Help/advice needed - vasectomy related

[1ke]

Space their children? What if she or anyone simply doesn’t want anymore children? What, like in my case, if I simply did not want another child with such disabilities that it would simply bankrupt me and condemn my other children to poverty if I did so.

Spacing can be *indefinite *(see Humanae Vitae) if there is a just reason.

Should I never have sex again with my wife?

As I have alread noted, you can use natural family planning.

Am I going to Hell?

I do not know the answer to that question.

I hope you will get some spiritual counseling regarding the grave nature of your choice to sterilize yourself.

 

[1ke]

Thank you for that!

So the question is then, does anything deemed “immoral” become a mortal sin?

Sins against the Ten Commandments are indeed grave matter and mortal sins if done with full knowledge and free will.

Not *every *sin is grave matter. But, sins against the Ten Commandments ARE.

 

[1ke]

Well there you have it! THANK YOU!

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse. But what if - just what if - you have problems believing that the Church’s doctrines - any of them - are infallible?

Then you need to study some more. The Church teaches the Truth with the authority of Christ himself and cannot teach error. The purpose of the Church is to lead everyone to Heaven. Christ founded his Church to teach the Truth and to administer the Sacraments by which we receive grace.

You say you are a new Catholic, and welcome to the Church! Did your RCIA classes not cover these subjects? RCIA should have covered these basic aspects of Catholicism before you joined the Church.

I have a hard enough time believing the BIBLE is infallible.

The bible is not infallible.

The bible is **inerrant **in matters of faith and morals.

 

[1ke]

How is sterilization breaking the sixth commandment, exactly? If you are saying it is somehow related to adultery or lust, I just don’t see the connection. Please explain further?

Please read the entire Catechism section we have linked you to on the Sixth Commandment, and the chapter on the Sixth Commandment in your Dummies book.

The Sixth Commandment deals with the proper use of our sexuality, not “adultery.” That is merely a shorthand rendering. The Sixth Commandment is a commandment against **ALL **sexual sins, and a exhortation to chastity in our state of life.

 

[_wifey]

Sorry to jump into this discussion of the Sixth Commandment, but earlier you asked about devotions, meditations, etc. Well, I have struggled in my use of NFP. I find it very hard to do, especially if I just had to rely on my own (lacking) self-discipline. Thankfully, that is where God comes in! (Phil 4:13, “I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.”) Also, remember the role your husband plays in this. NFP will not work if only one person uses it. It is about a couple’s fertility and there are many methods. Ask your husband for help; lean on him. Also, read through Paul’s letters together and pray (just you and your DH) each day for guidance, wisdom, and for your faith to grow. I would start with 1 Corinthians. God can (& does!!!) provide for all things. It is when you start relying on your own ability to save money, plan ahead, “control” things that you run the risk of breaking the First Commandment (“You shall have no other gods before Me.”)

Good luck & God bless!

 

[Peacefulwishes]

This thread has so thoroughly confused me that my head spun until bed last night!

I sought guidance from the Priest I mentioned earlier, and I stand corrected! I really misunderstood a lot of what I learned about mortal sin in RCIA. Especially the church’s view and interpretation of the sixth commandment. 1ke, I am sorry I called you a he, I thought Pax was your name since that is what is in your siggy. I didn’t know it was a salutation. In any case, thank you for so thoughtfully explaining and correcting my misconceptions! I am sorry for possibly ruffling feathers I think I took what I wanted from the class and believed what I wanted to believe. This (and this site in general) has been an eye opener!

Wifey, that is precisely the kind of thing I needed - a place to begin in the scriptures to reflect and meditate. Awesome. :aok:

I haven’t yet talked with dh about this further, but I’m pretty sure we will continue with NFP. Father directed me to the Couple to Couple League, but there are no teaching couples nearby, and I’m not sure the home study will do anything more for me (as I’ve already read and understand Taking Charge of your Fertility) and already have all of the basic tools. I just need some personal guidance.

One other thing I didn’t clarify before. The reasons we so desperately want to provide catholic schooling to our children is because the public system here is a joke. It is entirely incompetent and sending our kids there might as well be condemning them. Drugs, sex and gangs are rampant from late elementary (not kidding) through high school. Not to mention academic scoring is one of the lowest in the country. It’s so sad.

 

[1ke]

This thread has so thoroughly confused me that my head spun until bed last night!(

I am so sorry that that happened to you! I missed the post where your RCIA instructor told you that the doctrines of the Church were man-made and didn’t have to be followed.

Honestly you should report that to your priest immediately because that person needs to be corrected, pronto. It does a great disservice to inquirers to tell them wrong information on the Catholic Church’s teaching and beliefs. It is unfair to someone to let them enter the Church not knowing what is required of them and what the Church actually teaches on these serious moral issues.

I sought guidance from the Priest I mentioned earlier, and I stand corrected! I really misunderstood a lot of what I learned about mortal sin in RCIA. Especially the church’s view and interpretation of the sixth commandment.

I’m really glad you did this. Keep studying. The Church is full of Truth and beauty. There are many who dissent from Her teachings and believe they can be happy in pursuit of their own ends. But, God wants us to experience true happiness with Him in Heaven. He wants us to strive for holiness here on Earth. You are doing that-- striving to find God’s will and learn His Truth. You will continue to learn every day. I’ve been Catholic for 17 years now, and I learn new things all the time. Study the bible, read the Catechism, ask your priest for good book recommendations.

1ke, I am sorry I called you a he, I thought Pax was your name since that is what is in your siggy. I didn’t know it was a salutation. In any case, thank you for so thoughtfully explaining and correcting my misconceptions! I am sorry for possibly ruffling feathers(

Please don’t think I was upset or insulted, I wasn’t at all. You did not ruffle my feathers. And, people think I’m a man quite often on this board… not sure why.

Just letting you know. “Pax” means Peace in Latin.

I think I took what I wanted from the class and believed what I wanted to believe. This (and this site in general) has been an eye opener!

Keep learning!

I haven’t yet talked with dh about this further, but I’m pretty sure we will continue with NFP. Father directed me to the Couple to Couple League, but there are no teaching couples nearby, and I’m not sure the home study will do anything more for me (as I’ve already read and understand Taking Charge of your Fertility) and already have all of the basic tools. I just need some personal guidance.

Also look at Creighton and Billings to see if they have instructors. Northwest Family Services and Marquette Model NFP are other options to Google. Also look on the website for your Diocese under “Family Life”. Often the diocese will have teaching couples or instructors in one or more methods who may or may not appear on the other websites.

One other thing I didn’t clarify before. The reasons we so desperately want to provide catholic schooling to our children is because the public system here is a joke. It is entirely incompetent and sending our kids there might as well be condemning them. Drugs, sex and gangs are rampant from late elementary (not kidding) through high school. Not to mention academic scoring is one of the lowest in the country. It’s so sad. : (

Just be *open *to God, listen to what he is trying to tell you regarding the spacing and number of children. That’s all he asks. Perhaps you are at your limit now, and perhaps your circumstances will change in the future. We should not permanently shut that door to God through actions such as sterilization. If you discern that your family size is at its limit, then you can use NFP as part of your marital life.

 

[Mark77]

I had a vasectomy after our second child was born with severe special needs. After that experience and living with it every day, I do not regret it. You have to do what is right for YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND and not what others on these forums say to do. You are not going to care what advice anyone gave you on this site 3 years from now if you have more kids, never wanted them, and find that you are at your wits end either emotionally or financially. I am a new member here but have rapidly come to find out that there are many people here that will quickly condemn by proclaiming its “a mortal sin” and that you will damn your soul for this or that. Do what is right for you and you husband, not what I or any other holier than thou says. Let the criticism and moral outrage begin!!!

I am married and had a vasectomy, for our convenience, when I was away from the Church 20 years ago, after being given the precious gift of 3 beautiful children.

I too was totally self-centered, self-absorbed and felt that whatever was easier for me was the right thing to do.

I too felt like I was my own God and nobody could tell me what to do. I wish I had listened to those “holier than thou’s”!!

Boy was I ever wrong!

Now I truly regret my vasectomy every day as I realize that by “cutting off” (literally) God from my life, I refused to accept any more children simply because it was inconvenient for me.

My 3 beautiful children are now young adults, but I realize that they are the most incredible gift anyone could ever be given.

Nothing I have done or will do in my life will ever compare to being allowed by God to share in the miracle of creating life. NOTHING EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THE JOY MY CHILDREN BRING ME EVERY DAY!!!

When I realized that I had possibly prevented having other beautiful children, I was overcome with remorse.

I have a recurring nightmare where a group of beautiful children are crying and asking me why I hated them so much that I never let them come live and share their love with me.

When we allow God to give us the precious gift of a child, we take part in a miracle that creates a unique soul that will live for all eternity.

When we are lying on our deathbed, the money, the cars, the houses, the sex, the “things” we have had will all be meaningless.

There never is a perfect time, enough money, a big enough house. What If Mary said no to the Lord and refused to have the baby Jesus? What if your parents said no to you?

When die and we have to answer for our lives and our actions, nothing will matter except the love we gave and the love we accepted.

**I BEG YOU TO THINK BEYOND TODAY, THINK BEYOND YOUR FEARS AND YOUR SELFISH NEEDS. THINK ONLY OF ALL ETERNITY AND HAVING TO ANSWER FOR WHY YOU REFUSED THE PRECIOUS GIFT OF LIFE THAT GOD WANTS TO GIVE YOU!!!
**
DON’T DO WHAT I DID AND SPIT IN GOD’S FACE!

No one on these forums has ever “condemned” anyone, only our own actions can condemn us.

Please pray for me and all the others who believed the lies sold to us by the devil!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[HouseArrest]

This thread has so thoroughly confused me that my head spun until bed last night!

I sought guidance from the Priest I mentioned earlier, and I stand corrected! I really misunderstood a lot of what I learned about mortal sin in RCIA. Especially the church’s view and interpretation of the sixth commandment. 1ke, I am sorry I called you a he, I thought Pax was your name since that is what is in your siggy. I didn’t know it was a salutation. In any case, thank you for so thoughtfully explaining and correcting my misconceptions! I am sorry for possibly ruffling feathers I think I took what I wanted from the class and believed what I wanted to believe. This (and this site in general) has been an eye opener!

Wifey, that is precisely the kind of thing I needed - a place to begin in the scriptures to reflect and meditate. Awesome. :aok:

I haven’t yet talked with dh about this further, but I’m pretty sure we will continue with NFP. Father directed me to the Couple to Couple League, but there are no teaching couples nearby, and I’m not sure the home study will do anything more for me (as I’ve already read and understand Taking Charge of your Fertility) and already have all of the basic tools. I just need some personal guidance.

One other thing I didn’t clarify before. The reasons we so desperately want to provide catholic schooling to our children is because the public system here is a joke. It is entirely incompetent and sending our kids there might as well be condemning them. Drugs, sex and gangs are rampant from late elementary (not kidding) through high school. Not to mention academic scoring is one of the lowest in the country. It’s so sad.

I don’t know where you’re living, or what your Catholic school costs are like, but just so you know it is possible, we have 7 kids and 6 of them are now in Catholic school (the other one is only 2 years old). Our school’s tuition is low compared to the rest of the country, but when you start multilplying, nothing is cheap. Our school has programs in place to allow us to reduce our tuition costs, and most of these programs are in place in most Catholic schools in the country (Scrips programs, working off tuition, EITC scholarship programs) that your school can tell you about if you ask.

Where there’s a will there’s a way. Don’t be afraid to accept God’s children lovingly. HE will help you raise them. Also don’t be afraid of other options, like homeschooling.

 

[Peacefulwishes]

Thank you Mark and Housearrest for your encouragement.

Mark, I am so sorry for what you are suffering through. Have you considered reversal?

As an update to all of you who kindly have given my situation thought, my husband and I talked about this in length last night and I am so happy (and relieved!) to report that he is fully on board with NFP over a vasectomy. I explained everything as best as I could from all that I have recently learned and he agree’d, and somehow, the conversation made me feel so much closer to my husband! It was like a weight lifted.

Of course, we couldn’t act on that closeness as I am entering my fertile phase, lol!!

 

[1ke]

Of course, we couldn’t act on that closeness as I am entering my fertile phase, lol!!

God has sense of humor!

I am glad you and your DH have come to agreement and will strive to live Christ’s teaching in your marriage. I do encourage you to get a copy of Kimberly Hahn’s book Life Giving Love. Perhaps you can get it through library loan.

 

[sheilathebard]

For more personal support for NFP, where it’s not in your diocese, there is always email! My own online NFP teachers are John and Sheila Kippley, who founded the Couple to Couple League. They always answer my questions right away!

nfpandmore.org/contact.shtml

There are also a lot of experienced NFP users on this forum … I’m always seeing people’s NFP questions in here. So you could always post your specific issues … chances are someone on here has had the same one.

I am so proud of you for making the right decision and having both of you on the same page with it! May God bless you for your efforts to do as He wills!

 

[Col40]

I still can’t help but feel guilt over it.

I would continue with NFP, but am so afraid we’ll mess up and have a surprise pregnancy. I am not so good with my will power, my husband is pretty irresistible Seriously though, I know myself, and I know I am just not disciplined enough.

Any thoughts with this??? Any special prayers or meditations you can suggest?))

Thanks in advance!

ps - I am new to Catholicism, just recently baptized last Easter so please forgive any ignorances on my part.

I understand your feelings totally! My hubby and I have used NFP faithfully since 1992. We have two children, both planned and conceived via NFP. We’re in our mid to late 40s—I don’t want to rush menopause but with the way signs are becoming and cycles are unpredictable…I’m really sick and tired of the lack of “dry” days. And more key–I’m totally afraid of an unplanned pregnancy at this point because both times I was pregnant, I had some complications and those I am told will get worse with age. So we do have reason not to have more kids. I feel like I’m frustrating myself and my husband right now.

At this point, we’re sticking through with NFP, trying so hard to follow the church’s teachings. But it’s definetely something is getting harder and harder.

Not really advise–just wanted you to know that there are those of us who are equally conflicted and frustrated. :hug1: