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The only Christians I know who were around two millenia ago and are still around today is Catholics (and Orthodox too). And the CC has never changed its stance on morality in all those years.
Sure it has. The history shows a self-evident pattern of human origin for morality. You’ll understand that “Thus saith the Lord” will just get is into a pointless back and forth.

At least the moral guidance from the people leading the church (or their *behavior *if you reject my assertion that humans are the ultimate determiner of morality) has generally trended to be more favorable to human pursuits through the course of history.
 
Marines aren’t trained as dogs though.

I don’t see it as impossible to train a person as a dog. It would be highly immoral and basically a very disgusting thing to do, but if you surpressed a person enough mentally, and then began treating it as a dog, eventually it would begin acting as one, or at least be as submissive as a “properly” (from a common viewpoint I don’t share) trained dog.

I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular, it just seems that the discussion is getting more and more heated, with more and more mud-throwing - not really something we want.

Being called the devil’s child, for instance, does not provide a good basis for discussion however. I would like to know where this interpretation is from. Does it say word for word in the Bible that those who reject god are of the devil, or does it come from saying “well, Jesus said that if you are not of god you are against him, and since it somewhere else says that the enemy of god is the devil, obviously those rejecting god must be the devil’s servants”?
That’s why I re-showed you my own thread. ITs plain as day. If you are in the Spirit of Truth you are of God. The Spirit of deceit is the devil. thats scripture.

In John 3:22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies the Father and the Son this is the antichrist. Unquote

I do not see how it can get any clearer then that. The antichrist is the devil. If you say that you do not believe in Jesus Christ you deny the Father and the Son. Pretty clear. How can we calm down when we never said or did anything to calm down from. You asked for scripture I gave it to you. Now I am sorry you do not like to be called the antichrist but if you deny Jesus Christ scripture says you are. So that is direct quote above. What does is say to you. Same thing? You tell us then.

We are not throwing mud, we are showing you the scripure you asked for, why is that mud-slinging. Its not mud slinging its scripture.

And yes if you train someone as a dog they would submit to you. But as soon as they got away from you and saw what was done, and got their human dignity back they would become whole again. And with the right counseling and grace of God would never let you do that to them again. A dog does not have that option. It has no free will from God or human mind to do so. It would continue to accept abuse, hate, etc again, and not know the difference. Again a dog is a animal a human being is a person.
 
I didn’t see it, would you please show me the evidence, disprove the invisible pink unicorn also.
"Originally Posted by AnotherAtheist forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I think you have it backwards. You are the one that claims the existence of god therefore the burden of proof is on you.

For example I say to you, “We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power.”

A logical response for you would be, “Prove it.”

Theists are the ones that can claim no authority because they have no proof. Atheists on the other hand have mountains of peer reviewed scientific data that stands as evidence that many of the beliefs espoused by most of the religions of the world are just plane wrong.*

Well, maybe I’m wrong, but can’t we prove that the universe is older than the spaghetti that you claim created it? 😉

But I agree with you. The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim. You are free to either believe or not believe the proof that’s shown to you.

Evidence and proof are funny things.

Lack of evidence and proof doesn’t stop a lot of people from believing. Look at the stories about 9/11. And we have that event on film!!

Mountains of evidence and proof doesn’t stop a lot of people from doubting. Look at the battles over evolution.

For some, no amount of evidence is enough. For others, no evidence is more than enough.

And, of course, there are those who refuse to even look for the evidence. "
 
That’s why I re-showed you my own thread. ITs plain as day. If you are in the Spirit of Truth you are of God. The Spirit of deceit is the devil. thats scripture.

In John 3:22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies the Father and the Son this is the antichrist. Unquote

I do not see how it can get any clearer then that. The antichrist is the devil. If you say that you do not believe in Jesus Christ you deny the Father and the Son. Pretty clear. How can we calm down when we never said or did anything to calm down from. You asked for scripture I gave it to you. Now I am sorry you do not like to be called the antichrist but if you deny Jesus Christ scripture says you are. So that is direct quote above. What does is say to you. Same thing? You tell us then.
Now I see that it is based on scripture though, thanks for the quote. 😉
We are not throwing mud, we are showing you the scripure you asked for, why is that mud-slinging. Its not mud slinging its scripture.
I would say the scripture itself is mud-throwing, but that’s another discussion. ;p
I did state that I didn’t direct the comment at someone in particular though, but at the general mood of the debate.
And yes if you train someone as a dog they would submit to you. But as soon as they got away from you and saw what was done, and got their human dignity back they would become whole again. And with the right counseling and grace of God would never let you do that to them again. A dog does not have that option. It has no free will from God or human mind to do so. It would continue to accept abuse, hate, etc again, and not know the difference. Again a dog is a animal a human being is a person.
If a dog got away and got to spend time in the wild or somewhere it was treated as an equal, would it not become whole again also? We might never know. That a dog accepts abuse is not true though, it’d run away after sufficient abuse. The problem is that dogs are so loving creatures they usually just take the punishment and stay with the owner that they love, despite it’s actions.
Indeed, some are.

So was your idea of training a person like a dog literal? :confused:
Like,“fetch the stick boy”
Yes, it was literal. Not exactly fetch the stick boy, but more like for instance physical punishment when sitting in the couch, and so on.
 
Yes, it was literal. Not exactly fetch the stick boy, but more like for instance physical punishment when sitting in the couch, and so on.
Ok, now I see where you were going. Disregard my whole Marine thing, I admit I didn’t think that analogy through well enough. :o
Oh well, carry on.
 
Now I see that it is based on scripture though, thanks for the quote. 😉

I would say the scripture itself is mud-throwing, but that’s another discussion. ;p
I did state that I didn’t direct the comment at someone in particular though, but at the general mood of the debate.

If a dog got away and got to spend time in the wild or somewhere it was treated as an equal, would it not become whole again also? We might never know. That a dog accepts abuse is not true though, it’d run away after sufficient abuse. The problem is that dogs are so loving creatures they usually just take the punishment and stay with the owner that they love, despite it’s actions.

Yes, it was literal. Not exactly fetch the stick boy, but more like for instance physical punishment when sitting in the couch, and so on.
But to a Christian and a true follower of Jesus Christ it is not mud. It is the words of God and it is something that we try to follow the best we can to gain eternal life. You do not have to accept Christ, its free will. But well, you read the scripture as well as I did.

No a dog is never the same as a human being. Again God made a dog as a animal. If a dog was a human being he would be called that. Unless you feel the need to debate that also. That a dog is not a animal. prove it etc. But I for one have no reason or feel no need. Hope that the scripture has helped you in some way. I never meant disrespect, to be mean, or to degrade. Just to show you the words of Jesus Christ.
 
But to a Christian and a true follower of Jesus Christ it is not mud. It is the words of God and it is something that we try to follow the best we can to gain eternal life. You do not have to accept Christ, its free will. But well, you read the scripture as well as I did.

No a dog is never the same as a human being. Again God made a dog as a animal. If a dog was a human being he would be called that. Unless you feel the need to debate that also. That a dog is not a animal. prove it etc. But I for one have no reason or feel no need. Hope that the scripture has helped you in some way. I never meant disrespect, to be mean, or to degrade. Just to show you the words of Jesus Christ.
Absolutely, I understand that, but what is one person’s most cherished treasure might be another person’s mud. I just wanted to emphasize that. Not comparing scripture to mud, obviously, but just emphasizing that some scripture quotes still can be seen as mud-throwing although christians see it as the most beautiful thing in the world.

I would also agree that a dog is not the same as a human being, but I would insist that there are significant similarities in the way our minds work. A dog is indeed an animal, but I would say a human is also a species in the animal world. 😉
How so? You don’t believe in Christ so what does it matter to you? Not trying to be mean, but genuniely asking.
Scripture, whether written by/for god or not, true or not, still has several offensive statements towards for instance athiesm. Regardless of the authenticity of the Bible, of the truth about Christ and the existance of god, these texts can still be seen as offensive.
 
Scripture, whether written by/for god or not, true or not, still has several offensive statements towards for instance athiesm. Regardless of the authenticity of the Bible, of the truth about Christ and the existance of god, these texts can still be seen as offensive.
I would venture to say Christ, regardless if you believe or not, has been offended by many things you’ve said or done against Him.
 
Absolutely, I understand that, but what is one person’s most cherished treasure might be another person’s mud. I just wanted to emphasize that. Not comparing scripture to mud, obviously, but just emphasizing that some scripture quotes still can be seen as mud-throwing although christians see it as the most beautiful thing in the world.

I would also agree that a dog is not the same as a human being, but I would insist that there are significant similarities in the way our minds work. A dog is indeed an animal, but I would say a human is also a species in the animal world. 😉

Scripture, whether written by/for god or not, true or not, still has several offensive statements towards for instance athiesm. Regardless of the authenticity of the Bible, of the truth about Christ and the existance of god, these texts can still be seen as offensive.
Only to people who do not accept the teachings of Christ. But if you don’t believe in God, or the scriptures why would you care anyway. You know what I mean. Like I could care less what athiests say about me. Or write about Christians. I could care less what People who worship satan say about Christians. I would never even want to go to a satanic site and ask them what they think. I would feel this way we have nothing in common so why even go there. Time is more important to me than that. I would rather help people and pray for them and spread the good news.

I would have no interest in their belief’s whatsoever.
 
At first glance we have little in common, that’s true, but we’re at the same planet and it’s getting awfully crowded here so unless we learn to live together, we’re in for an interesting future.
 
And of course scripture would have alot to say about the devil. Are you kidding. Thats the like duh whole reason for the bible. To turn away from the works of the devil and towards the works of God.

You have got to be kidding with that one now. That is like unreal. Would you really think God is going to teach that the evil one is not evil. PLeeeeeeeeeeeeese!

Thats the biggest joke yet. God came down to save us from sin, but yet is going to talk nice about the devil the king of sin and evil. God came down to destroy evil not spread it for goodness sake.
 
And of course scripture would have alot to say about the devil. Are you kidding. Thats the like duh whole reason for the bible. To turn away from the works of the devil and towards the works of God.

You have got to be kidding with that one now. That is like unreal. Would you really think God is going to teach that the evil one is not evil. PLeeeeeeeeeeeeese!

Thats the biggest joke yet. God came down to save us from sin, but yet is going to talk nice about the devil the king of sin and evil. God came down to destroy evil not spread it for goodness sake.
What’s with the tone? The first paragraph I can take, but looking at the entire post you come across like a spoiled teenager who didn’t get invited to a party.

Of course scripture would have a lot to say about the devil, I never said anything against that. I inquired whether the specific statement about atheists being the devil’s children had any basis in scripture. I was only given one quote, so surely this is not plastered all over the Bible so it’s impossible to miss?
 
At first glance we have little in common, that’s true, but we’re at the same planet and it’s getting awfully crowded here so unless we learn to live together, we’re in for an interesting future.
This is a nice sentiment and all, but, you’ve stated in the past that you would like to see religion wiped out. That kids should not be taught religion, etc.

Hardly an example of people I wanna live with.
 
Only to people who do not accept the teachings of Christ. But if you don’t believe in God, or the scriptures why would you care anyway. You know what I mean. Like I could care less what athiests say about me. Or write about Christians. I could care less what People who worship satan say about Christians. I would never even want to go to a satanic site and ask them what they think. I would feel this way we have nothing in common so why even go there. Time is more important to me than that. I would rather help people and pray for them and spread the good news.

I would have no interest in their belief’s whatsoever.
It’s simple rinne, people don’t look for what they’ve already found. 🙂
 
This is a nice sentiment and all, but, you’ve stated in the past that you would like to see religion wiped out. That kids should not be taught religion, etc.

Hardly an example of people I wanna live with.
And I’ve seen several catholics with opinions I don’t want to live with either, but what are we going to do? Kill eachother?
 
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