Help a non-Catholic Understand the Marriage Process

[His_helpmeet]

Our archdiocese has two options for couples to do marriage preparation.

Option 1 (most common) - complete a face-to-face course. This is usually a weekend program. The archdiocese used to offer a marriage preparation program and an enhanced marriage preparation program (the latter was for couples who were over 30). They have now stopped doing that at the archdiocesan level, but there are some larger parishes who offer the program. Engaged Encounter is also an accepted alternative.

Option 2 - online marriage preparation. This is often chosen by couples who aren’t able to commit to a weekend course due to distance, time constraints, or other concerns. The couple are assigned a facilitator who registers them for an online survey (I’m guessing it might be the FOCCUS) and then guides them through a discussion. There’s also an additional online course they have to complete.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Thank you all again for your insight. I’ve sent an email to the local church using their contact page and also left a message for a call back from the priest.

I’ve never spoke to a priest before so is there any advice on what to expect? I’m guessing I should address him as Father? I imagine he’ll ask me why I think the marriage should be annulled- do you think I should just tell him my situation or is there a particular law or deficiency I should state?

My full situation for the first marriage- I don’t believe she was ever baptized. I was.

She had issues at home when she was roughly 16-17 years old and moved in with me and my family. Separate rooms until we were both 18. I wanted to get out of the relationship but felt that she was dependent upon me and the situation was tolerable. She was on birth control but still got pregnant so we decided to get married when I was 23. It seemed like the right thing to do. Neither of us practiced our faith or had any understanding of what the church would consider a valid marriage when we gave our vows. Only went through the process the way we were told to by I someone I believe was a preacher and only met with the day of the wedding. Seems like he was a friend of someone in her family. After our second child she started taking anti-depressants and just never seemed to “be there” anymore. Just emotionally blank. I was living as a robot and just going through the motions and eventually decided that I was getting older and if I ever wanted to truly be happy I needed to get out of the house and get a divorce, so we did.

Any suggestions on how I should handle my first conversation with the priest?

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you all again for your insight. I’ve sent an email to the local church using their contact page and also left a message for a call back from the priest.

I’ve never spoke to a priest before so is there any advice on what to expect? I’m guessing I should address him as Father? I imagine he’ll ask me why I think the marriage should be annulled- do you think I should just tell him my situation or is there a particular law or deficiency I should state?

My full situation for the first marriage- I don’t believe she was ever baptized. I was.

She had issues at home when she was roughly 16-17 years old and moved in with me and my family. Separate rooms until we were both 18. I wanted to get out of the relationship but felt that she was dependent upon me and the situation was tolerable. She was on birth control but still got pregnant so we decided to get married when I was 23. It seemed like the right thing to do. Neither of us practiced our faith or had any understanding of what the church would consider a valid marriage when we gave our vows. Only went through the process the way we were told to by I someone I believe was a preacher and only met with the day of the wedding. Seems like he was a friend of someone in her family. After our second child she started taking anti-depressants and just never seemed to “be there” anymore. Just emotionally blank. I was living as a robot and just going through the motions and eventually decided that I was getting older and if I ever wanted to truly be happy I needed to get out of the house and get a divorce, so we did.

Any suggestions on how I should handle my first conversation with the priest?

Yes. Tell HIM all that stuff. Fascinating as it is, it’s none of my business, and I’m not the one deciding your case.

An appropriate greeting is, Hi, I’m ___. My fiancée is Catholic and is insisting we be married in the Church. I understand I need to have my previous marriage investigated before we start making any definite plans." He’ll take it from there but don’t be afraid to share all the details, just as you have here. He’s the one who can do something with the information to assist you.

 

[dans0622]

…
I’ve never spoke to a priest before so is there any advice on what to expect? I’m guessing I should address him as Father? I imagine he’ll ask me why I think the marriage should be annulled- do you think I should just tell him my situation or is there a particular law or deficiency I should state?

…

Any suggestions on how I should handle my first conversation with the priest?

Hello,

Yes, in conversation, we address priests as “Fr. (family name)”.

It seems to me that the first thing to do is to tell him why you are calling–you are not Catholic, have been married and divorced, and now are looking at marrying a Catholic. You think that you need “an annulment.” You don’t know what to do next.

He should know what to do next. If he does not deal with these matters, he should be able to put you in touch with someone who does (either on the parish or diocesan level).

Will he get into details about the marriage and divorce? I would tend to think not…not in the first conversation (yes, there are certainly going to be more, either with him or someone else)…but you never know.

Dan

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Yes. Tell HIM all that stuff. Fascinating as it is, it’s none of my business, and I’m not the one deciding your case.

An appropriate greeting is, Hi, I’m ___. My fiancée is Catholic and is insisting we be married in the Church. I understand I need to have my previous marriage investigated before we start making any definite plans." He’ll take it from there but don’t be afraid to share all the details, just as you have here. He’s the one who can do something with the information to assist you.

Sounds like a plan. Wasn’t sure if there was anything about my situation, that if asked why I think it should be found invalid, I could state on the grounds of x, y, and or z.

I was also wondering how the Church feels that they are the only ones that can make this ruling as to whether it meets God’s version of a valid marriage? I mean, if I know in my heart that the my first marriage came about under terms that didn’t meet the requirements to be considered valid by what I’ve learned in the last week or so, how does the Church feel that it has authority to say yes or no? I think it would be clear to the Church that if anyone got divorced and wanted to get married again, that person obviously didn’t understand how serious and binding marriage is. Just thinking out loud.

 

[E_7]

We want to cohabitate to over come the financial hardships it would take on for to move and live on her own.

Q) what will the Church think of this? I know it’s not popular with the Church to cohabitate before marriage but it makes sense to me to do it this way so we can go though the process as a team.

Thank you for again for helping me get a better understand of my circumstance

My husband and I met here in CAF, we were physically oceans away. We courted, got engaged and did all marriage process in long-distance, except the weekend marriage prep course at Engaged Encounter when I came to visit him for a month. I graduated, days later he came to my country and the week after, we got married. Honeymoon in Disney where we had sex for our first time. And we lived in FL then Asia, and now in the US. There was no need nor excuse for cohabitation.

You do know that you would be in an occasion of sin if you cohabitate?

On the other hand,

What social science says about cohabitation

On average, marriage preceded by cohabitation is 46% more likely to end in divorce.
The risk is greatest for “serial” cohabitors who have had multiple relationships.
Some studies indicate that those who live together with definite plans for marriage are at minimal risk; however, there are no positive effects from cohabiting.
Cohabitation puts children at risk. Forty percent of cohabiting households include children. After five years, one-half of these couples will have broken up, compared to 15% of married parents. says foryourmarriage

 

[SpaceMonkey]

You do know that you would be in an occasion of sin if you cohabitate?

Perhaps I don’t know this. Is it a sin to be in an occasion of sin? This terminology is a little confusing. Is this saying that I’m putting myself in a situation where sin could occasionally occur? I’m not Catholic and have my own relationship with God, as ignorant as it seem to some Catholics, and I’ve been told plenty of times on the forum now, I got it, no cohabitation but let me ask, if you cohabitate and do not have sex, is that a sin? We’re working on a solution that will let her move to my area and not have to live on the streets or in her car. As far as I know we all sin. An old man once told me that there as only one person to ever walk this earth and they nailed him to a cross. I’m hear to learn more about the Catholics and what I need to do to make sure my fiancée can be in good standing with her religion and not necessarily to be converted.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

What social science says about cohabitation

On average, marriage preceded by cohabitation is 46% more likely to end in divorce.
The risk is greatest for “serial” cohabitors who have had multiple relationships.
Some studies indicate that those who live together with definite plans for marriage are at minimal risk; however, there are no positive effects from cohabiting.
Cohabitation puts children at risk. Forty percent of cohabiting households include children. After five years, one-half of these couples will have broken up, compared to 15% of married parents. says foryourmarriage

I’ve read some of these stats other places too but anytime I see things like this I know that the questions and the sampling can be heavily skewed. I also don’t believe in man made climate change so… Just saying that I don’t believe everything I read and I don’t apply statistics to everyone. We really are trying to find another solution and cohabitating was our original plan but we’re flexible in what we will be doing from now until marriage. I’m old enough that if I have to wait a year to or however long to be sexual active with her, I’ll survive.

 

[Usige]

Sounds like a plan. Wasn’t sure if there was anything about my situation, that if asked why I think it should be found invalid, I could state on the grounds of x, y, and or z.

I woukd just layout the facts without trying to build a specific case. From there the conversation would explore possible grounds for annulment. Don’t try to focus on one or two specifics since there might be other grounds you might not have considered. You can always ask if situation X might be pertinent, but don’t hang your hat on any specific point at the beginning.

I was also wondering how the Church feels that they are the only ones that can make this ruling as to whether it meets God’s version of a valid marriage? I mean, if I know in my heart that the my first marriage came about under terms that didn’t meet the requirements to be considered valid by what I’ve learned in the last week or so, how does the Church feel that it has authority to say yes or no? I think it would be clear to the Church that if anyone got divorced and wanted to get married again, that person obviously didn’t understand how serious and binding marriage is. Just thinking out loud.

The primary reason is that the Church (via the tribunal) should basically be an impartial party that simply weighs facts. Unfortunately the parties involved will never be completely impartial. We humans are very good at making the facts fit what we feel. Say someone got divorced because the cute secretary was nicer than his wife. We could delude ourselves into saying, “well if I truly loved my first wife I would have never had an affair with a woman 15 years younger.” There are things we can see in hind sight that we might see that prove there were problems, but sometimes (maybe even often) that is colored by years of emotional baggage that might be distortion rather than truth. The whole purpose of investing a marraige is to see if a marriage was validly made, not to see if a valid marriage later went south.

Why only the Church? I would say it goes back to where Christ talked about Moses allowing divorce because of the hardness of heart. If not the Church, who would guard against divorce for hardness of heart?

 

[Usige]

Perhaps I don’t know this. Is it a sin to be in an occasion of sin? This terminology is a little confusing. Is this saying that I’m putting myself in a situation where sin could occasionally occur? I’m not Catholic and have my own relationship with God, as ignorant as it seem to some Catholics, and I’ve been told plenty of times on the forum now, I got it, no cohabitation but let me ask, if you cohabitate and do not have sex, is that a sin? We’re working on a solution that will let her move to my area and not have to live on the streets or in her car. As far as I know we all sin. An old man once told me that there as only one person to ever walk this earth and they nailed him to a cross. I’m hear to learn more about the Catholics and what I need to do to make sure my fiancée can be in good standing with her religion and not necessarily to be converted.

It is sinful to constantly put yourself in the near occasion of sin. The way it was explained to me is that it can be seen as challenging God to test you. We are told not to test God.

What is a near occasion of sin? We all have sins that we are more attached to. In otherwords we each have temprations to do wrong. A near occasion of sin is to place yourself into a situation where that temptation will likely be present. For instance if you are tempted to lust from viewing women in bathing suits then hanging out at the pool could be a near occasion of sin. If tempted to gossip then hanging out in a break room with those you know will dish dirt could be the near occasion of sin. It’s all about placing yourself in situations where you know there is a good chance you will fall into sin.

If you cohabitate without the intent to have sex it might be a near occasion of sin (i.e. seeing your future spouse in the shower causing lust). Perhaps living together would not lead either of you to temptation so it wouldn’t be a near occasion of sin. That being said it could be the sin of scandal. This sin is acts that could lead others to sin by your example. Given that most cohabitating couples are sexual active it can give others the impression that you approve of fornication. That isn’t the best way to describe scandal, but it’s really about actions that give the appearance of sin that therefore lead others to sin.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I woukd just layout the facts without trying to build a specific case. From there the conversation would explore possible grounds for annulment. Don’t try to focus on one or two specifics since there might be other grounds you might not have considered. You can always ask if situation X might be pertinent, but don’t hang your hat on any specific point at the beginning.

Thank you. This is how I will approach it. Sounds like the priest will more like a lawyer listening to my situation to see if I have a case to take to court and not so much the judge and jury that I’m trying to prove my innocence to.

**]Say someone got divorced because the cute secretary was nicer than his wife. We could delude ourselves into saying, “well if I truly loved my first wife I would have never had an affair with a woman 15 years younger.” There are things we can see in hind sight that we might see that prove there were problems, but sometimes (maybe even often) that is colored by years of emotional baggage that might be distortion rather than truth. **

But what if the secretary was really, really cute?

What you say here makes sense and has some validity. I see why their would need to be someone independent to review, just still not 100% that the Church should be the only entity on Earth that can make that call. Not that they shouldn’t be able to and I get why Catholics would feel that way but seems like others might feel they have the same intellect to make a non bias ruling.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

It is sinful to constantly put yourself in the near occasion of sin. The way it was explained to me is that it can be seen as challenging God to test you. We are told not to test God.

What is a near occasion of sin? We all have sins that we are more attached to. In otherwords we each have temprations to do wrong. A near occasion of sin is to place yourself into a situation where that temptation will likely be present. For instance if you are tempted to lust from viewing women in bathing suits then hanging out at the pool could be a near occasion of sin. If tempted to gossip then hanging out in a break room with those you know will dish dirt could be the near occasion of sin. It’s all about placing yourself in situations where you know there is a good chance you will fall into sin.

If you cohabitate without the intent to have sex it might be a near occasion of sin (i.e. seeing your future spouse in the shower causing lust). Perhaps living together would not lead either of you to temptation so it wouldn’t be a near occasion of sin. That being said it could be the sin of scandal. This sin is acts that could lead others to sin by your example. Given that most cohabitating couples are sexual active it can give others the impression that you approve of fornication. That isn’t the best way to describe scandal, but it’s really about actions that give the appearance of sin that therefore lead others to sin.

Sorry for not knowing how to break up a post in separate quotes.

This seems like a grey area to me. I believe that we all sin, pretty much daily, whether it be gluttony, lust, or envy and if we ask for forgiveness for those sins they will be forgiven. Getting into which sin is a near occasion, almost a sin or just an every day sin is something I’m going to have trouble with.

 

[Usige]

Thank you. This is how I will approach it. Sounds like the priest will more like a lawyer listening to my situation to see if I have a case to take to court and not so much the judge and jury that I’m trying to prove my innocence to.

You might think of the priest that way, but even the thought of the priest like a lawyer is probably even overstating it. Dan, as our resident canon lawyer, some of the priests, or knowledgeable laymen (alarm 1ke) can give a better response, but in most diocese the local priest will help get the ball rolling, but then often steps out of the way. One of the people that you will likely spend the most time with is you advocate. This is someone that will help you prepare the paperwork, navigate any procedures, etc. This might be a priest, deacon or trained laymen. They generally are not canon lawyers, but are trained in the specifics of marriage law. So the priest will help perhaps put things in context, but the work with the advocate is where most of the leg work will happen.

What you say here makes sense and has some validity. I see why their would need to be someone independent to review, just still not 100% that the Church should be the only entity on Earth that can make that call. Not that they shouldn’t be able to and I get why Catholics would feel that way but seems like others might feel they have the same intellect to make a non bias ruling.

Part of it is that the Church would say she holds the fullness of the teachings of Christ. I have been trying to think of a gentle way to say this, but I guess the problem is many Christian communities have abandoned parts of the truth. I don’t mean that to be inflamitory, but it’s meant to express the fact that the Church sees many communities that have done the same thing as Moses where they have allowed the understanding of marriage to become corrupted because of a hardness of heart. They have modified the meaning of marriage to conform to the fallen nature of man rather than trying to live up to God’s plan for marriage.

Because many communities view of marriage suffer from deficiencies, they cannot be considered to be capable of judging the validity of a marriage. Think of it as a town that thinks speed limits should not exist. Should they then judge if the state patrol validly issues a ticket for going 90 in a 35? If you cannot agree on what marriage is, then it is hard to trust that another entity is considering all things that Catholics hold as core to a valid marriage.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thank you all again for your insight. I’ve sent an email to the local church using their contact page and also left a message for a call back from the priest. y

I’ve never spoke to a priest before so is there any advice on what to expect? I’m guessing I should address him as Father? I imagine he’ll ask me why I think the marriage should be annulled- do you think I should just tell him my situation or is there a particular law or deficiency I should state?

My full situation for the first marriage- I don’t believe she was ever baptized. I was.

She had issues at home when she was roughly 16-17 years old and moved in with me and my family. Separate rooms until we were both 18. I wanted to get out of the relationship but felt that she was dependent upon me and the situation was tolerable. She was on birth control but still got pregnant so we decided to get married when I was 23. It seemed like the right thing to do. Neither of us practiced our faith or had any understanding of what the church would consider a valid marriage when we gave our vows. Only went through the process the way we were told to by I someone I believe was a preacher and only met with the day of the wedding. Seems like he was a friend of someone in her family. After our second child she started taking anti-depressants and just never seemed to “be there” anymore. Just emotionally blank. I was living as a robot and just going through the motions and eventually decided that I was getting older and if I ever wanted to truly be happy I needed to get out of the house and get a divorce, so we did.

Any suggestions on how I should handle m first conversation with the priest?

I would be perfectly natural. When I met with non-Catholics, I had no expectation of protocol and I would work to put the person at ease. I would hope this priest would be the same. We understanding these processes are difficult for Catholics…let alone non-Catholics. I would allow him to guide the conversation since he will have had this sort of situation before, assuredly. What you have related here in this post will be very important and very helpful for him, actually.

If perchance it is problematic in any way, there are other priests so don’t be overly anxious. Not all of us are equally pastoral.

Which brings up a point. Before your fiancee moves…is there any prospect that she may wish to be married there where she is presently? I am thinking, for example, if she is presently in her home parish and if that is where her family might be. Just because she is moving to where you are and plans to live there in the future, she could still choose to be married in the place that is where she is living presently.

If she has that desire, she should manifest that to that other priest now. If this is a priest she is comfortable with and has worked with in her life, that may be a more comfortable situation for her and even for you. Jurisdiction for examining your marriage case could even be relocated to there. There are options, in other words.

Another point that is important: you should try to ascertain if there was any possibility that your former wife could have been baptised Catholic in infancy and her parents stopped practicing Catholicism. That would be very important because if it were true and proven, your prior marriage would be definitively invalid on the grounds of canonical form, even though she never knew she was Catholic, and the investigation is not necessary in that circumstance. It becomes a simple administrative process.

 

[Usige]

Sorry for not knowing how to break up a post in separate quotes.

This seems like a grey area to me. I believe that we all sin, pretty much daily, whether it be gluttony, lust, or envy and if we ask for forgiveness for those sins they will be forgiven. Getting into which sin is a near occasion, almost a sin or just an every day sin is something I’m going to have trouble with.

It is certainly something that takes work.

I try not to focus on what degree of sin something is. If I know something is sinful I try to avoid it. If there are certain situations that I know lead me towards sin I try to recognize that and avoid it too. I am not talking about being scupulous and seeing sin, where no sin exists, but trying to be cognizant where I do things in love of myself rather than out of love for God. None of us will be perfect at it, but it’s really about saying “God I love you and do not want to hurt you. I am sorry and will try to do better.” It is not enough to simply say I’m sorry. We have to have firm intent to stop hurting our relationship with God.

I know that likely doesn’t help much. It’s a little like a parent saying “don’t touch that or you’ll get burned” when a kid has never been burned. If you have not experienced a love of God that wants good for his sake it is hard to see how our sins can hurt him. I’m sure this is not theologically correct, but everytime I sin I think of myself as swinging the hammer that nails Christ to the Cross. To me it doesn’t matter if I am swinging full force or tapping the nail, I still wound someone that I should love before all else. Near occasion of sin is like standing there with the hammer even if I am not hitting a nail. It is the potential to hurt him that can turn my stomach.

This isn’t something that simply came to me, but is part of how my love of Christ has grown over the years. It is something that requires a frank examination of our self. Even at that I often delude myself into thinking the boulder in the field is really nothing but a peeple.

 

[jmcrae]

I woukd just layout the facts without trying to build a specific case. From there the conversation would explore possible grounds for annulment. Don’t try to focus on one or two specifics since there might be other grounds you might not have considered. You can always ask if situation X might be pertinent, but don’t hang your hat on any specific point at the beginning.

Thank you. This is how I will approach it. Sounds like the priest will more like a lawyer listening to my situation to see if I have a case to take to court and not so much the judge and jury that I’m trying to prove my innocence to.

**]Say someone got divorced because the cute secretary was nicer than his wife. We could delude ourselves into saying, “well if I truly loved my first wife I would have never had an affair with a woman 15 years younger.” There are things we can see in hind sight that we might see that prove there were problems, but sometimes (maybe even often) that is colored by years of emotional baggage that might be distortion rather than truth. **

But what if the secretary was really, really cute?

What you say here makes sense and has some validity. I see why their would need to be someone independent to review, just still not 100% that the Church should be the only entity on Earth that can make that call. Not that they shouldn’t be able to and I get why Catholics would feel that way but seems like others might feel they have the same intellect to make a non bias ruling.

Our first Pope, St. Peter, was given God’s authority to make these decisions when Jesus told him, what thou bind on Earth is bound in Heaven. (You makes the rules, God enforces them.) What thou loose on Earth is loosed in Heaven. (You say it’s okay, God says it’s okay.)

St. Peter transmitted that authority to all of the Popes who came after him, and the Pope shares it in various degrees with the other leaders of the Church.

This doesn’t mean that he just gets to make stuff up, though. He has to ensure that the rules he makes conform with the teachings of Christ and the practices of the Apostles. That’s why divorce and remarriage will never be allowed in the Church - because Jesus clearly forbids it.

 

[E_7]

Perhaps I don’t know this. Is it a sin to be in an occasion of sin? This terminology is a little confusing. Is this saying that I’m putting myself in a situation where sin could occasionally occur? I’m not Catholic and have my own relationship with God, as ignorant as it seem to some Catholics, and I’ve been told plenty of times on the forum now, I got it, no cohabitation but let me ask, if you cohabitate and do not have sex, is that a sin? We’re working on a solution that will let her move to my area and not have to live on the streets or in her car. As far as I know we all sin. An old man once told me that there as only one person to ever walk this earth and they nailed him to a cross. I’m hear to learn more about the Catholics and what I need to do to make sure my fiancée can be in good standing with her religion and not necessarily to be converted.

No problem. I found this and hope it helps a bit:
Occasions of Sin

Is defined as, “Any person, place or thing which allures a man to sin.” (Definition from A Catholic Dictionary, 1951). Another definition: “Occasions of Sin are external circumstances–whether of things or persons–which either because of their special nature or because of the frailty common to humanity or peculiar to some individual, incite or entice one to sin.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 1917)

    References to Occasions of Sin In Scripture:

• A hard heart shall fear evil at the last: and he that loveth danger shall perish in it. Ecclesiasticus 3:27

•         Look not upon a woman that hath a mind for many: lest thou fall into her snares. Use not much the company of her that is a dancer, and hearken not to her, lest thou perish by the force of her charms. Gaze not upon a maiden, lest her beauty be a stumblingblock to thee. Look not round about thee in the of the city, nor wander up and down in the streets thereof. Turn away thy face from a woman dressed up, and gaze not about upon another's beauty. For many have perished by the beauty of a woman, and hereby lust is enkindled as a fire. Many by admiring the beauty of another man's wife, have become reprobate, for her conversation burneth as fire. Sit not at all with another man's wife, nor repose upon the bed with her: And strive not with her over wine, lest thy heart decline towards her, and by thy blood thou fall into destruction. Ecclesiasticus 9:3-5, 7-9, 11-13

•         "And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell. And if thy right hand scandalize thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell" Matthew 5:29-30
  
  
         
  
    Church Teaching on Occasions of Sin:

• “Hence if the circumstances suggest it, it may be necessary to remind them of that well-known precept of the natural and divine law, which commands us to avoid not only sins but the next occasion of sin as well” Encyclical on Mixed Marriages by Pope Gregory XVI, 1832

•         "On this point it should be noted, as indeed the Fathers and Doctors of the Church teach, that we can more easily struggle against and repress the wiles of evil and the enticements of the passions if we do not struggle directly against them, but rather flee from them as best we may. For the preserving of chastity, according to the teaching of Jerome, flight is more effective than open warfare: "Therefore I flee, lest I be overcome."[92] Flight must be understood in this sense, that not only do we diligently avoid occasion of sin, but especially that in struggles of this kind we lift our minds and hearts to God...." ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII ON CONSECRATED VIRGINITY MARCH 25, 1954

•         "Again, to satisfy is to cut off all occasions of sin, and to close every avenue against its suggestions" Catechism of Council of Trent, Sacrament of Penance

•         "Finally, we pray that God would remove all occasions of sin and iniquity" Catechism of Council of Trent, The Lord's Prayer

•         "Theologians distinguish between the proximate and the remote occasion. They are not altogether at one as to the precise value to be attributed to the terms. De Lugo defines proximate occasion (De poenit. disp. 14, n. 149) as one in which men of like calibre for the most part fall into mortal sin, or one in which experience points to the same result from the special weakness of a particular person. The remote occasion lacks these elements. All theologians are agreed that there is no obligation to avoid the remote occasions of sin both because this would, practically speaking, be impossible and because they do not involve serious danger of sin." Catholic Encyclopedia (1917), Occasions of Sin

•         "It is certain that one who is in the presence of a proximate occasion at once voluntary and continuous is bound to remove it. A refusal on the part of a penitent to do so would make it imperative for the confessor to deny absolution." Catholic Encyclopedia (1917), Occasions of Sin

Summary
**
Scripture and Church teaching make it clear that it is a sin in itself to put ourselves intentionally or needlessly in an occasion of sin, and we must all avoid it. Anyone who believes otherwise cannot say they are Catholic**!
catholicessentials.net/occasionsofsin.htm

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I can appreciate your studies and commitment to the teachings of the Catholic Church but again, I’m not catholic. I read the scriptures and still believe if I accept Christ as my saviour and ask for forgiveness from God I won’t have to pluck out my eyes and cut off my hands. I don’t see Catholics are self mutilating that in the news very often.

I did receive a call from the local priest so this is good news. I’m excited to meet with him and start on this journey. I think once I am able to hopefully get my previous marriage annulled the marriage prep is going to be very insightfull and only make us stronger. I was able to stay with her for a week in the hospital after she had a major heart surgery and it was such a bonding experience that I think learning more about her faith and more about what a string marriage really takes its gonna be a good life

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I can appreciate your studies and commitment to the teachings of the Catholic Church but again, I’m not catholic. I read the scriptures and still believe if I accept Christ as my saviour and ask for forgiveness from God I won’t have to pluck out my eyes and cut off my hands. I don’t see Catholics are self mutilating that in the news very often.

I did receive a call from the local priest so this is good news. I’m excited to meet with him and start on this journey. I think once I am able to hopefully get my previous marriage annulled the marriage prep is going to be very insightfull and only make us stronger. I was able to stay with her for a week in the hospital after she had a major heart surgery and it was such a bonding experience that I think learning more about her faith and more about what a string marriage really takes its gonna be a good life

Indeed you are not Catholic. You, of course, have your own relationship with the Lord and that is to be completely respected.

I return to compliment you that you are open to learning more about the faith of your fiancee, while you live your own, and also to undergoing the process that we have within the Catholic Church to address your prior marriage so that the marriage between you and your fiancee could take place according to our practices.

I assure you of my prayers that the first meeting with the priest in your area may go very well indeed and that your fiancee fully and completely recovers from her heart surgery.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Thank you. Prayers are always welcome. I don’t think she’d be here today if it weren’t for a lot of praying, specifically a prayer for the sick. I spent a month or more straight on my begging for his pitiful mercy to heal her and he did. He guided the surgeons and gave them the wisdom to make the right decisions to keep put her back together and allow me the opportunity to have some time with her here on earth before hopefully we get to spend eternity together