Help! Confirmation Class full of unvbelievers!

[puzzleannie]

My question is: Should these individuals even be comfirmed? Are they going through this just because it is the next thing on the to do list? Is it not a sin to receive a sacrament with the wrong intentions?

that is a decision made by the pastor alone, and he will usually meet with the candidate, sponsor, parents and catechists, sometimes more than once. The catechist can give an opinion but it is based on knowing that child in the context of a weekly class, and perhaps a retreat over a period of a few months. The catechist does not know the child well enough to make that decision on their own.

The answer to OP’s question is you cannot make them believe, nor is that your job. Your job is to sow the seed, present the truth, proclaim the gospel and do so in the context of the process you bishop has prescribed. Whether or not your candidates respond to the promptings of the Holy Spirit is outside your control. What you can control is what you teach, how you teach, how you live your own faith, how you pray, and how your own belief is made evident through your manner of living, most especially how you related to your learners

 

[Joe_5859]

Confirmation is not a “choice” to be Catholic or to “choose Christ.” They are already Catholic by virtue of their baptism. And, it is not they who are confirming, it is the Bishop.

Confirmation is often (wrongly) presented to teens as them confirming their faith, that it is they who are confirming and making a decision to be Catholic. This is totally false.

It is the bishop who confirms, and what is confirmed is their baptism. They receive additional graces and charisms appropriate to those who are disciples.

Every Catholic is OBLIGATED to be confirmed upon the call of the Bishop.

If a person needs the sacrament delayed-- due for example to professing disbelief in God-- then it is the priest’s role to counsel that person to help them prepare to receive the call of the bishop.

I need to print this post out, laminate it, and send it to all our Confirmation prep teachers.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in our present catechetical landscape. Teaching children that Confirmation is their time to make the choice is what leads to the impression that Confirmation is the Sacrament of Catholic Graduation after which their dues have been fully paid and they are now card-carrying Catholics with no more to learn and nothing else to do. That’s why they disappear until it’s time for them to baptize their own children.

 

[John_of_Patmos]

I need to print this post out, laminate it, and send it to all our Confirmation prep teachers.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in our present catechetical landscape. Teaching children that Confirmation is their time to make the choice is what leads to the impression that Confirmation is the Sacrament of Catholic Graduation after which their dues have been fully paid and they are now card-carrying Catholics with no more to learn and nothing else to do. That’s why they disappear until it’s time for them to baptize their own children.

Exact problem that happened at my parish…
The teachers said :This is NOT graduation. Did anyone listen?

 

[karaleigh]

Exact problem that happened at my parish…
The teachers said :This is NOT graduation. Did anyone listen?

One of my favorite places to listen to when I see a need for teens of become a part of Jesus is Superbook Radio. It is the Christian Broadcasting Network’s(CBN) outreach for teens and young adults. It has a wide variety of artists; plus, it child safe!

The site also has fun games with the themes only on the bible and Jesus. I hope it works for you. It sure does for me. Blessed

 

[Luvtosew]

Wouldn’t it even be a sin to engage in Communion if one does not believe in God??

I think they need to be recycled back into pre communion Cathechism. Do they know what the Trinity is?

Lowering the age is not good, that would be like traping them of some sort.

Maybe their Parents don’t believe in God either. I do find this very disturbing to say the least.

 

[1ke]

Lowering the age is not good, that would be like traping them of some sort.

What does that mean?

 

[Luvtosew]

Ike,
Your right didn’t write that right, not traping them , just having them do something they are not prepared to do.

but I guess it won’t matter, I mean they don’t believe in God , so its meaningless and of no real significance to them anyway.

 

[Philthy]

I have a confirmation class and many of them doubt the existence of God and don’t see the necessity of believing in God. What can I say to a group of 14 and 15 year olds that may help them understand why believing in God is necessary? They also doubt the existence of an afterlife.

Thanks and God Bless

Hi Mike!

Nice to see you again - has it really been 2 years? Wow…
I always loved the concise, coherent summaries you provide - I still have some! I didn’t know you were discern your vocation…I’ll keep you in my prayers…

Two thoughts:

1. The Church in the USA needs to stop this approach to the Sacraments and start saying quite simply that " We’re sorry, your child is not prepared to participate". This is especially the case where the parents don’t even attend Mass regularly. You know, the basics: “you reap what you sow”
2. You are in an impossible situation - you aren’t supposed to be “converting” them to the faith, you are supposed to be nourishing their pre-existing faith so that they are prepared to receive Confirmation.

Blessings!

 

[govav8er]

I was confirmed at 4 years old when I lived in Mexico. I did had my first communion here in the states and went to public school and private college. My structured catechesis ended after my first communion and therefore had a poor level of knowledge of my faith. It became more of a cultural identity to me than a faith to be lived. I grew up to be a typical “cafeteria” catholic at best and more likely an adherent to modern relativism. Thank God I am back and on fire with the faith.

Due to my personal experience, I would frown upon the lowering of the age requirement of confirmation and would agree with those that say that confirmants lacking faith should be held back. I defintely point to my poor chatechesis to my terrible living as a young to mature adult. Had I known my faith better and loved my faith like I do now, who knows…I certainly would not have had to confessed to as many sins as I did when I came back in full communion with the Church.

 

[Geist]

A good priest I know told me that some parents must bribe their kids with food to go to Mass.

I was baptised Presbyterian due to parental bribes of super nintendo games. Hard for an 11 year old to resist back then.

Ah, youth.

 

[brb3]

So, Mike…what will happen with your teenybopper non-believers?
Will they be ushered through by the priest, without a blink?

Really, I do so want to know what will happen here. It is very important for my mind-formation of how this religion works.

So, the Church is on trial here …

will it stand firm to its tenents/standards … or give in to mediocrity and give the Non-Catholics fodder to fortify their doubts that the Church has Christ at its bedrock ?

 

[brb3]

So, Mike…what will happen with your teenybopper non-believers?
Will they be ushered through by the priest, without a blink?
Or will the priest insist they understand and fully believe before receiving this important sacrament?

To quote that punk in Dirty Harry, …“I gots-ta know!”

Really, I do so want to know what will happen here. It is very important for my mind-formation of how this religion works.

DADDYGIRL ----

I read your inquiry to Mike above. Your ‘mind-formation’ on the dogma of Catholicism is in the balance. Confirmation, a crucial Church Sacrament [the second stage of a Catholic’s first Water Baptism], is in the cross-hairs.

You are demanding the truth be told … via the Conduct of the Church. Will these teen-aged juveniles ‘non-believers’ [as you call them], be solidified into their Faith, and receive the annointing of the Holy Spirit … or will they be ‘blessed’ for their error and grow up as partially-formed, spirit-poor, cafeteria’ Catholics, who pick-choose whatever they like from the 7 Sacraments?

 

[brb3]

Is that the reason Mike isn’t answering the question? I hope he is not fearful to answer because of what you are saying here…

Don’t worry about Mike … he has the heart of a lion. He won’t compromise his faith … or let Confirmation fall into error so easily. He will answer you and us all … in due time.

Get ready DaddyGirl … Mike’s shots [understandings on scripture] are as amazing as Mike Jordan’s !!!

 

[Gorgias]

Hm… i think we’re being a little over-dramatic here, aren’t we? “Budding atheists”? They’re teens! They’re supposed to be questioning everything!

At this point in their development, they’ve been spoon-fed everything that they know. Now, they’re beginning to think their way through things, and beginning to take ownership of the things that they will ultimately claim as their belief system.

Confirmation, then, in the contemporary Latin Rite Church, takes place in the midst of this developmental waypoint. Should we expect that we, as teachers, will encounter some aspects of this “questioning”? Of course. Should we expect that some of our students will have strayed off the mark and begun to latch onto poorly thought-out theologies? Given our current society and the forces it imposes on kids, of course we should!

The important thing, though, is that they’re sitting in your classroom, and they’re giving you the opportunity to discuss the truth of Jesus’ message!

Our role in preparing them for the sacrament, then, is bound up in the task of helping them work towards a mature belief in Jesus and the Church!

Is that a challenging task? Of course!

Is it as easy as a simple presentation on the gifts and fruits of the Spirit? No way!

Is it our responsibility as catechists to help lead them towards a mature understanding of the faith?

(Or is our responsibility as catechists just to hand out a sheet with the objective teachings of the Church, and rat out to the pastor anybody who doesn’t sit there and say “yes sir, yes sir, three bags full!”…?)

 

[Philthy]

So, the Church is on trial here …

will it stand firm to its tenents/standards … or give in to mediocrity and give the Non-Catholics fodder to fortify their doubts that the Church has Christ at its bedrock ?

I’m not sure what you are saying - what “tenets-standards” are you referring to?? Those articulated by the Church or those of your own making? As context for this discussion, the Sacrament of Confirmation in other parts of the Catholic Church is administered at the same time as first Holy Communion - at a relatively young age.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

I’m not sure what you are saying - what “tenets-standards” are you referring to?? Those articulated by the Church or those of your own making? As context for this discussion, the Sacrament of Confirmation in other parts of the Catholic Church is administered at the same time as first Holy Communion - at a relatively young age.

As to the age for Confirmation, here’s my story. I was baptised at the age of a few weeks,
then my parents took me to Mexico City to visit my maternal grandparents. I was confirmed there when I was a few months old!

I have never even had an inkling of leaving the faith, am always reading and studying and try very hard to live it. Is it because of the graces I received at such an early age? I think so and thank God for them.

 

[puzzleannie]

I need to print this post out, laminate it, and send it to all our Confirmation prep teachers.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in our present catechetical landscape. Teaching children that Confirmation is their time to make the choice is what leads to the impression that Confirmation is the Sacrament of Catholic Graduation after which their dues have been fully paid and they are now card-carrying Catholics with no more to learn and nothing else to do. That’s why they disappear until it’s time for them to baptize their own children.

what 1ke said
it is the bishop who calls the candidates to confirmation, and those candidates are all those he calls, specifically those baptized Catholics who have attained the age he has set, and are properly disposed for the sacrament, and ask for it. He determines, usually with the aid of the pastors, who is properly disposed. In canon law we (parents, catechists, sponsors) cannot force a candidate to be confirmed, nor we can deny the sacrament to one whom the bishop has called who asks for it. Leave it up to the Holy Spirit, he can handle it.

This is not a decision that rests on the whim of a teenager, it is a yes or no to the Church in the person of the bishop, and the statement “I am not ready for Confirmation” equates to “I am rejecting the call of the bishop and the authority by which he issues that call.” All of which boils down to what OP is complaining about–that he feels his learners do not believe. However, he may not be in a position to judge of that is true or if they are just pushing buttons.

 

[puzzleannie]

Ah. So the pastor will talk to the bishop about each one? Letting him know that they are properly disposed?
And also, airing any any concerns about any, if he has them? And then the bishop takes that into consideration and makes the final decision?

yes it is part of the rite for Confirmation
the pastor stands up and affirms this

practically, the pastor either conducts interviews himself with the candidates, or delegates that to the coordinator and catechists. He most definitely has personal interviews with those candidates who have issues either in moral conduct of their lives (a boy gets a girl pregnant or is arrested for instance), or in their belief, by expressing they don’t accept the teachings and don’t feel ready.

I repeat ad nauseum however only the pastor can decide which souls under his care are candidates for sacraments at this time, the DRE, coordinator, catechist, sponsor and parents can give their (name removed by moderator)ut but may not make that decision.

I am compelled to point out that OP is giving a general rant against an unspecified number of students of unspecified age following unspecified words or actions on their part.
Let us pray
please, please, please Holy Spirit move the Catholic Church in the USA (or at least this diocese) to adopt the restored order for the sacraments of initiation, following the RCIA model as all catechetical documents recommend, and please do it before these teens and their parents drive me nuts.

 

[puzzleannie]

LOL onAlso, do you know…if one of these kids doesn’t believe in God, but lies to the pastor and says she DOES just so she can get confirmed and please her parents or whatever…would that, then, be a sin?

it might or not be a sin, frankly I don’t know if some of these kids have the brains to commit a knowing sin on that issue.

when you are observing the kids going up for confirmation remove it from your mind entirely whether or not they are “ready” whatever that means. Just like watching people going for communion, you and I are neither pastor nor bishop so it is none of our business to judge his spiritual condition.

The priest spoke to the candidates at their retreat, told them frankly not to lie to God and to themselves, and to show up or not show up at church that day. Those who will not be confirmed have already made that decision with appropriate guidance for appropriate reasons, and that also is nobody’s business. The validity of the sacrament depends on the minister following proper matter and form, not on the disposition of the candidates. If one were to receive while not being in the state of grace, he still receives a valid sacrament, but the graces do not become available to him until he returns to the state of sanctifying grace.

 

[mpartyka]

I think the easiest thing to do would be to ask these kids, “Do you believe that you yourself exist? That this room and what is happening in it exists?” If some smart aleck says no, he or she is just being obstinate – you can’t really deny your own existence – so move on to a kid who says yes and ask, “Don’t you think there is a reason we exist, or at least that there’s a reason there is such a thing as ‘existence’ into which you and I have all been brought? I mean, if there is no reason for stuff to exist, why is there stuff at all? Why isn’t there just nothing? And if stuff exists for a reason, whose reason? See, even if you don’t believe in the God of the Bible, you have to believe that (1) stuff, including you, exists and (2) there must be a reason that stuff exists instead of there just being nothing. Whoever or whatever it is that decided stuff should exist, let’s call that God and work from there.” That way you’re not locking them down to the Bible’s view of God at first – you can work into that. At first you’re just starting them off with the idea that there is someone or something that wants stuff, like them, to exist. Then you can continue, “And how do you get in touch with that? Is the sort of thing that went to the trouble of creating all this stuff really the sort of thing that’s going to keep itself from you? Maybe it’s reaching out to you right now. Maybe that’s what this class is for: To show you how the reason for all of existence is reaching out to you and has been reaching out to you all your life.”