Help! I need advice for disciplining my boys!

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I have 3 boys, aged 3, 2, & 7 months. My two older boys are out of control. They don’t respect me & listen to what I am telling them.
They know they are loved very much & I am not comfortable with spanking them. Some of my friends are trying to give me advice, such as spanking them ( mostly the oldest one ) one good time with a spoon. Can anyone out there give me some advice? I feel like I’ve read all the books…spanking is okay, spanking is harmful to them, etc, etc. I just feel that what I am doing is not working.
I currently use counting, and it worked for a while, but now my oldest is just really defiant! He stands on the couch & jumps off it. I tell him all day every day not to do it. He punches his brother & talks back to me, the list goes on and on…
Please help!!!
 
I have six children, including three boys.

These days I very seldom spank them, even the younger ones, compared to before. I see nothing wrong with spanking, but I think spanking is abusive unless two conditions are met: 1) the child knows exactly what (s)he is being punished for (never “you know what you did young man”) and 2) the child knows how to avoid getting into trouble the next time a similar situation presents itself.

The first thing a child has to become is under control. A toddler who will run away when you call, playfully or not, is at great risk and it bothers me a great deal to see parents dealing with this sort of thing lightly. There is nothing wrong with a child asking why, or for alternatives, but not as a condition of obeying. In other words, when you give them a specific instruction they need to do it. Once they have obeyed, then they may ask why and I may explain it or not. I am not obligated to defend why I am asking them to do something, a message I especially want to make very clear while they are young or I can expect a lifetime of manipulation by this child as it gets older and more clever about resisting your teaching.

If you are sure they heard you and understand what they are to do and willfully defy you, then I don’t see any problem with inflicting a little pain or other form of coercion, as long as you do it as a teaching method and not out of anger. This pretty well follows what I’ve read from Dr. James Dobson, that punishment is reserved to willful defiance.

It is my personal opinion that children should not be spanked for carelessness, forgetfulness, or other problems outside of willful defiance. Of course, kids are smart; they might use forgetfulness as a cover for defiance or indifference.

If you are frustrated or angry, get that under control before spanking children or it might have an abusive component, even if only in your mind.

Alan
 
I have 2 boys, 2 and 7 mo. I hear ya! I also know the frustration and I’m sorry things seem out of hand for you. It is so draining when they misbehave and seem to disrespect!

2-3 yo really don’t have much impulse control, and really do seem to forget from time to time (esp. boys) the “rules of the house”. Now, that doesn’t mean we can’t continue to let them know what the rules are, it is our job to train their will (discipline), but we have to make sure we aren’t asking too much of them, that can lead to frustration and tantrums, believe me! Be sure to praise to high heaven good behavior, “YOU WERE SO NICE TO YOUR BROTHER BY SHARING, YAY!!!” and learn what bad behavior to ignore or correct. But really, really praise the good stuff, lots of hugs and kisses, and be genuine. They will start to crave that attention. BE CONSISTANT - never let anything slide or get too frustrated to be a commanding presence or to follow through on punishment.

For my 2yo we started as soon as he could touch things (and are telling our 7mo now) “No Touch”, “No Jumping”, “Sit on your bottom”, these kinds of things. These are things he can do and we remind him often. 7 mo to the time you use time outs, try the distraction method (if you see him going for something that’s a no-no redirect his attention to a toy, book, etc), bc they really, really just can’t help it. It’s time consuming but so much gentler and easier. It will get better and soon you’ll see results. BTW - sometimes it’s better to have him touch things and telling him how to be “gentle” - have him stroke it gently and say “gentle” by showing him gentle by lightly touching his arm or leg, whatever. Take his hand and show him gentle touch.

I am using time-outs. 2 yo gets one warning, then gets sent to the corner for 2 min (min per year). After 2 min we tell him why he’s there and ask for apology (or a hug if they can’t say sorry). We started the time-outs at about 18mo. My ped. said that’s too early, but my experience (and the exp. of my SIL) is that it works.
It goes like this:
Bobby - no touch (or whatever the offending thing is) (He touches again) Remember - no touch, okay? If you touch again you will go to the corner (he touches). Okay Bobby, go to the corner for 2 minutes. (Set a timer). Okay, 2 min are up. Bobby, you were in the corner bc you touched item. No touch. Please say you’re sorry. (He hugs). Okay. Thank you.

Now, at first I had to hold him there forcefully. Not hard or out of control, just enough to keep his arms at his sides and in place. It will be chaotic and hard for you, but it will get better. My 2yo goes there willingly now and stays put.

I have spanked, but it is rare. The thing that seems to work for my 2 yr. old is LOTS of love and attention. For me - usually the more my 2 yo misbehaves, the more he seems to want more attention from me. I know it’s hard w/ 3 boys and the housework and all that, but really make sure there’s enough time set aside for then to get lots of loving attention from you and Daddy. A scheduled day helps us too - my 2yo seems to do better when he knows what the day will be like. Have routines like a specific one for bed. Our is between 7-8 he takes a bath, put on pj, say prayers, read story, snuggle a little then to bed. Every day, same thing, all the time.

Gosh - I hope this helps. I learned a lot from the book - The Baby Whisperer and the Baby Whisperer for Toddlers. The lessons from that book I saw on the Supernanny show. Oh, those books and Parenting with Grace and Guiltless Catholic Parenting.

Good luck. Oh another thing, pray pray pray to Mary for intercession. I have had many teary requests to her!

God Bless you and your family. I hope this helps, it works for me is all I can say.

:blessyou:
 
mom of 3 boys:
I currently use counting, and it worked for a while, but now my oldest is just really defiant! He stands on the couch & jumps off it. I tell him all day every day not to do it. He punches his brother & talks back to me, the list goes on and on…
Please help!!!
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That he is really defiant doesn’t mean that what you’re doing isn’t working. It means that he wants to see if he can wear you down.

Whatever you do, try to enforce your rules calmly and without fail. Don’t expect that they aren’t going to break the rules, because if you do, you will go nuts and probably fly off the handle.

If you’re not sure how to do this, go watch a really good pre-school. Trust me, with two people watching 8-10 little ones, those dear teachers cannot let the lions off their chairs!

It is hard work and it takes a tremendous amount of attention and self-control. Some days, you won’t get much done besides just that. Hang in there!
 
Greetings

First of all, I am a 68 year old grandmother. I raised two boys and have helped to raise the oldest of my grandsons. Three other grandchildren came to us by marriage.

I am from a different generatioin than you so I have very different ideas, some come from first hand experience. The one thing I like to think about is, how would this behavior strike you if the kid was 16 or 17? Believe it or not, it starts this early and if not curbed, continues.
The other thing I would ask is who is the adult and who is in control?

I have never been good enough to raise a boy without spanking when necessary. There is a major difference between disciplinary spanking and abuse. I think it is about time parents learn the difference. It is also time when parents learn to be consistant. I told my boys, “I will tell you one time only, the next time you get a swat”. A swat is not a spanking, a swat is a stinging swat to the butt. Yeah, stining. It is suppose to sting. Spankings are 2 or 3 stinging swats. Not love taps, stinging swats.

I cannot even imagine my kids jumping on my sofa!!! Sofas cost a ton of money that someone has worked danged hard to buy. One time and off to their room to think about it. Next time a stinging swat.

My grandma use to quote from the Scriptures. " The parent that spares the rod, hates their child". I tend to agree, but rather than hate, fears their child.

Grow up mom, you are the adult and you should be the one in control. 16 and 17 years old comes before you can ever believe it.

Allowing kids to grow up with no self control is not love.
 
Been there…done that…my boys are now 18 and 15 years old. I had the two most different chilren…The oldest all I had to do is say “I am sooo disappointed in you” and he was in tears all day but the younger…you could beat him black and blue and he would look at you and say “That didn’t hurt”. The younger of course was more difficult to control and dicipline. What we did was a series of consequences. If he did not do as he was told he had a “sit out” and had to sit on the floor facing me with what we called quiet hands and quiet mouth. He had to keep his hands on his knees and not talk. If he could not accomplish this for 1 minute we went to step 2 where he had to sit the same way but facing the corner. mind you these are 1 minute each. If he still couldn’t behave he got step 3: standing in a corner away from the tv but where I could see him with his nose touching the wall. Still no talking or fidgiting. If that didn’t work, step 4 was spanking. Now here is the kicker…if he escalated to step 2 he had to “de-escalate” his way back down. Here is how it works: Johnny, step 1, quiet hands quiet mouth right here. If Johnny doesn’t make it for 1 minute, Johnny step 2, face the wall, quiet hands quiet mouth. If that doesn’t work , Johnny step 3 , that corner, nose to the wall, quiet hands quiet mouth. And finally, if that doesn’t work, Johnny, step 4 come here, and swat his behind then say Johnny lets try step 3 now, when he does this , now step 2 then finally step 1. In other words he has to work his way in and out. After a few times of this they get the idea you are serious and they rarely go past step 1. However you do need to explain the whole system BEFORE you use it on him. The whole process takes less than 7 minutes but to him it will seem like longer when he escalates and he will behave to shorten the punishment time.

I do have to warn you that after about 6 months he had it mastered where he didn’t escalate but would wait till about 50 seconds had elapsed to act out to see if I would push it farther. You have to let him know you are serious even then so he doesn’t push you around. Good luck!!!
 
I picked up James Dobson’s book “Dare to Discipline” in a bible bookstore about 10 years ago (when my oldest was about 2). I thought it had good guidance in it, and it has helped form the dicipline that my children see today. He uses some good analogies and advocates spanking, but only when necessary and, of course, not causing physical injury (BTW, my wife and I began our parenting “career” as non-spankers). He also has a book leaning toward the “strong-willed child” which I also have but haven’t had to read/use (yet?!).

:twocents:

Best of luck to you,

SG257
 
Blest one

Bless you!!!

You are the epitome of patience. I would have never had time for that!

My youngest son was AHDD or whatever you call over active add.

I raised Arabian Horses, ranched. We had up to 24, 1000 pound animals on our property. Do you know how dangerous that can be to a child not trained to obey on the first command? We raised our own meat, which meant at one time or another, we had big sows and occaisional bull. I came from a farming family so my mom learned early that instant obedience was demanded not asked for.

I was trying to picture myself going through these stages of discipline. My kids helped me from a very early age. If I yelled stop and retreat, it meant now. Not after we went through a routine. I am sure there are other folks out there with lifestyles that required trained kids.

By the way, my sons live near me, call me daily, have very time demanding jobs. Both tell me they are so grateful for the way they were raised. Both did well in school, neither were ever in any trouble (both raised in an area of Southern California where trouble abounded) both are hard workers. The oldest is married with kids and a great father. The other still single but has worked with tiny tots at the skating rink. He went to the Olympic Training Center as a speed skater.

My kids had as much affection as they did discipline.
 
It’s the middle of the night (up with a teething baby) so I can’t type much at the moment.

First- you CAN parent well without spanking (remember those pre-school teachers metioned above? No hitting is needed for them, right?). Try Parenting With Grace, Dr. Sears Discipline book (pm me if you want my copy), and Playful Parenting by Cohen.

The one thing I wanted to say was to choose your battles wisely. I struggled with this myself, but- my kids CAN jump on the couch- I realized- #1- the couch is sturdy, #2- it is great fun for them 🙂 and #3- our pediareician said she lets her kids do it too, and that it’s no more unsafe than playground equipment 😉 .

So- I have let lots of things go- couch jumping, laughing about poop 😃 , fighting about what they wear (they do dress appropriately for Mass- but my son has been known to wear shorts and his dress up firefighter coat to the store at 3 years old), etc.

If what they are doing is unsafe for them or others (or property), or if it is a moral/ soul issue- you must gently and consistently discipline them.

I have found (I also have 3 young ones) that my kids act up most when HALT - hungry, angry, lonely or tired, so- it takes extra work on my part to- be sure they are well nourished with healthy foods, well rested, given time and attention when lonely or angry. Some would say not to give attention to anger, but I disagree, little people don’t know how to deal with anger (heck, neither do lots of big people), so- if I see my 3 year old son get angry that the baby knocked over his tower of blocks, I need to step right in and help him get over the anger, instead of leaving him to his own devices and having him get angry enough to hit the baby.

Good foods, good rest, good consistent/fair/necessary rules, and lots of time connecting with your kids through play, and this too shall pass 👍 .

PS- make sure you get breaks from the kids when you are at the end of your rope- let your dh take them for ice cream while you get a bath now and then, or- better yer, find a church with Adoration and spend your quiet time with the Lord .

PPS- and I said I didn’t have much time to write 😛 , sleeping babe in my arms now- off to bed!
 
I have 3 boys also and understand the frustration of trying to find something that works. Two of the three boys have been very focused in their missions! LOL My youngest now is 8.

My suggestion is to focus ONLY on the big things for now. I posted on the fridge the behavior and an “=” sign with the consequence. So… for example…

jumping on couch = 1 hour in bedroom (quiet time)
Hitting another child = apology & quiet time in bedroom
Destroying bedroom = can only come out for dinner and potty until cleaned up

I use time away in bedroom a lot as it gives space and time to recoup. I also recommend the books by John Rosemond. He has a ton of tips just like these. He doesn’t support bribes and spanking is totally a last resort with triggers for parents to evaluate before going there.

I have a girlfriend with a very challenging son who used this technique and it worked like a charm. Let some of the small things go… don’t send to room over every little thing or you lose your power. Just the things that put him at risk or others.

You can take away outside time, friend time, tv time… these are all ways to utilize privileges and promote good behavior. When he behaves and you “catch” him being good, in a situation that may have played out differently… you reward with staying up a bit later or doing something just with him.

He is the oldest and probably feels like he is getting slighted with attention being shared. This is a child’s only way of seeking that attention… negative is better then nothing (in a child’s eye). Even if he gets attention, it doesn’t mean he sees it that way. He just needs to be shown how to get the attention in a way that is appropriate.

Always praise his little accomplishments and expect to send to room quite a bit when this first starts until he understand you mean business!
 
Well, I’m coming to you as a fellow mom of young boys, not as a mom who has successfully raised her boys. I have 2 boys - 27 months and 15 months. We are just now starting more of what I call “intense” discipline with my 2 year old. Before he turned 2 it was mostly redirection and a couple of “time outs” in his crib. The one thing I’ve tried to do is to always warn him once before he gets “punished”. I will tell him what the punishment is before it happens. For example, if he won’t stop throwing sand in the sandbox, I tell him if he throws sand once more we’re going inside. Usually it’s time out in his room for 2 minutes but we have swatted him before for running in a parking lot (after being reminded not to) or something else that is dangerous that he’s been warned not to do.

Some days he listens very well and I feel so good about myself as a Mom. Then there are days like yesterday that are a whole 'nother story. 😉

God bless you in your parenting journey. I’ll pray for you if you’ll pray for me! 😃
 
Mother of six sons here…youngest are six year old twins, eldest is 20 and serving in the United States Marine Corps.

Firstly, no two children are alike! No single parenting method will work for “all” children alike.

Try to figure out your child’s personality type and see what works to bring him into conformity with your expectations (and expect every now again that he will fall short of those expectations!)

Spanking is not evil. Sometimes, it is necessary. Never spank when you are angry. Wait until the offense can be discussed, then administer the punishment accordingly.

Try rewards. Sibling is sitting nicely on the couch, while older sib is jumping? Give the sitting child a reward - a sticker, a snack, letting him choose the tv channel or dvd to watch–whatever–and praise him for respecting the furniture and sitting nicely.

If you permit your child to jump on the furniture at home, he’s likely to do so when you take him to visit others. Others won’t appreciate that behavior and lack of discipline.

The pediatrician who says she lets her kids jump on her furniture at home can probably well afford to purchase new furniture whenever it pleases her and doesn’t realize that she’s fostering a really bad behavior. No wonder so many doctors’ kids I’ve known over the years seem to have no respect for others’ or their own parents’ property…(sorry to offend any of you physicians out there - I’m speaking mostly from my teenage years, and my friends whose parents were doctors. They simply seemed to have the philosophy, “easy come, easy go…” and that included cars, furniture, clothing, whatever…very expendable. Not a philosophy I’d want my kids to exhibit toward others’ property.)

Many moons ago, in an exclusive store, I was complimented on the excellent and polite behavior of my children, who kept their hands to themselves and were very respectful of the items on display. The store owner said it was, sadly, very common that the majority of affluent parents permitted their children to touch, play with, break, climb all over, all of the very pricey items she’d painstakingly ordered and set up. (Hey, I couldn’t afford to replace that stuff, so I warned my kids in advance - “Don’t touch anything!!!”) 😉

Parenting isn’t for wimps - remember that. Sometimes you are going to have to do something that pushes you beyond your “comfort zone.” Only do so when you feel that it is in the child’s best interest.

I have a strong-willed grandchild, and spanking is completely ineffective with her. However, she feels it’s horrific to have to stand in the corner for a couple of minutes…!

Punishment must fit the crime, and fit the child! Punishment is meant to deter the bad behavior in the future, so be sure it does make that impression.
 
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robertaf:
Greetings

First of all, I am a 68 year old grandmother. I raised two boys and have helped to raise the oldest of my grandsons. Three other grandchildren came to us by marriage.

I am from a different generatioin than you so I have very different ideas, some come from first hand experience. The one thing I like to think about is, how would this behavior strike you if the kid was 16 or 17? Believe it or not, it starts this early and if not curbed, continues.
The other thing I would ask is who is the adult and who is in control?

I have never been good enough to raise a boy without spanking when necessary. There is a major difference between disciplinary spanking and abuse. I think it is about time parents learn the difference. It is also time when parents learn to be consistant. I told my boys, “I will tell you one time only, the next time you get a swat”. A swat is not a spanking, a swat is a stinging swat to the butt. Yeah, stining. It is suppose to sting. Spankings are 2 or 3 stinging swats. Not love taps, stinging swats.

I cannot even imagine my kids jumping on my sofa!!! Sofas cost a ton of money that someone has worked danged hard to buy. One time and off to their room to think about it. Next time a stinging swat.

My grandma use to quote from the Scriptures. " The parent that spares the rod, hates their child". I tend to agree, but rather than hate, fears their child.

Grow up mom, you are the adult and you should be the one in control. 16 and 17 years old comes before you can ever believe it.

Allowing kids to grow up with no self control is not love.
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I think this is timeless advice from someone who has been there. God bless you robertaf, I bet your boys love and respect you.
 
Thank you all for the great advice. When I was growing up, I had no boundaries & could do what I wanted. I DO NOT want that for my boys. It got me into trouble more than a few times. I do want them to have definite boundaries & be respectful of others.
Thanks again for all the good advice. I have read most of the books you have mentioned. Dr. James Dobson, etc.
Thanks for the encouragement & it is reassuring that I have been doing a lot of what has been suggested.
I’ll be praying for you, too, MaryB23!!!
 
P.S.
I have already thought of how they would act when they are 16 years old & that is why I asked for some advice. I don’t want them to be wild & crazy out of control teenagers!
 
mom of 3 boys:
I have 3 boys, aged 3, 2, & 7 months. My two older boys are out of control. They don’t respect me & listen to what I am telling them…I currently use counting, and it worked for a while, but now my oldest is just really defiant! He stands on the couch & jumps off it. I tell him all day every day not to do it. He punches his brother & talks back to me, the list goes on and on…
Please help!!!
Click to expand...
Welcome to the wonderful, frantic, chaotic world of parenting multiple boys. Fasten your seatbelt, take a deep breath…and welcome to the next 15 years of your life!!! You will have to decide how much time you want to spend as a referee. They will ALWAYS wrestle, jump off things, and generally blow off steam in a very physical way. Get them outside as much as possible and distinguish between natural energy release (an almost constant endeavor) and disrespect of you and your rules.
 
I’m a mother of a 2 year old boy and a 7 month old girl. I also tend to my 3 nephews (6,4,2) when their moms at work. So here’s my advice…

Be consistent with them. Don’t scream and yell. Don’t just stand there and count at them.
Time-outs do work if used properly. Make sure they know they know the rules though. If they don’t know the rules they don’t know why they are in trouble.
Don’t wait to discipline them (unless you are too angry to do so in a loving but gentle manner).
Especially at such a young age they aren’t going to remember in 10 minutes that they hit anyone.

My 2 year old gets sat in a chair for his time-out. T.V. off (it’s normally off, but if we happen to be watching then it goes off), and he sits until we tell him he can get up. Then he says sorry (more of a pat on my stomach but that okay)

I’m not against spanking, if done sparingly. But when they get older I don’t think it’s effective. I mean really a 6 year old getting spanked? Okay whatever it may hurt for then but then they can go play again. When they are older privledges get taken away. (i.e. they can’t play with friends, watch tv or whatever is appopriate for the offense).
It’s hard to take privlidges away from kids who are under 4. So sometimes spanking may have to be used. But don’t over do that either.
Make sure you put more in there emotional banks then you are taking out. (READ “Parenting with Grace” by the Popcaks)
 
Panis Angelicas:
If you permit your child to jump on the furniture at home, he’s likely to do so when you take him to visit others. Others won’t appreciate that behavior and lack of discipline.

The pediatrician who says she lets her kids jump on her furniture at home can probably well afford to purchase new furniture whenever it pleases her and doesn’t realize that she’s fostering a really bad behavior. No wonder so many doctors’ kids I’ve known over the years seem to have no respect for others’ or their own parents’ property…(sorry to offend any of you physicians out there - I’m speaking mostly from my teenage years, and my friends whose parents were doctors. They simply seemed to have the philosophy, “easy come, easy go…” and that included cars, furniture, clothing, whatever…very expendable. Not a philosophy I’d want my kids to exhibit toward others’ property.)

Many moons ago, in an exclusive store, I was complimented on the excellent and polite behavior of my children, who kept their hands to themselves and were very respectful of the items on display. The store owner said it was, sadly, very common that the majority of affluent parents permitted their children to touch, play with, break, climb all over, all of the very pricey items she’d painstakingly ordered and set up. (Hey, I couldn’t afford to replace that stuff, so I warned my kids in advance - “Don’t touch anything!!!”) 😉
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First- I am glad I was able to give my advice without picking apart others 😉 .

Secondly- my children do not ever jump on the furniture at other people’s homes, and are very respectful of other’s property. It is silly to assume that children can’t understand the difference of something they can do at home, but not in other’s homes (unless my children are extraordinarily intelligent 😛 ). Another example- my children know not to walk around naked in other people’s homes. I think all families have some things that their children are allowed to do at home but not elsewhere.

Thirdly- my pediatrician is a family friend, she only works part time, and I can only laugh at the assertion that she has money to throw away.

Just because someone allows their children to jump on the furniture does not mean that the parent isn’t teaching their children to respect property, or that their couch will be ruined (where are people purchasing such fragile couches?), or that they lack the guts to discipline their children, etc. any more than the parents who don’t allow it are uptight, controlling, and overly concerned with material possessions, so- maybe we could stop the generalizations.

I too, am complimented everywhere we go on my children’s good behavior, they are fabulous kids, who are respectful, polite and a joy to be around, thank you very much.

The OP asked for BTDT ideas, and I gave my thoughts on what has worked for us. The OP seemed to want to avoid spanking, so I pointed out ways to do that which have worked for us.
 
Thank you all again. I agree that it is hard to take priveliges away from kids under 4. When they get older, they will have things taken away, such as play dates, time on the phone, computer, etc.
I do get them outside as much as possible - it really helps having them burn the energy off!
Another thing that has really worked for me is to use a timer & set it in their room. When it dings, they know they can come out. I guess I am worried about the disrespect & talking back.
They also know that they can not climb on other people’s furniture & do other things that they do here.
I agree that they need to listen right away if I tell them to stop doing something. I would hate to have them run away from me in a parking lot or in a store.
Keep the advice coming please…
 
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