Help/advice needed - vasectomy related

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tr1strev, please do not think you are going to hell for having a vasectomy. God is benevolent, all kind and loving. It makes absolutely no sense at all to even entertain the notion that God would sentence you to hell for doing what you felt right by your family.

eta: My guilt over this is not about going to hell or heaven… more so about pleasing God and like I said earlier, sentencing my husband to many more days in purgatory to purify himself before entering the Kingdom. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he will eventually make his way into heaven with or without a vasectomy. Or even if I had my tubes tied, there isn’t a bone in my body that doesn’t believe that one day I would still be with my creator. To be told otherwise is not only wrong, it’s cruel.
 
Peacefulwishes said:
tr1strev, please do not think you are going to hell for having a vasectomy. God is benevolent, all kind and loving. It makes absolutely no sense at all to even entertain the notion that God would sentence you to hell for doing what you felt right by your family.

eta: My guilt over this is not about going to hell or heaven… more so about pleasing God and like I said earlier, sentencing my husband to many more days in purgatory to purify himself before entering the Kingdom. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he will eventually make his way into heaven with or without a vasectomy. Or even if I had my tubes tied, there isn’t a bone in my body that doesn’t believe that one day I would still be with my creator. To be told otherwise is not only wrong, it’s cruel.
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No, I don’t think that. I prayed about it and I know that God is aware of what was in my heart. My problem is with some of the people here who are so quick to condemn which is why I originally was concerned and advised you to do what was right for your family after prayerful contemplation about your future and not what some on these threads say. Good luck and my prayers to you and yours.
 
Thank you. 🙂

This brings me back to topic. I have another question to ponder. Our reasons for not wanting anymore children are not because of disabilities, or severe health issues, or poverty, or anything dire like that. Are they selfish? No, don’t answer that. I’m not sure I want to know. :confused:

eta: suggestions for scriptures for meditations greatly appreciated! I think I need to do a bit - no, a lot! - of praying!! But I don’t know where to turn, or where to start…
 
Peacefulwishes said:
tr1strev, please do not think you are going to hell for having a vasectomy. God is benevolent, all kind and loving. It makes absolutely no sense at all to even entertain the notion that God would sentence you to hell for doing what you felt right by your family.

eta: My guilt over this is not about going to hell or heaven… more so about pleasing God and like I said earlier, sentencing my husband to many more days in purgatory to purify himself before entering the Kingdom. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he will eventually make his way into heaven with or without a vasectomy. Or even if I had my tubes tied, there isn’t a bone in my body that doesn’t believe that one day I would still be with my creator. To be told otherwise is not only wrong, it’s cruel.
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Hi, you are a new Catholic and I hope you understand something. All of us are sinners, I myself have committed lots of sins, lots of mortal sins… The Lord is just and merciful. If we aren’t sorry for our sins,we are the ones spreading ourselves from God.

You have 2 small children. Could you imagine never loving them? Of course not. Let’s pretend in 20 years you have an argument, and you stop talking. You decide that you want to make up with them and invite them over. You prepare a meal set the table and are all excited to see them. They don’t show up. They don’t call. Did you stop loving them? Of course not. How is the relationship? Then 2 weeks later they call, say they are sorry. You would forgive them entirely. That’s how God works.

He gave us the Church to guide us to Him. That’s what we believe.

As for the vasectomy. Babies don’t stay babies very long. Thy grow bigger, and the tasks change, not really easier but change. Maybe you aren’t called to have another baby now. Having a vasectomy closes that door completely.

I have a preemie in the NICU. Last year I thought I had a whole bunch of serious reasons to avoid having a baby, health, financial etc. Now, I love my little baby incredibly. We might be facing incredible hospital bills, but we don’t care. My little son is worth so much.

Hope that helps.
 
Peacefulwishes- the fact that you have guilt says something extremely important. Now, if you are looking for a site or resource to take away your guilt, if you look long enough you will find it. That doesn’t make it the best choice.
As for NFP. It isn’t perfect (although it is as perfect or better than contraception) and no resource or opinion will make it easy or work exactly as how you want it. What the Church tells us is that NFP is the best thing out there and that you have a community in the Church that will help you and your husband in whatever circumstances you encounter on your road through life.
 
Oy. I am glad I found this site, that is the truth. I think I am hearing exactly what I needed to hear…what I knew but didn’t want to admit.

Mary Gail, I am so sorry your babe is in the NICU! Oh bless his heart! And yours too, what a struggle that is.

I am not having a good comprehension day. Maybe it is information overload as I have spent all of “nap time” on this site indulging in information I never knew on so many different Catholic topics! Questions I’ve always wondered are answered here. I wish I had found this site years ago! But anyway, Mary Gail, I am not 100% sure what message you are trying to send to me. I’m a bit thickheaded, forgive me!

Deadlift - agreed. Thank you for caring and encouraging me with the NFP.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, in paragraph no. 2399, that while regulation of births is an aspect of responsible parenthood, “Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).”

Here’s a quote:

Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:
 
Thank you for that!

So the question is then, does anything deemed “immoral” become a mortal sin?
 
Peacefulwishes said:
Pax, with all due respect sir, having a vasectomy does not condemn you to hell. Who has made you to believe that? Why would you think that having a vasectomy is a mortal sin? Lead me to your sources, please! I am intrigued!

.
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CCC quotes in BLUE.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2051.htm

**2051 **The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.

The Church is infallible in teaching with regard to Faith and Morals. This is a moral issue, therefore, the teaching is NOT “of man” but directly from God.

If one dies in a state of mortal sin, one goes to hell. That is the teaching of the Church.

Mortal sin requries three things:

Grave matter (something that is intrinsicly evil is grave matter)

Knowledge

Consent

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160 **2399 **The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).

Sterilization is grave matter, so, if you know it is grave matter and you consent to it, it meets the qualifications for mortal sin.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2399.htm

To go have a vasectomy saying “I know it is mortal sin, I will just go to Confession after” compounds the sin by adding the grave sin of presumption.

Any of the things I have said here can be verified using the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and by reading the documents (magesterial and scriptural) cited in the footnotes.

Here is a link to the search engine.
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

The CCC is authoritative, Catholicism for Dummies is informative but NOT authortitive.
 
Well there you have it! THANK YOU!

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse. But what if - just what if - you have problems believing that the Church’s doctrines - any of them - are infallible?

I have a hard enough time believing the BIBLE is infallible.
 
Peacefulwishes said:
Well there you have it! THANK YOU!

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse. But what if - just what if - you have problems believing that the Church’s doctrines - any of them - are infallible?

I have a hard enough time believing the BIBLE is infallible.
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You said that you are a new Convert, so, I am going to assume you came in at the Easter Vigil. You stood there and part of that profession of faith was that you believed all that is taught by the Catholic Church. Seems that your RCIA team may have failed in teaching you those things?

When you lack faith, pray to God that He increase your faith. “Lord I believe, help my unbelief” is a good prayer.

Accept that Jesus knows more than you do (as I am sure you do) and that He loves you so much that He gave you a Church to guide you - so, pray that God open your eyes, so you really DO believe all that is held and taught by the Holy Catholic Church!

Read more - let me see, a book on authority might help? Try this one by Mark Shea.

google.com/books?id=KAR_-rRWOV4C&dq=by+what+authority&printsec=frontcover&source=bn

BTW, what was your church before your Conversion (helps in pointing out resources…)
 
Peacefulwishes said:
Well there you have it! THANK YOU!

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse. But what if - just what if - you have problems believing that the Church’s doctrines - any of them - are infallible?

I have a hard enough time believing the BIBLE is infallible.
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There are many a cradle Catholic that has done all the sacraments and share your skepticism of the church’s infallibility.

The church has admitted many many mistakes over the centuries. But those pronouncements we make concerning faith and moral issues are infallible.🤷
 
I didn’t really have a Church before I was baptized, but was raised Mormon. Left the LDS church as a teen and went on my own spiritual crusade. My husband is Catholic and although he never pressured me to join, I did on my own free will after the baptism of our first daughter.

I came to the Church not really because of any specific reason. I came because I wanted to be in unity with my family. And besides that, the more I learned about the Church, the more intrigued I became. The Church has a very deep and profound history and I think that more than anything else captivates me.

I was taught in RCIA that there were three rules in order to be a Catholic. Those were to (not necessarily in any order) 1)Only one God 2)Belief in the Trinity and 3)Belief in Dogma

Catholic teachings - i.e. Doctrines - are man made conceptions based on what we know of Dogma. You do not need to believe all of the Catholics teachings in order to be a Catholic, however in order to be a good Catholic you would obey them all.

I think the analogy used in class was traffic law. It is against the law to speed, but if you do it, that doesn’t mean you are less of an American. Though by abiding by the speed limit laws, you are a better American.

This is why I am confused to why some of you are saying that sterilization is a mortal sin, when it is not breaking a commandment?
 
Peacefulwishes said:
I was taught in RCIA that there were three rules in order to be a Catholic. Those were to (not necessarily in any order) 1)Only one God 2)Belief in the Trinity and 3)Belief in Dogma

Catholic teachings - i.e. Doctrines - are man made conceptions based on what we know of Dogma. You do not need to believe all of the Catholics teachings in order to be a Catholic, however in order to be a good Catholic you would obey them all.

I think the analogy used in class was traffic law. It is against the law to speed, but if you do it, that doesn’t mean you are less of an American. Though by abiding by the speed limit laws, you are a better American.
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Wow! As someone on an RCIA team, I am soooo sorry!

We Catholics are required to accept and follow all the doctrine and dogma of the Church, this includes the Scripture and the teaching of the Magusterium.

A good place for you to begin to learn would be here:

scripturecatholic.com/

or here

catechismclass.com/index.php?id=8
Peacefulwishes said:
This is why I am confused to why some of you are saying that sterilization is a mortal sin, when it is not breaking a commandment?
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The 10 commandments are the basis for all moral law.
 
Thanks for those links, I will have to take some time to study up on them.

Which commandment is a vasectomy or tubal ligation breaking?
 
Peacefulwishes said:
Thanks for those links, I will have to take some time to study up on them.

Which commandment is a vasectomy or tubal ligation breaking?
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The Sixth if you are talking about the 10 Commandments.

We have also been commanded to obey those set in authority over us, that commandment is broken as well. Christ commanded us to love God with all our heart mind and strenght, by turning our back on God’s Church, we do not exhibit that love.

Here is one good Examination of Conscience for Confession of Sins, you can find many more that are based on the 10 commandments.

scborromeo.org/confess.htm
 
How is sterilization breaking the sixth commandment, exactly? If you are saying it is somehow related to adultery or lust, I just don’t see the connection. Please explain further?

And which commandment says we must obey anyone or anything over God? In fact I think that is directly opposite of the very first commandment, is it not?
 
Peacefulwishes said:
How is sterilization breaking the sixth commandment, exactly? If you are saying it is somehow related to adultery or lust, I just don’t see the connection. Please explain further?

And which commandment says we must obey anyone or anything over God? In fact I think that is directly opposite of the very first commandment, is it not?
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Christ gave us the Church here on earth. Obeying the church IS obeying God
 
Peacefulwishes said:
Pax, with all due respect sir, having a vasectomy does not condemn you to hell. Who has made you to believe that? Why would you think that having a vasectomy is a mortal sin? Lead me to your sources, please! I am intrigued!

It is canon law to abstain from contraception, yes. But Canon law is a law made by MAN. NOT God. Therefor it can not be a mortal sin to refrain from abiding by Canon Law.
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First, I am a she, not a he. And, my username is 1ke, not Pax. Pax is a saluation.

Um, no, it is not Canon Law that requires refraining from contraception and sterilization. I am not sure where you got that idea. This is nowhere mentioned in canon law. (And, Canon Law is contains both items of a disciplinary nature and divine law commandments. And, disobeying what the Church proscribes in canon law is itself grave matter.)

It is the Sixth Commandment that prohibits contraception and sterilization. Sterilization and contraception are grave sins against the Sixth Commandment. See the Catechism explanations on the Sixth Commandment. I suggest reviewing the whole thing, but particularly paragraphs 2370 and 2399.

Here is 2399: 2399 The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood.** Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception). **
Peacefulwishes said:
This may sound silly, but follow along… In Catholicism for Dummies (which is an approved reading material) it clearly outlines causes of mortal sin. I don’t have a copy in front of me but I don’t think that breaking canon law is one of them.
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Catholicism for Dummies is not a Church document. It is generally reliable. But, I believe you are (a) looking at the wrong section and (b) misinformed as to the grave matter involved in disobeying Church authority, which includes Canon Law.
 
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