Help in dealing with non-catholic friends

[Calgar]

either they believe the word of God and the devil will never take over the Catholic Church. Or they are right and the Pope is the devil and God lied to us.

Or they don’t believe that the catholic church is the one church.

 

[rinnie]

Or they don’t believe that the catholic church is the one church.

Isn’t that why we have reason and history? Jesus started the Catholic Church. Show me where anyone but Jesus is responsible for doing so.

Who started the Baptist Church was it not a person? Go down the line, any Protestant Church is founded by a human Person, not Humam And Divine like the CC.

In order to deny the CC as the OHCAC would mean to deny Christ started it do you not agree? Prove that it was not started by Christ as the Apostles show us.

Historys shows us the RCC can be traced to St Peter and St Paul, History shows us that Saint Peter has the keys to the kingdom given to him from Christ.

Now show me where History shows us that the Catholic Church was not founded by Christ. Because you cannot, History shows it was indeed founded by Christ. Christ build his Church on ST Peter. How do you deny this?

 

[Calgar]

Jesus started the Catholic Church. Show me where anyone but Jesus is responsible for doing so.

Before we go any further let me state that I love and respect you, as I do all fellow Christians.

You have made a statement without posting any proof and you expect me to provide proof to the contrary?

The onus is on you to provide evidence for your statement.

But I think I can guess where this will go. You believe Christ referred to the roman catholic church based off of statements from the Holy Bible. I believe Christ was referring to all Christians.

This is a great conversation that I would enjoy discussing in depth over the course of many weeks, but the internet is not the correct forum (over breakfast at Jacks would be nice ). I’m sure there is much discussion that has already covered everything that you or I could ever post here (forum search).

Back to the op’s “dealing with non-catholic friends”. Deal with them the same way I deal with my catholic and orthadox friends. Accept that they are Christians and love them accordingly.

 

[rinnie]

Before we go any further let me state that I love and respect you, as I do all fellow Christians.

You have made a statement without posting any proof and you expect me to provide proof to the contrary?

The onus is on you to provide evidence for your statement.

But I think I can guess where this will go. You believe Christ referred to the roman catholic church based off of statements from the Holy Bible. I believe Christ was referring to all Christians.

This is a great conversation that I would enjoy discussing in depth over the course of many weeks, but the internet is not the correct forum (over breakfast at Jacks would be nice ). I’m sure there is much discussion that has already covered everything that you or I could ever post here (forum search).

Back to the op’s “dealing with non-catholic friends”. Deal with them the same way I deal with my catholic and orthadox friends. Accept that they are Christians and love them accordingly.

Well the Church is ONE, the Church is Holy, The Church is Catholic (universal) the Church is Apostolic (goes by the teaching’s of the Apostles).

Now what other faith besides the Catholic faith do you know of that follow only ONE teaching?

Show me ONE Protestant Church that is ONE as far as ONE TEACHING for all?

Also just your opiniion here do you feel that St Peter was not part of the Roman Catholic Church? Just wondering?

Also are you saying that the upper room where the Holy Spirit came to after his death was NOT the Catholic Church?

What Church do you say it was, and where is your history to show this. History shows the Church in Jerusalem in the year 33.

 

[Calgar]

Well the Church is ONE, the Church is Holy, The Church is Catholic (universal) the Church is Apostolic (goes by the teaching’s of the Apostles).

Now what other faith besides the Catholic faith do you know of that follow only ONE teaching?

Show me ONE Protestant Church that is ONE as far as ONE TEACHING for all?

Also just your opiniion here do you feel that St Peter was not part of the Roman Catholic Church? Just wondering?

So you aren’t going to provide any evidence to support your claim?

 

[rinnie]

So you aren’t going to provide any evidence to support your claim?

Sure go to the book of Acts 1 and 2. The first Church was started After the resurrection of Christ on the day of Pentecost. Go and read it, in the year 33 A.D.

It was the first Catholic Church as I told you. Are you saying that the upper room at the time of Pentecost was not the first Catholic Church and St Peter started another Church rather then the Catholic Church?

Also if St Peter started your Church why do you not follow the path and listen to the Pope then? The Pope can be traced directly to St Peter.

To be completely accurate St Peter started the VISIBLE Church here on earth, but it is LED by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing has changed the same Holy Spirit who led the first Catholic Church is still leading it today.

Another piece of proof. ONE TRUTH, the teaching’s have never ever changed, another proof there is only ONE TRUTH, ONE CHURCH.

 

[rinnie]

Also please read the book of Acts. The First church council of Jersualem. Read the 12 Chapters of Acts.

The Early Church ALWAYS accepted the Bishop of Rome. Now how could they accept the Bishop of Rome and you have to agree the Church of Rome is indeed the Roman Catholic Church, but to the point please find your own history and you will see they would not accept the Bishop of Rome if they were not of the Catholic Church.

You must find this information yourself. It is not hard to find!

 

[jmcrae]

So you aren’t going to provide any evidence to support your claim?

Matthew 16:18-19:

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 21:15-19:

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

These two passages show us that Jesus meant to establish one Church, and that He intended for Peter to be the head of that Church.

Of which Church is Peter the head?

Check it out - notice whose name is at the top of the list?

Now - whose name is at the top of the list of the leaders of - say - Lutheranism, for example: That’s right - Martin Luther. He wasn’t alive at the time of Christ, yet, so it is not possible for him to be the leader that Jesus chose for His Church.

Presbyterians? John Knox. Born and died in the 1500s. Not possible, then, for him to be the leader that Jesus chose, either.

Are there any other possibilities?

Let me know if you find any.

The fact remains that none of the Churches mentioned in the Bible could possibly have been any form of Protestantism. All of them were members of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that was headed by Peter - that is to say, the Catholic Church - same one that we all still know and love today - it alone has outlasted not only the Roman Empire, but many other empires that have come and gone in the meantime.

 

[BigFellaMick]

These two passages show us that Jesus meant to establish one Church, and that He intended for Peter to be the head of that Church.

Of which Church is Peter the head?

Check it out - notice whose name is at the top of the list?

Now - whose name is at the top of the list of the leaders of - say - Lutheranism, for example: That’s right - Martin Luther. He wasn’t alive at the time of Christ, yet, so it is not possible for him to be the leader that Jesus chose for His Church.

Presbyterians? John Knox. Born and died in the 1500s. Not possible, then, for him to be the leader that Jesus chose, either.

Are there any other possibilities?

Let me know if you find any.

The fact remains that none of the Churches mentioned in the Bible could possibly have been any form of Protestantism. All of them were members of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that was headed by Peter - that is to say, the Catholic Church - same one that we all still know and love today - it alone has outlasted not only the Roman Empire, but many other empires that have come and gone in the meantime.

Amen to this

 

[Journey322]

Hello there everyone! I am a new convert and I came into the Church after leaving an INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST CHURCH. I was a part of that church for many years and developed some friendships there that I would like to maintain. I have found this to be very difficult. I tried to attend a Bible study there and even attended a few services, but after becoming Catholic and seeing the beauty of the Mass, I NOW see the many flaws in the teachings and beliefs AND “worship” in my former church. However, I still want to maintain my relationships with some of my friends from the baptist church…I just don’t know how. Attending services and Bible studies there only made me feel uncomfortable. How can I maintain relationships with non- catholic friends outside of the church building? Thanks in advance for your help and GOD bless!

Invite them do dinner or a movie or whatever. Respect their beliefs and expect the same in return. Hanging out at church or in Bible Studies may no longer be an option but there are plenty of other things you can do together.

 

[Calgar]

**1 **Sure go to the book of Acts 1 and 2. The first Church was started After the resurrection of Christ on the day of Pentecost. Go and read it, in the year 33 A.D.

It was the first Catholic Church as I told you. 2 Are you saying that the upper room at the time of Pentecost was not the first Catholic Church and St Peter started another Church rather then the Catholic Church?

**3 **Also if St Peter started your Church why do you not follow the path and listen to the Pope then? The Pope can be traced directly to St Peter.

**4 ** To be completely accurate St Peter started the VISIBLE Church here on earth, but it is LED by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Nothing has changed the same Holy Spirit who led the first Catholic Church is still leading it today.

5 Another piece of proof. ONE TRUTH, the teaching’s have never ever changed, another proof there is only ONE TRUTH, ONE CHURCH.

I’ve added numbers to my quote of you to help with my answers.

1. Okay, I read them again.
2. Yes it was the church. The church is made up of all Christians (body of believers).
3. Christ started the church. Peter and the other apostles continued with the work Christ laid out for them, and all believers.
4. Again, the church is made up of all Christians. And if you have trouble determining who the Christians are just turn to the Holy Bible.
5. Excuse me if I don’t take your word for it.

I would also like to point out that there are protestants who will agree that Peter started the church and that the roman catholic church was the first church created by Christ using Peter. They believe that the roman catholic church lost that honor through it’s own transgressions (I don’t believe this).

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve added numbers to my quote of you to help with my answers.

1. Okay, I read them again.
2. Yes it was the church. The church is made up of all Christians (body of believers).
3. Christ started the church. Peter and the other apostles continued with the work Christ laid out for them, and all believers.

“All believers” being, at that time, fully in communion with Peter, the Head of the Church. At what point in history did it ever become possible to be “a Christian” without also being a follower of Peter and the Apostles (or their successors)?

1. Again, the church is made up of all Christians. And if you have trouble determining who the Christians are just turn to the Holy Bible.

Do you believe that disobedience can separate one from the Church of Jesus Christ?

The Protestants are so called because they were disobedient, and separated themselves from Christ’s Church through disobedience. (Read Numbers 16 for the Old Testament prophecy of this event.)

 

[rinnie]

I’ve added numbers to my quote of you to help with my answers.

1. Okay, I read them again.
2. Yes it was the church. The church is made up of all Christians (body of believers).
3. Christ started the church. Peter and the other apostles continued with the work Christ laid out for them, and all believers.
4. Again, the church is made up of all Christians. And if you have trouble determining who the Christians are just turn to the Holy Bible.
5. Excuse me if I don’t take your word for it.

I would also like to point out that there are protestants who will agree that Peter started the church and that the roman catholic church was the first church created by Christ using Peter. They believe that the roman catholic church lost that honor through it’s own transgressions (I don’t believe this).

I would never expect you to take my word for it. But I would expect you to take the word of God. Here it is.

Read Luke 11:17 Jesus says a kingdom divided against itself…

So how could Jesus make many Church’s? Jesus said a kingdom divided against itself will fail. That is why there can be no more then One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

If there are more Church’s then one then why did God say in Matt 16:18 Upon this rock I will build my CHURCH. Why does it not state Many Church’s then.

Why did you quote that the CHURCH is made up of a body of belivers, which I agree with of course this is Catholic teaching. It is YOU, not I who differ on there being plural Church’s.

Why did you not say that the CHURCH"S Plural are made up of a body of believer’s then?

Now you said the Church is made up of ALL Christians, could you show me where this is in the bible. The bible says in Matt 24:24 that even the elect (which is Christians) will be deceived. False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders so great as they DECEIVE.

So if the Church is made up of all Christians and there is many Church’s how can a kingdom divided against itself stand then?? Jesus said this is impossible.

 

[rinnie]

Also I understand you do not agree with what others believe, but how can the Church lose honor through the trangression’s of Humans?

The Church is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit, how can people believe that the Holy Spirit teaching the human leaders through the Holy Roman Church fail in its teaching’s?

Christ promised us the Advocate the Holy Spirit to lead the Church until the end of age. Christ promised us he would never leave us orphans.

What I never heard Christ promise us is that our leaders will be without sin. Only Christ is without sin and his Mother of course who was saved from it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Where was St Peter sinless in his journey. Why did St Paul say he is working out his salvation with fear and trembling if he felt he was sinless??

What about St Peter when asked if he knew Jesus and he lied and said No? Is not that lie a sin? I have never read in the bible or Sacred Tradition a promise from God that all of our leaders would be sinless. We are even warned many leaders will try to attack and bring down the Holy Roman Church, but Christ said they will never fail. That the gates of hell will not prevail.

And over 2000 years later he has kept this promise. The Catholic Church is still standing in spirte of human failings and even horrible sin.

 

[rinnie]

Something else for people to think about.

Christ told his disciples in Gal 1:6-10 that even in THIER lifetime they will see his Gospel Changed.

His holy word would be altered by those who appropriate his name and Exploit it calling Jesus Christ but perverting his message for their gain. This is quite clear to read in Acts 8:9-24.

But we are told to stick to the teaching;s of the Church, the Church is the pilar of all truth.

You hear other so called church’s claiming that the Apostles do not have the power of the Holy Spirit to forgive sin in the name of Christ, that the power was not passed down today.
So what then, God only gave people in the era of the Apostles to have their sin forgiven. It makes no sense does it. Why would God give a power and then only make it last for such a short time. He would not. His said his Holy Spirit is with us until the end of age.

 

[Calgar]

At what point in history did it ever become possible to be “a Christian” without also being a follower of Peter and the Apostles (or their successors)?

So you’re saying you must follow Peter and his “successors” to be a Christian? And here all this time I thought you just had to follow Christ to be a Christian.

Do you believe that disobedience can separate one from the Church of Jesus Christ?

You mean sin?

Read Numbers 16 for the Old Testament prophecy of this event.

Please be more specific. I don’t see prophecy there.

 

[David]

Hello there everyone! I am a new convert and I came into the Church after leaving an INDEPENDENT FUNDAMENTAL BAPTIST CHURCH. I was a part of that church for many years and developed some friendships there that I would like to maintain. I have found this to be very difficult. I tried to attend a Bible study there and even attended a few services, but after becoming Catholic and seeing the beauty of the Mass, I NOW see the many flaws in the teachings and beliefs AND “worship” in my former church. However, I still want to maintain my relationships with some of my friends from the baptist church…I just don’t know how. Attending services and Bible studies there only made me feel uncomfortable. How can I maintain relationships with non- catholic friends outside of the church building? Thanks in advance for your help and GOD bless!

Angierabbit, thanks for starting this thread. I have never been a Protestant, but this is the most interesting thread I have ever read! One thing that I love about being Catholic is I can go to any Catholic Church I want. We have so many great activities. Most Catholic Churches have their own websites. Some have online weekly bulletins that list activities. Check it out.

Peace
David

 

[anodos]

So you’re saying you must follow Peter and his “successors” to be a Christian? And here all this time I thought you just had to follow Christ to be a Christian.

Calgar, no one is saying that you must call yourself a Roman Catholic in order to be a Christian. That is not what Catholicism teaches.

This is a great conversation that I would enjoy discussing in depth over the course of many weeks, but the internet is not the correct forum (over breakfast at Jacks would be nice ). I’m sure there is much discussion that has already covered everything that you or I could ever post here (forum search).

It sounds like you need to start a thread called “Breakfast at Jack’s”. (Is that like “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”, only with hot wings?)

 

[Calgar]

Calgar, no one is saying that you must call yourself a Roman Catholic in order to be a Christian. That is not what Catholicism teaches.

jmcrai said it. Did you read his post?

It sounds like you need to start a thread called “Breakfast at Jack’s”. (Is that like “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”, only with hot wings?)

No, I meant it literally. I really enjoy discussion, but the internet just turns me off. I’d reather sit down and do it face to face.

 

[anodos]

Calgar:
The Catholic Church recognizes non-Catholic Christians as such. You’re right, I only skimmed jmcrae’s post, I’m sorry about that! (I try to be careful, and I fail anyway.)

Protestants are followers of Peter and his successors to some extent, to varying degrees; they trace their roots back to the Catholic Church. I don’t want to assume what you do or don’t believe, but if you would agree that Jesus is a Divine person who is both fully God and fully man, that God is three persons with one nature, that scripture is inspired by God and inerrant, that you can’t earn salvation by your own merit but are saved by God’s grace through faith and faith without works is dead, etc., etc., you are a follower at least as far as that.
(My $0.02. Feel free to correct me or to get back on topic.)