I actually know him from another forum, and I read about the great purge of the Orthodox on this forum over there. Did not this particular sub-forum used to be for all Eastern Christians, and not just ones that submit to the Vatican?
I’m afraid that this reveals that you are limited to appeals to Ultramontanism. Tell me then, when our churches were united, why were the Ecumenical Councils necessary if this is about appealing to one visible head who has authority over all of Christendom? Our ecclesiology is truly conciliar; no one man runs everything. The bishops work together when necessary. Why must there be one representative to speak for all of the local churches? Each diocese has one head; anything with two heads is a monster.
From your description, I can only say that modern EO have a very different ecclesiological understanding than the patristic Church.
I was thinking the same thing about your church. Ultramontanism is simply not the patristic, apostolic faith. Looks like we’re at an impasse; nice chatting with you!
The impasse only occurs with EO who hold the Low Petrine view and can’t admit that this viewpoint, like the Absolutist Petrine view, is a development. The two extremes naturally cannot coexist.
My dear friend the reason for our differences is because since the seperation 1000 years ago hardly any flow of shared doctrine was never seen by the other. If there is differences it is because we do not see the other at all. Do you not see my point! It is not because we are different, it is because we do not see each other at all so that we can never share each others doctrines so we could be helped by the Church of Rome and Rome can also be edified by us. You say we are different. And why not! How the heck can the Orthodox be edified if they do not communicate with the Church of Rome especially in the last 1000 years. What I am saying is the reverse. We are not different. The Church of Rome is able to teach me for I being Orthodox do not have all the answers. Together yes we do but not the way it is today. Now you got to be kidding when Orthodox are different. We have established a doctrine similiar to the Catholics. Now tell me where are those differences you are referring to! What you call differences God will call the same and let me explain. Not one Church has it all. Together we form the complete oneness, Catholic and Orthodox. My own brother is different than me and he surely does not think the same as me. He is still my brother no matter what and I accept what differences there is between us. I don’t say to him forget it brother I no longer want to deal with you unless you agree to my terms. I will never say that to my brother Ok. We Orthodox think too much about ourselves instead of thinking of Our Catholic Brothers and Sisters. If I think only of myself when I am with my blood brother then I am a pretty poor person to deal with however if I am thinking of my blood brother alot when I am with him or even when I am not with him then I am a very important person in his life. I become rich for him. That is what God wants. For us to be rich towards all people and that will be for me even more important to my relationships with my Catholic Brothers and Sisters because they share as with me a direct relationship with the same Lord Jesus Christ! For Pete’s sake the Catholics have the same Eucharist as us. That is enough for me to be with them. You want to stay apart then you make that choice. But it doesn’t have to be that. That was my concern from the first post. We have to put away pride and to be humble enough to see in Our Catholic brothers and sisters people who are in Christ Jesus more a part to us than even our own blood brothers and sisters. Jesus Christ will want this and even desires this and I believe we are in conflict with the Lord when we continue this pride. You say give me a break why don’t you give God a break. He is the One suffering because of all the pride He sees in us. I for one wish not to make Him suffer and I will support His Cause to unite His Church to where He had established it in the beginning. I am going to make a statement that will make the Orthodox blink but I believe it is our pride that continues this seperation and not our differences! You call it differences, I call it pride. This may hurt but somebody got to say it. I pray that someday this stubborn pride of the Orthodox will melt and eventually see that the Church of Rome is a part of Her as She is of part of them. God Bless!If you listened to your bishops and the fathers, you would know that the Branch Theory is Anglican in origin and is a great heresy. It destroys the Orthodox ecclesiology. I believe in ONE Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, not two or three or four of them, nor one which is divided into different sects.
I am just like you in that the separation is painful and I wish for us all to be one. But for that, they have to return to the Orthodox faith.
As far as “all it taking” is a big hug, give me a huge break.Do you have any idea how complicated and ingrained the differences between our churches are? Our understanding of the nature of the bishopric is different. Our ecclesiastical structures are irreconcilable. Our theological paradigms are vastly different. Accepting an apology doesn’t give us the same understanding of the nature of the Church.
I pray for unity as well, but only real unity, not one where everyone pretends that we are the same.
Ask you priest about this, and if he knows his faith well then the answer might surprise you. It’s not about pride, it’s about Truth. You seem like a Vatican mole who is dishonesty representing someone who’s Greek Orthodox to feign some ecumenical spirit into the Orthodox Church.
I am not a Vatican mole. I am Greek Orthodox! You have a problem addressing me sir then use proper language. I grew up more in a Catholic setting in my first 30 years so I know the Church of Rome from within. I do not care about debates. They are useless! I care about the Truth and for me to defend the Church of Rome towards the Orthodox is better than dishonesty. I will be dishonest to myself and to God if I remain silent. I grew up alongside Catholics and worship with them. Now I do not try to feign some ecumenical spirit into any Church. What I do is to bring Truth and Clarity. That is all. I do not want to debate with you. I do not like names calling. I am a Greek Orthodox Christian and if you cannot address me as that then it is useless to continue any discussion with you. I have a mission to bring this Truth and if I have obstacles to confront then so be it. I rather these than a easy way to bring this Truth. I find God's Truth is constantly trampled with and obstacles can be sign from God that one is on the right track. I realize that unity will not come to this generation. The next yes but not to this one. He cannot stand the pride of this generation. I believe God will have to wait until this generation dies so that next may accomplish finally His Will and bring about this Unity He so long desired. God Bless!I am sorry I made an accusation without any basis for it. Please forgive me. You views are just so opposed to Orthodox teaching that it is baffling.
If you have been worshiping with them, then you have been ignoring your bishops and the apostolic canons, which forbid praying with heretics. To do this is to de facto excommunicate yourself, so you might consider confessing this. (By the way to moderators, this is not intended as a pejorative, this is what the canon states and is the official position of the Orthodox Church, so this is not uncharitable name-calling, it is technical speech.)
Was Joseph Smith, Jr. on the right track when his religious beliefs got him killed?
It won’t come in the next one either, if the True Faith is to prevail. I’m in my twenties, and nobody in my generation wants a false union. Maybe you can try out the generation after that, which will fulfill your desires and embrace theological relativism. I see you’re Lebanese, so perhaps being around the Melkites and Marionites has blurred your vision? Just because their liturgical patrimony is similar or identical does not mean that their faith is, and they do not represent what most of the Vatican’s churches are like.
Even if every Eastern Papist was opposed to Ultramontanism, which they are not, that would still only account for about 2% of the entire Vatican’s communion. At this point it is so ingrained that it cannot be removed from their skulls. It seems that many on this forum gush on and on about St. Peter’s office like it’s the only thing their faith is based upon.
It sounds more like conspiracy theory and paranoia than anything else. “Oh, so and so got banned, it’s because all the Catholics are afraid of being converted”
So that makes me very ecumenical. 
I used to get my haircut by a girl who’s dad is a Disciples of Christ-Pastor, does that count as ecumenical?And, just so you know, I have authority to talk about all this because my Grandma was a Hungarian Orthodox, My Grandpa a French Roman Catholic, and my other Grandma, on my Dad’s side, was an Anglican. Plus I just went skiing with a Lutheran a couple of weeks ago.
When I said I knew Catholic ways and devotions, I did not mean in a Catholic Church. When the Orthodox came to P.E.I., Canada they all decided with the blessings of an Orthodox priest from America to attend the High Church of England, a High Anglican Church which outwardly was more Catholic than any Church I have ever seen ( I mean locally ), We had Mass daily, the Stations, Adoration, Benediction, Confession and Holy Unction, the Rosary, and we called our priests Father. The only difference between us and the Catholics were that our Priests were married. Our priest will uphold at every Mass His Holiness the Pope, the Ecumenical Patriarch and the ArchBishop of Canterbury. So I got to know the Holy Father many times at prayer in my own Church. I can still remember growing up celebrating the Mass just like the Catholics and growing up at St.Peter’s Cathedral, the Altar and the Priest facing East and still does today. We were the envy of the Catholics in P.E.I. because our celebrations reminded them of the good old days when the Church of Rome celebrated with more Ceremonial and Pomp. I can still remember the incense used and how many of the Low Anglicans complained about it. I grew up with those good old days every day of my life at St.Peter’s and what a wonderful gift that God gave to me and the rest of the Orthodox there. We experience and saw how Christians worship in the West especially via the Catholic Tradition. It was a wonderful gift to see and experienced and this is why I appreciate the way Catholics pray and worship. It was about 12 years ago that the Orthodox then moved out and started their own mission Church. We are now the only established Eastern Orthodox Church on the Island, Antiochian Rite. We had permission to go there and during the years many of the Orthodox became Anglican while some of us were baptized Orthodox myself included being the first person ever to be baptized by an Orthodox priest on the Island. The priest was from Halifax and was Greek Orthodox. That is why I have a Greek Orthodox baptism. My mission is not really a mission but a necessity to help bring more light to this disunity we are engaged in. I find that we spend too much time fighting among ourselves while we should be united together to fight our common enemy. We are not witnessing to God when we are not united and squabbling over meaningless arguments. There is work to be done to help God to convert the World and we can’t do that when we are arguing. It makes sense we can occupy our time better praying and been united. I am not trying to convert the Orthodox or trying to bring people together though the last one bringing people together is not a bad ideal! Um all I am trying to show to people that an Orthodox can appreciate Rome better by living like Her. That is what I have done. That is what I am saying. I did not choose this. God placed us there and that is why I have grown to love the Catholic Way. So blame it on God if you want to blame someone. Anyway I am thankful He did this for us and for me. Not many Orthodox have grown up this way. But I wish many did because Catholic devotions and the Catholic Way is something beautiful to behold. God Bless! ( by the way who is Joseph Smith? )
That is a brutally honest assessment by Cardinal Kasper. I had not seen that before. Holy smokes.
I very much agree with this. Although the developments found in Vatican I can be criticized (particularly the interpretation of it from ultra-conservative elements within the RCC), the ecclesiology I see from EO here deviates to a far greater degree from the texts of the Church Fathers.From your description, I can only say that modern EO have a very different ecclesiological understanding than the patristic Church.
Orthodoxy claims to be Protestantism without the subtractions and Catholicism without the additions.