Help!!! I am fighting a war with hate...

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sadie2723

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I am currently fighting a battle with a venomous Fundamentalist who I cannot just blow off. Believe me that I would if I could. The problem is that he wants to debate faith with me, but will not listen to any kind of reason if it does not support his extremely warped views (He thinks that James should be removed from the Bible as Luther suggested for instance). I feel that I am in over my head here, and I would like to know if anyone has had to deal with someone like this. Keep in mind that I am stuck in this thing. There is no way for me to just walk away, so I either have to make him see the light of truth or just resign myself to a life family visits that end up being battles to the death with no peace in sight.

Help if you can.

B
 
Buy him a book like Suprised by Truth, or any of the great books out there on the subject and tell him you’ll be happy to discuss faith matters if he reads the book first. Then pray for him. If he has any questions make sure to find the answers for him. Don’t forget that this person is only doing this because he feels like it’s his obligation to Jesus to see to it that you are saved.
 
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sadie2723:
I am currently fighting a battle with a venomous Fundamentalist who I cannot just blow off. Believe me that I would if I could. The problem is that he wants to debate faith with me, but will not listen to any kind of reason if it does not support his extremely warped views (He thinks that James should be removed from the Bible as Luther suggested for instance). I feel that I am in over my head here, and I would like to know if anyone has had to deal with someone like this. Keep in mind that I am stuck in this thing. There is no way for me to just walk away, so I either have to make him see the light of truth or just resign myself to a life family visits that end up being battles to the death with no peace in sight.

Help if you can.
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What is your relationship to this person?
 
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sadie2723:
I am currently fighting a battle with a venomous Fundamentalist who I cannot just blow off. Believe me that I would if I could. The problem is that he wants to debate faith with me, but will not listen to any kind of reason if it does not support his extremely warped views (He thinks that James should be removed from the Bible as Luther suggested for instance). I feel that I am in over my head here, and I would like to know if anyone has had to deal with someone like this. Keep in mind that I am stuck in this thing. There is no way for me to just walk away, so I either have to make him see the light of truth or just resign myself to a life family visits that end up being battles to the death with no peace in sight.

Help if you can.

B
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Obviously, this person is related to you in some way. I have not had to debate with my family. But, I had to debate with others who are not in my family. Namely, door knockers. You can walk away from a discussion at any time when it gets heated. Take time out. There is a time and place for everything! Don’t get into it
with him/her if it looks like it will be an argument. they are fruitless, and wont accomplish anything for you, or them. You know how this person feels, and the simple thing to do is pray!
Also, get some advice from your priest. Explain the situation to
him, and apply the advice he gives you. Another thing you can do, is do your research. Whatever they want to debate with you, prepare yourself by looking it up in the Bible. You can also check out the library here at Catholic Answers. There is a wealth of information for you. Sometimes, the best thing to do is to let it cool, and walk away until your prepared. Ask this person if they’d be willing to accept some Catholic tracts! you can purchase them
on this site. Educate yourself in what this person believes, and
then you will be able to point out the facts to him/her. Always end the conversation when it gets heated. Wait until there is an opportune time to discuss it again. I hope this has been a help to you. God bless you!
 
For those of you that were wondering, the person I am fighting with is the father of my girlfriend. While it might appear to be an easy one to solve…just leave her for instance…the problem is complicated.

The problem is complicated due to several facts: 1. I love her. 2. She is a person who is avidly seeking Christ in her life and is starting to show signs of becoming a Catholic herself. I have not pushed this issue. She has come to the decision all on her own. 3. Her father’s biggest fear is that she will convert, followed closely by his fears of having his daughter get married in the Catholic Church and having his grandchildren raised Catholic.

This is a problem, and it is compounded by the fact that he is denying scripture when I present it because it does not line up with his beliefs. He just takes the scripture that I give him, which I interpret literally, and then molding it in a somewhat sick effort to make it conform to his own views. He is very lost, and it scares the heck out of me.
 
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sadie2723:
This is a problem, and it is compounded by the fact that he is denying scripture when I present it because it does not line up with his beliefs. He just takes the scripture that I give him, which I interpret literally, and then molding it in a somewhat sick effort to make it conform to his own views. He is very lost, and it scares the heck out of me.
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That’s a tough one. Continue to address his specific issues–one at a time. Always do this with repect toward him and never raise your voice or become argumentative (no matter what his demeanor to you). If you can’t answers some of his specific concerns, tell him you will get back to him. Love and charity is crucial. And above all, light a candle at your Church for him and pray, pray, pray!

Peace and blessings to you,
Mickey
 
This is a tough situation. But, since it is her father, you have to tread carefully, Arguing does not help. Especially when it is a family member. It will only make her feel uncomfortable. There is no point in arguing with her father. Let it rest. Just pray for him. At the same time, she will come to Christ. do not worry about her father. pray for him. Debates can end up heated. Take time out, and only discuss it when he is in an amiable mind to do so. concentrate on your relationship with your fiancee. That is more important as she is coming to know Christ. Her love for Jesus may help her father see the light. Set a good example by being peacable, and sooner or later, he may come around. The Bible states that" they can be won without a word" as well, “Things impossible with man, are possible with God” Have faith in Jesus, and in time, he might come around. Also, alleviate his fears by lovingly pointing out to him truths about our faith. Remember, give it time. Keep us posted! for now, concentrate on your love for Jesus,. your fiancee, and your life together. Trust that Jesus has a plan for us all.
 
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Marilena:
This is a tough situation. But, since it is her father, you have to tread carefully, Arguing does not help. Especially when it is a family member. It will only make her feel uncomfortable. There is no point in arguing with her father. Let it rest. Just pray for him. At the same time, she will come to Christ. do not worry about her father. pray for him. Debates can end up heated. Take time out, and only discuss it when he is in an amiable mind to do so. concentrate on your relationship with your fiancee. That is more important as she is coming to know Christ. Her love for Jesus may help her father see the light. Set a good example by being peacable, and sooner or later, he may come around. The Bible states that" they can be won without a word" as well, “Things impossible with man, are possible with God” Have faith in Jesus, and in time, he might come around. Also, alleviate his fears by lovingly pointing out to him truths about our faith. Remember, give it time. Keep us posted! for now, concentrate on your love for Jesus,. your fiancee, and your life together. Trust that Jesus has a plan for us all.
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Thanks for your kind words. One issue…it is hard to lovingly point out to him the truths about our faith, when he instantly shoots venom at me and tells me that those truths are not true and that I am going to Hell for believing in them…

That is the tought thing that I am dealing with here, and I am at my wits end.

Brad
 
I had such a situation in my life, only it was my husband. :crying: I found that the best strategy was silence. Let him preach all he wants, leave the house when you can’t take it anymore. (I will never regret the divorce, only the marriage.)
 
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sadie2723:
Thanks for your kind words. One issue…it is hard to lovingly point out to him the truths about our faith, when he instantly shoots venom at me and tells me that those truths are not true and that I am going to Hell for believing in them…

That is the tought thing that I am dealing with here, and I am at my wits end.

Brad
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Yes, i have had venom spouted at me a time or 2! Take time out Brad, don’t worry about him , and don’t believe what he says about
'going to hell" Jesus is the judge, not man. Like I said, you have more imprtant things to concentrate on right now. 🙂 Jesus said we will be persecuted, hold fast to your faith, and leave it in His hands! When your at your wits end, time to take a breath, and time to pray. Leave it alone for now, and like one poster said here, silence. He can’t get a rise out of you if you don’t let him 🙂
 
Hello Sadie,

I’ve been in your shoes; my MIL was quite vocal in her protests against me when I dated my wife. Although part of it was separation anxiety on her (my MIL’s) part, I’m sure that part of it was lingering anti-Catholicism. Doesn’t sound like as bad as what you’re facing, but it was there. When effective communication broke down, I would just excuse myself; then my wife and I would entertain fantasies of eloping. 🙂 But eventually she came around, and things are great now. Punch line is, pray for peace (try the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, it’s awesome) and an open heart in this fellow. You can continue to be a great grace in the life of your girlfriend, and she will need all the support she can if she decides to “swim the Tiber.”

CathChemNerd
 
Hello Sadie,

I’ve been in your shoes; my MIL was quite vocal in her protests against me when I dated my wife. Although part of it was separation anxiety on her (my MIL’s) part, I’m sure that part of it was lingering anti-Catholicism. Doesn’t sound like as bad as what you’re facing, but it was there. When effective communication broke down, I would just excuse myself; then my wife and I would entertain fantasies of eloping. 🙂 But eventually she came around, and things are great now. Punch line is, pray for peace (try the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, it’s awesome) and an open heart in this fellow. You can continue to be a great grace in the life of your girlfriend, and she will need all the support she can if she decides to “swim the Tiber.”

CathChemNerd
 
Sadie,

Sorry if this has been asked but is your girlfriend still living at home? Does her father pay bills or support her financially in anyway? I know when my girlfriend decided to convert her father wanted to talk/debate with me, she just told him that it had nothing to do with me, that it was her that made the decision. He whined and was very angry, he has even stopped talking to her and they havent seen eachother for over a year, but there was nothing he could do because he was not supporting her in anyway and she did not live at home. However if she still lives at home this would be a very sticky situation.

Personlly if it were me I would never had talked to my girlfriend’s father about this situation. I especially would have never debated with him about it. But this is because I would have never been in a situation where I would be forced to discuss religion because I trusted my girlfriend, she was going to take my side in anything that happened (meaning if he were to push dicussion about it she would have up and left WITH ME so I would never have been in a situation where I was forced to discuss it). I realize that the relationship with her father will always be a problem, who knows they may never talk again, but I have accepted this risk. Hope it works out for you.

God Bless
 
Prayer may be your most powerful weapon in this situation. Say a daily rosary and ask the blessed mother to help your girlfriend’s father come to understand the truth. This is probably your best bet for progress here.
 
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Roman_Catholic:
Sadie,

Sorry if this has been asked but is your girlfriend still living at home? Does her father pay bills or support her financially in anyway? I know when my girlfriend decided to convert her father wanted to talk/debate with me, she just told him that it had nothing to do with me, that it was her that made the decision. He whined and was very angry, he has even stopped talking to her and they havent seen eachother for over a year, but there was nothing he could do because he was not supporting her in anyway and she did not live at home. However if she still lives at home this would be a very sticky situation.

Personlly if it were me I would never had talked to my girlfriend’s father about this situation. I especially would have never debated with him about it. But this is because I would have never been in a situation where I would be forced to discuss religion because I trusted my girlfriend, she was going to take my side in anything that happened (meaning if he were to push dicussion about it she would have up and left WITH ME so I would never have been in a situation where I was forced to discuss it). I realize that the relationship with her father will always be a problem, who knows they may never talk again, but I have accepted this risk. Hope it works out for you.

God Bless
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She is out of the house and in no way supported by her family. And, she is on my side in this thing. She has told them over and over that there has been no pressure from me to convert, but they think that I have her under the Imperious Curse (Harry Potter reference, meaning that I have her under a spell in which she will do anything that I say.) This could not be further from the truth.

Thanks!

B
 
A very thorough and scholarly book defending the Catholic position on justification is Robert Sungenis’ book “Not by Faith Alone.” This book walks through just about every passage cited by the Sola Fide crowd and explains why the exegesis supporting that position is faulty. The book also presents the Catholic position from an entirely scripturally supported point of view. If your future FIL reads the book (I know that may be doubtful) at least he will see that the Catholic position is entirely Scriptural, even if it does not comport with the interpretation that he has been taught. If you present him with the book to read, at least you can show him that there is a scholarly and a biblical argument to make for the Catholic position. This may be a starting point for some kind of a peace treaty - that even if you don’t agree with each others’ interpretations there can be consensus that both positions are biblically based.

My other thought is that you don’t want this discussion to devolve into a shouting match. If he is sincere about his beliefs he may honestly believe that his daughter’s soul is in peril (and yours as well). Try to be compassionate even while you are trying your best to explain and defend your Catholic beliefs.

Good luck with the debate.
 
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sadie2723:
She is out of the house and in no way supported by her family. And, she is on my side in this thing. She has told them over and over that there has been no pressure from me to convert, but they think that I have her under the Imperious Curse (Harry Potter reference, meaning that I have her under a spell in which she will do anything that I say.) This could not be further from the truth.

Thanks!

B
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So then you should be able to explain to your girlfriend that you dont feel like discussing such topics with her father. Have her relay that to her father that you BOTH dont want to discuss it. Set up boundries. He needs to respect his daughter’s decision and you. Unless of course you feel you want to discuss this with him but first realize that you most likely will never convince this man, which is exactly why I would never debate a man like this it is a lose lose situation and may only hurt the relationship between you and your girlfriend.

My girlfriend just walked in and said wow it sounds just like what we went through. So dont worry your not alone 👍
 
Robert in SD:
A very thorough and scholarly book defending the Catholic position on justification is Robert Sungenis’ book “Not by Faith Alone.” This book walks through just about every passage cited by the Sola Fide crowd and explains why the exegesis supporting that position is faulty. The book also presents the Catholic position from an entirely scripturally supported point of view. If your future FIL reads the book (I know that may be doubtful) at least he will see that the Catholic position is entirely Scriptural, even if it does not comport with the interpretation that he has been taught. If you present him with the book to read, at least you can show him that there is a scholarly and a biblical argument to make for the Catholic position. This may be a starting point for some kind of a peace treaty - that even if you don’t agree with each others’ interpretations there can be consensus that both positions are biblically based.

My other thought is that you don’t want this discussion to devolve into a shouting match. If he is sincere about his beliefs he may honestly believe that his daughter’s soul is in peril (and yours as well). Try to be compassionate even while you are trying your best to explain and defend your Catholic beliefs.

Good luck with the debate.
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Thank you Robert! I will consider the book. I just hope he reads it.

B
 
You could call his bluff and say go ahead and tear James out. Also the 6 other books Luther wanted out of the New Testament. If he is attatched to Revelation it may be an eye opener.
st julie
 
st julie:
You could call his bluff and say go ahead and tear James out. Also the 6 other books Luther wanted out of the New Testament. If he is attatched to Revelation it may be an eye opener.
st julie
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What are the other books he wanted out?
 
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