Saul was persecuting the Catholic Church, Jesus said Saul Saul why are you persecuting ME, Saul said who are you and Jesus said it is Me JESUS the one you are persecuting.

Jesus and the Catholic Church are ONE. Jesus is the CC the living Christ. He is here alive and well through the Power of the Holy Spirit still leading us today the same as yesterday.

Jesus promised us the gates of hades will not prevail over the CC. Jesus promised us he will not leave us orphans.

Jesus said to Peter I will give you the KEYS to the KINGDOM. THey are still held today in the hands of the Pope. History has showed that they have been passed down from God.

Why should we listen to the Pope? How about this one. To you I leave the KEYS to the KINGDOM what you bind on earth is BOUND in heaven. That to me is reason enough.

You either believe in these words and believe that Jesus Christ had the power from God to pass this power on, or you do not accept his power given to him from God at all.

Jesus promised us at the day of Pentecost that the Holy Spriit would overshadow the Church and lead us to eternal life by the Church THRU the Church by the Holy Spirit!

Jesus Christ is the Catholic Church still hear as he promised leading us by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

yes! isnt it supposed to be us, that are conformed to the image of Christ, and to his Church that he set up, and not Christ and his Church comformed to our wants and whims?? God bless you and yours Rinnie

 

[Roy5]

A brief follow-up

1. Just what did God teach us in scripture? Difficult to understand sometimes. Do we go along with such ‘commandments’ as found in Ex. 21:17 or Ex. 22:18, 20? If not, why do we give such emphasis to Ex. 20? I find that few Christians even follow the quite specific commandments of Christ in such passages as Matt. 5:38-42. But when it comes to divorce, well, those words of Jesus must be followed! Oh, and we receive ashes on our foreheads on Ash Wednesday despite Matt. 6:16-18. It’s confusing, isn’t it? That’s why I think we should permit considerable leeway in some areas and respect individual opinion rather than insist upon a fundamentalist approach to some scripture but not to others.

2. The Apostles Creed. Certainly not written by apostles. Do we all believe in the physical resurrection of our bodies? I'm not sure I do. But that's how that creed ends. Plus, much of the imagery is medieval - like Christ sitting on the right hand of God the Father. People actually visualized that centuries ago. Anarchronistic today. Then, again, if people want to say it, fine. A big tent is my point. I believe it was Wesley who said, in major things agreement, but in all else 'think and let think'. He also said if you love God as I love God, let's join hands and walk together. Sounds good to me.

3. My favorite Church Father is Origen, who I believe turned out to be slightly heretical. What I like about him is that he sees much allegory in scripture, which I find helpful.

God bless everybody - Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox - and Jews, Muslims and all God's children. We need to get beyond religious tribalism that has caused (and still causes) so much bigotry, arrogance and even violence and death in the world.