HELP! Looking for a Passage

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I read somewhere in the Bible something that indicated ( or I thought it meant) people are held accountable only for what has been revealed to them. I am pretty certain it was NT- but have combed through the books of the NT, all my highlighted passages, etc and cannot find it. The need to find it arose after a conversation with a friend whose Episcopal Bishop was quoted as saying there may be more than one means of salvation. I think she may have been referring to infants/ unborn/ peoples who die before ever hearing of Christ. I have heard apologists say that we don’t really know what happens to those… and I can accept that… but I’m thinking this passage lends itself to an understanding that in God’s omnipotence, He may grant salvation to those populations of people who have never been exposed to Christ and the Good News-- at the particular judgement where they have a chance to know and accept Him. Not sure:confused: … but I’d love help finding this passage… if anyone out there remembers it. Thanks and God Bless You All!
 
Some possibilities:

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. 12:48 But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. \

John 9:39 Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.” 9:40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, “Are we also blind?” 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, We see,’ your guilt remains.
 
Oh Thank you so much Nita! John 15:22 was the passage I was thinking of… but the others are great too! I am so thrilled to have found this forum… this is only my second post. I appreciate your help.👍 God Bless You! JV
 
You’re welcome.

And, welcome to Cathoic Answers Forums (CAF).

God bless you also,
Nita
 
Actually the bible says that all men are without excuse…

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
 
Meaning…?..that all should intrinsically know God because of His revelation in creation? Would that guarantee salvation for those who never hear of Christ? :confused: I’m not sure I follow this one.
 
There is no guarantee for those who aren’t in Christ for salvation. God says that creation clearly points to a creator, and the conscience bears witness to His laws.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2:12-16

So all men are without excuse, they have the creation and their conscience to convict them of their sin. I pray no man dies without hearing the gospel, but there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.
 
How do we reconcile …

John 15:22 – If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

… with …

Leviticus 5:17 – If any one sin, and do any of the things which Jehovah hath commanded not to be done, though he knew it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.

:confused:
 
RE: So all men are without excuse, they have the creation and their conscience to convict them of their sin. I pray no man dies without hearing the gospel, but there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

So a person in your church comes up to you, devastated by the loss of his/her 1 year old child… and wants to know what the Bible says about the chances of her child going to heaven, being saved, what do you say?
 
JVMOMOF4 said:
RE: So all men are without excuse, they have the creation and their conscience to convict them of their sin. I pray no man dies without hearing the gospel, but there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ.

So a person in your church comes up to you, devastated by the loss of his/her 1 year old child… and wants to know what the Bible says about the chances of her child going to heaven, being saved, what do you say?
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CCC1261: … the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism …
 
Sir Knight:

I totally agree!!! 👍 I have read this before in the CCC and heard this on apologists programs. And, I believe those verses I was looking for support just that. I just wondered how myredeemerlives would have answered, given that the Protestants I know (and dearly love) would say that because of God’s mercy the child would be in heaven. But if we go by what myredeemerlives said then there would be no hope for that child. Thanks for your help on that one.

About reconciling Leviticus and John 15:22-- I’m not sure-- wow! I’d like to give that more thought and study.:confused:
 
I didn’t think we were talking about children… I thought we were talking about adults who have never heard the gospel.

I believe that all children will go to heaven.
 
I would like to throw a little cautionary note into this mix:

The OP wrote:
JVMOMOF4 said:
after a conversation with a friend whose Episcopal Bishop was quoted as saying there may be more than one means of salvation.
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Thing is, there is only one means of salvation… “One Way,” so to speak.

All who are saved are saved by grace through Christ.

Lack of baptism cannot save one. Buddhism cannot save one. Islam cannot save one. Animism cannot save one. (I could go on…)

This does not mean that all who lived their entire earthly lives unbaptized, Buddhist, Muslim, or Animist (et al.) will be utterly excluded from heaven. It means that all who do enter heaven will enter through Christ, and by His Grace.

The fact that we have reason to hope for the salvation of unbaptized infants is no reason to delay baptism. Of course, when one is in that position, I would point to the Church’s true teaching that we do, in fact, have reason to hope.

God established Baptism as normatively necessary. He binds us to the Sacrament; he is not himself bound by the Sacrament (except to the extent that he has bound himself to grant the graces of the Sacrament when it is validly conferred). He may grant those graces to anyone.

That is why we can say that it is possible for those who were not Christians in this lifetime to enter heaven.

We just leave the judgment of individual cases to God! 🙂
 
Can I ask a serious question…

How can you say on one hand that Jesus gave us the church to dispense His grace through the sacraments so we can be saved and say that is the only way to heaven and then turn around and say but that’s not the only way He does it?

It makes no sense to me at all.
 
myredeemerlives said:
Can I ask a serious question…

How can you say on one hand that Jesus gave us the church to dispense His grace through the sacraments so we can be saved and say that is the only way to heaven and then turn around and say but that’s not the only way He does it?

It makes no sense to me at all.
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Are there not usually more than one way to accomplish something?
 
Sure. But the bible teaches there is only one way… and that is through Jesus Christ. And the Catholic church teaches that it’s through the sacraments that Jesus distributes His saving grace.

If there are many ways, why have the sacraments at all?
 
myredeemerlives said:
Sure. But the bible teaches there is only one way… and that is through Jesus Christ. And the Catholic church teaches that it’s through the sacraments that Jesus distributes His saving grace.

If there are many ways, why have the sacraments at all?
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Because Jesus Christ established them.
 
We are BOUND by the sacraments but God is not. For example, we can seek forgiveness and be assured of forgiveness only via confession. God, however, is not limited in extending His forgiveness only through confession.
 
myredeemerlives said:
Can I ask a serious question…

How can you say on one hand that Jesus gave us the church to dispense His grace through the sacraments so we can be saved and say that is the only way to heaven and then turn around and say but that’s not the only way He does it?

It makes no sense to me at all.
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Because God is a Father who keeps His promises.

He established the Church as His family. All who live in the family home, i.e., heaven, will be members of that Church Triumphant.

But not all of those who are members of that Church in heaven will have been card-carrying members of the Church Militant during their earthly lives.

The Sacraments are means of grace that build up in us the essence of family: a shared life. In this case, it is God’s own Life, His own Holy Spirit dwelling in us, that is built up by our participation in the common life of the Family of God.

As such, this growth in sanctity makes it easier for us to maintain the life of grace, and as we grow in grace, we are capable of greater and greater Love. This corresponds to higher and higher places in heaven. (Merits, if you will.)

The one who is not Catholic, or perhaps not even Christian here on earth, does not have access to the same source and means of Grace. It is objectively better for him if he does have access to them. He has, for example, a better chance of entering heaven. (I never said that all non-Catholics go to heaven, nor even that a majority of them do. I simply, along with the Church, admit the possibility for any individual.)

The non-Catholic who lives according to the Truth as best and as faithfully as he understands it, and who is ultimately saved, receives graces from Christ through His Church, which was sent to minister all Truth to the world. He (the non-Catholic) may not know or admit in this life that he has any connection to the Church, but the Truth that he follows does (however imperfectly) connect him to the Church.

Regards,
Joe
 
myredeemerlives said:
Actually the bible says that all men are without excuse…

Romans 1:20 - For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
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Context, my brother! Without context, I can show you numerous places where the bible appears to contradict itself, thus losing credibility. But, the word of the Lord does not contradict, right?

It’s all about context. John 15 is the word of Christ - the Word made flesh. Since those he spoke to now know the truth, but behave the same, their sin remains and was not forgiven. That was the point. We sinners remain just that. Don’t worry!
 
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