Help...17 Y.O. doesn't want to go to church/confirmation

[SonSearcher]

Very few if any. However the number isn’t the point, the point is that people who have the use of reason cannot be forced to recieve sacraments.

But my point is. Does the 7 year old seek it out or does the parent seek it out for them? Most likely it is the latter. It is up to the community to get the child through it. To teach obedience to the Church. When the parent gets the 7 year old through first communion, we don’t call it “forcing” even though the child could refuse at anytime.

 

[SonSearcher]

Night guys. I think I lost this one. Bummer I was sure I had it. I know that is not the point but I must have been misinformed. Thanks for posting with me.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

First the OP stated her son is willing to go through it for her. I think we shouldn’t call that “forcing” him

Second I completely agree with this “salvation” of souls stuff. That is the point of this world to make it to the next. But Confirmation is not required for salvation.

Baptism and repentance are. But we give the sacrament of baptism mainly as babies or children at the request of the parents. Same as Confession. We witness for them. We as the community make sure they do it. Regardless if they understand fully what they are doing. If we waited for these teens to make up their own mind we are putting them in a dangerous position. The enemy is vastly more intellectual than we are. What if Satan is working in them already. They are spiraling downward into despair. In Mortal sin, receiving the Eucharist every Sunday. The parent “forces” them through confirmation. How is it the forcing of confirmation the thing that makes these Christians lax in their adult faith life?

I say that the problem is much larger than “forcing” confirmation on teens. It is a fundamental break down of the family, and faith life. It is much more involved than just “forcing” this sacrament on these guys and gals.

Thank you for your answer. I’m not sure why I’m trying to clarify further because I think we are on 2 different planes. I appreciate your concern for the breakdown of the family and faith life, and want to remain charitable with the discussion.

My view of what you are suggesting people do IS THE BREAKDOWN of the faith life which leads to the breakdown of the family. They go to these cultic rituals not because of the faith which is in them, but to please their mom. That’s not faith, it’s bearing false witness. It is saying “yes, I repent” when they really have no intention of repentance. So they grow up and have kids, and all they have to teach their kids is…just get in your suit and sit through a long service, you’ll only have to do it once…That’s not vibrant Christian faith…it’s acting. And so we have an entire church that has been doing that for so long they have nothing to pass on even if they wanted to.

That’s not the faith we read about in the Bible - it’s theological slop. Let me ask, the disciples weren’t much older than teens when they were left with the responsibility of carrying the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world. How many of your teens would, in 3 or 4 years be ready to carry the upstart church on their backs? I’d guess zero. Why?

Not because young people aren’t capable of greatness, wars are fought by 18 and 20 year olds who are expected to do great things and pushed to achieve them all the while knowing the grave consequences of failure.

We, meaning the church, see no grave consequence of failure when it comes to passing Christianity to others. Back to John 3 again, read verse 36. Does this speak of urgency.

Now, let me bring it into your arena. As a teacher of those children YOU are going to be held accountable, by God, on judgement day (2Cor5:12) for the level of faith and preparedness of those children as it rests on your ability to attempt to transmit it. Your judgement will be based upon whether you let them ride or not. You will answer to God, not your deacon, priest or bishop, to Jesus Christ himself on whether you knowingly put uncaring, non-faithful, non-repentant people in front of a bishop, a successor of Christ, to receive the Holy Spirit because “I just wanted them to say yes when I knew they meant no”.

So again, I know what I say is difficult, but we as a church have lost all thought of grave consequence to how we accomplish the work we have been given by God. It is important. I hope this thread has helped.

BTW-you are welcome to PM me if desired to discuss further out of the public view. I’m not really mean, just tired of people not taking faith seriously.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Night guys. I think I lost this one. Bummer I was sure I had it. I know that is not the point but I must have been misinformed. Thanks for posting with me.

No worries, it’s a high grace environment!

 

[Love2beCatholic]

Thank you for all of the replies.

I’m leaning toward letting him decide on confirmation as I thought that is in keeping with the churches wishes but now I’m wondering if this is universal or if other parts of the world do this differently? I hate to have him miss out on the graces of the sacrament so I still may ask him to do it for me (if that is the best he can come up with).

I went over the reasons that missing mass is sinful and quoted the bible on not having life within him (if missing the eucharist) and I explained that I may need to give a consequence when not going to church (said I’d be praying on that and seeking advice) but that doesn’t yet settle completely with me. I thought I could take the car away for several days to a full week for each Sunday he misses as this would mean he walks to school and can’t use it for other purposes. I would appreciate knowing the reasons people think I should make my son go to church or what you think of the consequence idea.

’

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Thank you for all of the replies.

I’m leaning toward letting him decide on confirmation as I thought that is in keeping with the churches wishes but now I’m wondering if this is universal or if other parts of the world do this differently? I hate to have him miss out on the graces of the sacrament so I still may ask him to do it for me (if that is the best he can come up with).

I went over the reasons that missing mass is sinful and quoted the bible on not having life within him (if missing the eucharist) and I explained that I may need to give a consequence when not going to church (said I’d be praying on that and seeking advice) but that doesn’t yet settle completely with me. I thought I could take the car away for several days to a full week for each Sunday he misses as this would mean he walks to school and can’t use it for other purposes. I would appreciate knowing the reasons people think I should make my son go to church or what you think of the consequence idea.

’

Your house, your rules. He wants to be a big boy, he has to act like one. “Want to drive…there’s a price. Do what I say or get a job and do what your boss says. Either way you’re 17 and still taking orders from someone else. BTW son - having me provide the car costs you 2 hours a week. Working enough to afford one will cost you 40 hours a week. You do the math.”

But then again…I’m not the kinder gentler type when it comes to young men accepting responsibility. (Because I was a pretty non-responsible teenage type…)

 

[devoutchristian]

I’m leaning toward letting him decide on confirmation as I thought that is in keeping with the churches wishes but now I’m wondering if this is universal or if other parts of the world do this differently?

Requiring consent is a universal practice. The Church won’t confirm unwilling candidates.

I hate to have him miss out on the graces of the sacrament so I still may ask him to do it for me (if that is the best he can come up with).

The sacramental grace will not be forthcoming if the sacrament is received unworthily.

 

[CradleJourney]

Thank you for all of the replies.

I’m leaning toward letting him decide on confirmation as I thought that is in keeping with the churches wishes but now I’m wondering if this is universal or if other parts of the world do this differently? I hate to have him miss out on the graces of the sacrament so I still may ask him to do it for me (if that is the best he can come up with).

I went over the reasons that missing mass is sinful and quoted the bible on not having life within him (if missing the eucharist) and I explained that I may need to give a consequence when not going to church (said I’d be praying on that and seeking advice) but that doesn’t yet settle completely with me. I thought I could take the car away for several days to a full week for each Sunday he misses as this would mean he walks to school and can’t use it for other purposes. I would appreciate knowing the reasons people think I should make my son go to church or what you think of the consequence idea.

’

Your house - your rules. If the rules are people who live in your house attend Sunday mass - then so be it.

That said, I would not take the car away because there is no clear connection between driving privileges and mass. And more importantly it gives him the option of being stubborn and declaring he’d rather walk / get rides than attend mass. I’d say not give him that power by not giving him the option.

Simply inform him of what time he needs to be ready to leave for mass in advance, at that time announce it’s time to leave and fully expect him to go (yes, technically it’s a bluff … you cannot physically make him go … but from your prior post, he doesn’t sound like he’s going to openly and physically defy you). If he says he isn’t feeling good, isn’t dressed, has to finish X … simply restate that it’s time to go now, turn off any electronic whatsit, and point to the door … don’t argue, let him wear whatever (it’ll be obvious to everyone that he’s of an age to dress himself), don’t negotiate, stare him down and expect compliance.

I have “bluffed” my oldest two (now adults) this way in the past with great success - even though I had strong internal worries about them rebelling - but they never did. Oh, I got whines, complaints, glares, and remarks - but I pointed at the door and they went.

 

[devoutchristian]

If he says he isn’t feeling good

He shouldn’t go if he’s ill.

 

[thomasf]

I did not want to be confirmed. I did not want to be Catholic. When I was little I HATED going to church and stopped going as soon as I could after coming of age. That all being said, my mother made it clear to me that to live under her roof I was going to be confirmed. Or else I could leave the house. So, I did my time and got confirmed. And after leaving for college I stopped going to church and was away from the church for 17 years.

However, I never stopped feeling God’s call to me, and I never stopped feeling like a catholic. And eventually I came back. And thankfully, I was confirmed and I was able to come back into the church without RCIA, etc. I honestly believe that being confirmed, even against my personal wishes, helped to bring me back to the church and to keep believing in God. They say confirmation is a sacrament that leaves a mark on your soul, and I completely believe it. I am very thankful for my mother insisting on my confirmation, and I hope that God rewards her for her diligence in raising me in the church. Even though I was a very difficult child that resisted it at every chance.

While some people here will disagree, I am of the opinion that you should insist on your son getting confirmed. Force him if necessary, like my mom forced me. Believe me, I did the whole “I don’t want to be confirmed” thing, and my mom didn’t buy it. Do it for the sake of your son’s soul.

Incidentally, my brother never got confirmed. My mom died shortly after my confirmation, and my sisters never made him go through it. He walked away from the church and I doubt he’ll ever come back. Again, I credit my mom’s strong faith and insistence on being confirmed, insistence on teaching me the faith even against my will.

 

[CradleJourney]

He shouldn’t go if he’s ill.

I was unclear. My apologies. No, he should not go if he is physically ill. However, when the time comes for one of my children to go to something they prefer not to attend (be it church, school, their sister’s recital, etc.), it is not uncommon for them to state they don’t feel well.

And I bet they really don’t feel well. I, often, feel “sick” when I don’t really want to do something. That, however, is not an acceptable excuse - it’s a part of life.

Obviously if someone has a fever, etc - that is a different situation than to what I was referring and I assumed that would be taken as a given. However, I was wrong and again, my apologies for the assumption.

 

[SonSearcher]

I did not want to be confirmed. I did not want to be Catholic. When I was little I HATED going to church and stopped going as soon as I could after coming of age. That all being said, my mother made it clear to me that to live under her roof I was going to be confirmed. Or else I could leave the house. So, I did my time and got confirmed. And after leaving for college I stopped going to church and was away from the church for 17 years.

However, I never stopped feeling God’s call to me, and I never stopped feeling like a catholic. And eventually I came back. And thankfully, I was confirmed and I was able to come back into the church without RCIA, etc. I honestly believe that being confirmed, even against my personal wishes, helped to bring me back to the church and to keep believing in God. They say confirmation is a sacrament that leaves a mark on your soul, and I completely believe it. I am very thankful for my mother insisting on my confirmation, and I hope that God rewards her for her diligence in raising me in the church. Even though I was a very difficult child that resisted it at every chance.

While some people here will disagree, I am of the opinion that you should insist on your son getting confirmed. Force him if necessary, like my mom forced me. Believe me, I did the whole “I don’t want to be confirmed” thing, and my mom didn’t buy it. Do it for the sake of your son’s soul.

Incidentally, my brother never got confirmed. My mom died shortly after my confirmation, and my sisters never made him go through it. He walked away from the church and I doubt he’ll ever come back. Again, I credit my mom’s strong faith and insistence on being confirmed, insistence on teaching me the faith even against my will.

I agree with you. I walked away from the Church before confirmation, it was not easy to come back. I still had the reasons in my head for why I left in the first place there at age 30, talk about not putting childish things away.

But as has been stated on here it is a very dangerous position to “force” someone through it regardless of our personal experience. Although it may seem like we need to use a strong arm…God’s arm is strongest and he still allows complete free will, so we should honor another in the same way.

As stated previously in the discussion the candidates must be willing to accept the sacrament. Like I said I agree that we should make sure our kids get through them but if they are outright defying…they are not ready. If these kids are with you in your house you can use that to make sure they get to Church but we can’t force them to receive sacraments.

 

[Irishmom2]

Nope. Take Him to Church. Confirmation is not his choice. He is still under the guidance of Parents and God Parents. Unfortunately if left to their own decision most youth will choose to not attend Church and not choose confirmation.

Confirmation is totally their choice. What is the point of it, if it is not their choice? Baptism is when parents decide to bring their child to God, but confirmation is when the child (or adult) decides for themself.

OP, in other threads on this topic, parents have “compromised” and told their child that they have to attend all of the classes and do the retreats or whatever their parish includes, and THEN they are free to decide if they want to be confirmed or not. Some will decide not to be, some will “get it” and want to get confirmed.

 

[SonSearcher]

Confirmation is totally their choice. What is the point of it, if it is not their choice? Baptism is when parents decide to bring their child to God, but confirmation is when the child (or adult) decides for themself.

OP, in other threads on this topic, parents have “compromised” and told their child that they have to attend all of the classes and do the retreats or whatever their parish includes, and THEN they are free to decide if they want to be confirmed or not. Some will decide not to be, some will “get it” and want to get confirmed.

I have totally conceded victory to my fellow posters on here. No need to drag up my failed arguments anymore.

 

[MissRose73]

Looking back, my younger sister was not fond of going to church, catechism and getting her sacraments after she had her First Communion. High school was about her education, social life and athletic things (in no particular order), and anything religious was on the back burner for her. She did go to church on Saturday evenings with me and my mother as my mother’s house rule was as long as we lived with her.

She was confirmed at 16, but I wonder if she was really into the process of preparation and stuff. She stopped going to Mass around age 18/19 and moved out from my parents’ home. If she has gone to Mass on her own at any point, I have no idea. She has gone to Masses for various relatives’ funerals, weddings, etc but not on a weekly basis. If she was given the choice, she may have not been confirmed at all.

 

[devoutchristian]

While some people here will disagree, I am of the opinion that you should insist on your son getting confirmed.

Some people here, some people in Rome, 2000 years of Apostolic Tradition, etc. In any case the Church requires consent and forbids the use of material benefits (such as shelter) to coerce people in this regard.

 

[mayxanh]

I have “bluffed” my oldest two (now adults) this way in the past with great success - even though I had strong internal worries about them rebelling - but they never did. Oh, I got whines, complaints, glares, and remarks - but I pointed at the door and they went.

I apologize for my curiosity, you just ignore if you feel not like to

Are your adult children still practising NOW?

thanks

 

[thomasf]

Some people here, some people in Rome, 2000 years of Apostolic Tradition, etc. In any case the Church requires consent and forbids the use of material benefits (such as shelter) to coerce people in this regard.

I’m sure that would have changed my mother’s mind. Lol. I’m glad she did it. I was a stupid kid that had no idea what was best for me, and it was my parent’s job to make sure I was brought up in the faith. IMO confirmation should be done at a much younger age anyway before the kid starts to rebel against everything. We don’t leave all the other parental decisions up to the kid to decide, parenting isn’t a democracy.

 

[thomasf]

Confirmation is totally their choice. What is the point of it, if it is not their choice? Baptism is when parents decide to bring their child to God, but confirmation is when the child (or adult) decides for themself.

I don’t believe this is correct, and this is more of a modern view of what confirmation has become. I don’t believe it is meant to be a teenager’s way of choosing or deciding for themselves about the church. When St Paul talks about confirming it is meant to be something done after baptism. Only in modern times do we get this idea that confirmation is a teen’s way of entering the church as an adult. And the order of the sacraments was much different for a long time where confirmation was done after baptism and before first communion. IMO confirmation should be something done in childhood, not as a teenager, and not as a way for a teen to choose the church. If our children fully become a member of the church at a younger age, I believe they would feel a closer part of the church and it would become more important to their lives. It’s a parent’s job to raise their kids in the faith, and that means baptism and the reception of all the sacraments of initiation. By waiting for high school we are doing a disservice to out children and failing them in the faith. Yet people wonder why so many choose to leave the faith.

I speak from experience and reflection on how I was raised in the church. I spent many years in ccd doing nothing, learning nothing about the faith, and when it came time for confirmation I had no interest in the faith. We ‘park’ our kids in ccd classes for almost 10 years after 1st communion, for what reason? When I was a kid, I saw confirmation as an end of a long painful torture and finally being able to dump the monday afternoon ccd classes. We languished in those classes for 10 years, and this was in the good old days of building collages and banners and learning nothing of the actual faith of the 80s. Given a choice I would have not gone through with it, and been done with the faith. Thankfully, I was not given a choice and my parents insisted on finishing my christian education. But there were kids in my confirmation classes that opted out, including the son of one of our confirmation teachers. What became of them, and their faith, I wonder? Why make these kids wait so long, until the age when all they want to do is rebel and get away from what their parents want for them? Why keep them waiting, parking them in limbo for 10 years until they can be full members of the church?

IMO confirmation should happen no later than 12. Will that stop kids from going away from the church as they get older? Nope. But I bet it will help them feel more closely connected to the faith, and bring many of them back to the faith in adulthood. And save a lot of hassle for people coming back into the church.

 

[CradleJourney]

I apologize for my curiosity, you just ignore if you feel not like to

Are your adult children still practising NOW?

thanks

Yes, they are, and both have active roles in lay ministry. I give all credit to God

For both of them confirmation was a big turning point, I believe. I made sure to tell them that this (unlike attending mass while in my home), was entirely their decision and that it was an adult level decision they were making. I insisted they go to the preparation meetings but told them they and only they could make the decision to receive this sacrament because doing so would be making a choice to enter fully into the Catholic church for life. I am grateful we had a very good confirmation preparation team who also supported this point of view. I would have been saddened if they had decided not to receive Confirmation but I would have been proud of them for not just taking the easy route and going through the motions.