Hello

[jam070406]

The thing about atheists is we have the option of simply saying “I don’t know” rather than boldly asserting we have the answer with nothing to back it up but smoke and mirrors.

Another thing about atheists is that we do not share anything other than a lack of belief in a deity, so you will find some who are better at expressing their reasoning and those who perhaps should delve deeper before asserting their belief of no god.

Are you serious?? Believers have that option also. That’s what having Faith is about. But having Faith is never good enough answer for non-believers so we’re left at a crossroads.

 

[aileron]

What does it matter? I mean really. I think you know all the answers that believers can give so are you just asking to be spiteful. Is there really any sort of proof that you would yield to anyway? Really what’s the point?

Allow me to quote happilycatholic:

"Something first has to exsist to be preserved. It must be created to exsist. "

"It’s here so it had to be created. Nothing just “is”. It has an origin. "

So apparently you are OK accepting that something does not need to be created. So you must abandon this objection or not use it as an argument.

 

[AtheistEnvoy]

Are you serious?? Believers have that option also. That’s what having Faith is about. But having Faith is never good enough answer for non-believers so we’re left at a crossroads.

Believers have the option of claiming not to know? Since they do believe in god, to claim not to know would be the same as claiming it was not attributed to god, yet everything must be attributed to god as he is the creator of all existence.

I believe the coined phrase is ‘goddidit’

~edit

the specific incident I quoted was a great example of claiming ‘goddidit’ as it was asserting god is directly responsible for love yet atheism “lacks an explanation”. This is quite fitting to my case, so I must redirect your “are you serious???” back at you.

 

[aileron]

Are you serious?? Believers have that option also. That’s what having Faith is about. But having Faith is never good enough answer for non-believers so we’re left at a crossroads.

Faith is a good enough answer for me, as long as people don’t try to have it both ways. If someone uses pseudo-scientific arguments against evolution, I will object. If someone says they have faith that God did not create the universe that way and that science is wrong, I’m OK with that.

 

[aileron]

[double post]

 

[jam070406]

Believers have the option of claiming not to know? Since they do believe in god, to claim not to know would be the same as claiming it was not attributed to god, yet everything must be attributed to god as he is the creator of all existence.

I believe the coined phrase is ‘goddidit’

Sorry, I misspoke. I was thinking more about all the attributes of God, and the question of origin.

This is all getting quite tiresome.

 

[jam070406]

Faith is a good enough answer for me, as long as people don’t try to have it both ways. If someone uses pseudo-scientific arguments against evolution, I will object. If someone says they have faith that God did not create the universe that way and that science is wrong, I’m OK with that.

Then you should be honest enough to place the bible in proper context, as the Church teaches and understands it, rather then misquoting passages out of context to serve your argument. And also to realize that the Catholic Church does not rely solely on the bible alone.

 

[ntenaglia]

So you go from individual to species how? You’re jumping all over the place.

In case you missed this fact, individuals make up a species.

 

[ntenaglia]

Sorry, I misspoke. I was thinking more about all the attributes of God, and the question of origin.

This is all getting quite tiresome.

I’ll agree with that, this is getting really tiresome.

 

[lkddav]

Would it matter? Would you believe then?

If evidence for Jesus Christ existed the whole world would believe. Correct?

The 4 billion people on this planet that do not believe in your Christ, do not believe for the same reason I do. Lack of evidence.

 

[jam070406]

If evidence for Jesus Christ existed the whole world would believe. Correct?

The 4 billion people on this planet that do not believe in your Christ, do not believe for the same reason I do. Lack of evidence.

You also have no evidence for the origin of love. Do you believe in love?

 

[happilycatholic]

The thing about atheists is we have the option of simply saying “I don’t know” rather than boldly asserting we have the answer with nothing to back it up but smoke and mirrors.

Another thing about atheists is that we do not share anything other than a lack of belief in a deity, so you will find some who are better at expressing their reasoning and those who perhaps should delve deeper before asserting their belief of no god.

I always find it interesting how people with no real beliefs can find fault in those that believe in God.

Awesome.

~Tonya
Boldly asserting the love of Jesus Christ!, Oh hold on, let me get my smoke and mirrors…there, now… can you see Him? Not yet, awe I’m sorry. I’ll keep trying!

 

[happilycatholic]

Allow me to quote happilycatholic:

"Something first has to exsist to be preserved. It must be created to exsist. "

"It’s here so it had to be created. Nothing just “is”. It has an origin. "

So apparently you are OK accepting that something does not need to be created. So you must abandon this objection or not use it as an argument.

Awe, what a sad attempt at Atheism. God isn’t subject to my quotes or yours. God isn’t proof or unproof of any theory of yours or mine. God isn’t limited by my description of him or yours. God isn’t the sum of what you or I believe.

God is God. From whence all things come, explained or unexplained. God’s exsistance doesn’t depend on whether you or I believe. Get over yourself.

My comment was directed at the earthly matter “box” that the poster tried to put love into, it did not attempt to explain the exsistance of God. I asked you to reserve that argument for later, but you insist on bringing it up time and time again.

So I’ve told you. God is God. Not created, nor begotten, nor made.

Now you will ask for proof and I will say there’s none. Then you will say, aha, see I’ve proved there is no God. Non proof is not proof and that’s already been approached in this thread so let it go.

Now can you tell me where love comes from? The answer is NO and that is my point. But you can’t let that alone either. You must prove that it comes from some earthly, physical form or thing like DNA for crikey sake. That’s just plain ignorant IMHO.

Those of us who are Christians have faith. That’s it. I don’t need proof, you do. That’s your thing, not mine.

So let it go. You don’t have a clue where love comes from because the things you believe in can’t explain it. I’m fine with that. But I guess you’re not because you keep arguing a moot point.

 

[jam070406]

the argument that love exists therefore so does god is the most logically preposterous assertion I’ve heard in a while here on CAF (or anywhere for that matter).

Love is emotion and learned behavior … two traits humans share with our fellow mammals lower on the food chain. Dogs feel emotion (yup it’s true … look it up if you need to), and mammals like dogs can learn (albeit due to much smaller brain size they can’t learn much). So arguably even dogs feel an emotion akin to love (although it would be much more primal – in correlation with their lower intellectual capacity).

What’s even more preposterous is the hypocrisy of your own logic.
Unless you, yourself, can present the scientific data that you came up with, doing your own research, then you are doing nothing more then putting your faith in something you read or heard and can’t prove. The EXACT assertion that you attempt to pin on believers. So no, you do not know the origin of Love, sorry.

 

[AtheistEnvoy]

I always find it interesting how people with no real beliefs can find fault in those that believe in God.

Awesome.

~Tonya
Boldly asserting the love of Jesus Christ!, Oh hold on, let me get my smoke and mirrors…there, now… can you see Him? Not yet, awe I’m sorry. I’ll keep trying!

The only real belief is a belief in god? I am sure there are billions who would disagree with you, millions of which being inside your own faith (yes this is an assumption that not all Catholics could possibly be this ignorant).

If those with “no real beliefs” never found faults in “those that believe in God” the earth could still be considered the center of the universe, it would also be considered flat. Technologically we’d be a far cry from where we are today, slavery could be acceptable, and the list only goes on.

I sincerely hope this sad display is not the general consensus here.

 

[jam070406]

If those with “no real beliefs” never found faults in “those that believe in God” the earth could still be considered the center of the universe, it would also be considered flat. Technologically we’d be a far cry from where we are today, slavery would be acceptable, and the list only goes on.

Someone that demands proof should not bandy this sort of baseless rhetoric.

 

[AtheistEnvoy]

Someone that demands proof should not bandy this sort of baseless rhetoric.

I don’t demand proof, I don’t recall stating that I did. If you intend for me to agree with you on something that has such an impact on quite frankly everything then I will indeed need something to go on.

If you have studied history, and read your bible I would hardly consider it baseless, however it was quite presumptuous of me to say “would” rather than “could” which is what I originally intended as you can see by the first statement. For that slip up I do apologize.

 

[josie_L]

Yes, you could use the term programmed. There might actually be no free will. Have you ever found yourself in the middle of a conversation and realising you never actually thought about anything you said, it just came out? Scientists are actually theoretically able to predict exactly what you would do in any situation if they had the significant computer power. They don’t though - if I recall correctly, the strongest computer in the world might be able to calculate how a dust particle would fall.

I don’t know if we have found this gene called love, but it’s not something I made up right now. I do have some sort of faith in it, but it is likely, based on logic and reason and most importantly it doesn’t change my everyday life. I don’t refrain from certain actions, get defaulted views on things and go to church every sunday because I hypothesize that love came from evolution.

Do we love like animals love?

P.S. No, we have not found a gene for love, do you think there is a gene for hate?

 

[happilycatholic]

The only real belief is a belief in god? I am sure there are billions who would disagree with you, millions of which being inside your own faith (yes this is an assumption that not all Catholics could possibly be this ignorant).

If those with “no real beliefs” never found faults in “those that believe in God” the earth could still be considered the center of the universe, it would also be considered flat. Technologically we’d be a far cry from where we are today, slavery could be acceptable, and the list only goes on.

I sincerely hope this sad display is not the general consensus here.

Oh so now I’m ignorant. What exactly am I ignorant of? And no, I didn’t say the only real belief is a belief in God. What I said was YOU as an Atheist believe what YOU choose as in YOU make it up. What was inferred here (and mind you, you are calling me ignorant) is “religious beliefs or beliefs with relation to God” I mean afterall, wasn’t that what the thread is about? I’m sorry next time I’ll spell that out for you.

Actually, it probably is. Most of us poor Catholics believe in God. Most of us have faith and go on that without the need for proof. You on the other hand, cannot show me proof of where love comes from and therefore your own Atheism is inferior to your standards of proof.

And that’s not sad?

I never insulted you or called you a name. Most people who do what you did here do so because they are frustrated with the fact that their position has no basis.

What’s your reason for being so insulting?

 

[AtheistEnvoy]

Oh so now I’m ignorant.

Indeed.

And no, I didn’t say the only real belief is a belief in God. What I said was YOU as an Atheist believe what YOU choose as in YOU make it up.

You wrote “people with no real beliefs” in regards to atheists. Seeing as how the only thing differing between every atheist, and every catholic is our “belief” in a god, it can easily be deduced to “god is the only real belief”. Did I explain your own words well enough for you to understand what you had perhaps mistakenly wrote?

Actually, it probably is. Most of us poor Catholics believe in God. Most of us have faith and go on that without the need for proof. You on the other hand, cannot show me proof of where love comes from and therefore your own Atheism is inferior to your standards of proof.

I can’t explain a lot of things, in ancient times you’d be telling me how foolish I am to doubt zeus, clearly you have witnessed thunder and lightning what is your explanation for that? In those times you’d be unable to give me an answer, do you see the connection between your argument and what I have just demonstrated?

And that’s not sad?

no…

I never insulted you or called you a name. Most people who do what you did here do so because they are frustrated with the fact that their position has no basis.

What’s your reason for being so insulting?

Insulting? I rather thought I was doing Catholics a favor in assuming you are not a prime example of those who hold their beliefs.