Help me by telling me about your marriage!

[UbiCaritas]

This makes so much sense but just who is Mr./Mrs. right?
And right for you is not right for me, so how can one know if they are the right one just the way they are or need changing.

Well, you can’t do much about the other person and how they’re formed, but you can make yourself the best spouse you can for any rational person.

For example, no reasonable person (ie, someone who you’d like to marry) ever said:
–“If only DH were less handy around the kitchen. It’s so annoying when he makes an inexpensive, yet tasty and healthy dinner!”
–“I wish that DW didn’t know how to do basic clothing repair. I prefer to pay the cleaner $15 to sew on a button.”
–“Wow, I feel so emasculated that DW paid off her student loans before we met.”
–“Ugh, she’s a nurse and volunteers two evenings a month at the local low-income health clinic to get low-income kids basic medical care? Such a turnoff!”
–“I can’t believe he organized a group of extraordinary ministers at his parish to make sure that all the elderly shutins within the parish boundaries get to receive the Eucharist every week. I mean, booooooring!”
–“He’s studying for his MBA in the evenings in order to improve his career opportunities? Meh. I prefer guys who spend their evenings drinking themselves into oblivion at the local strip club.”

Etc.

 

[Xantippe]

**Well, you can’t do much about the other person and how they’re formed, but you can make yourself the best spouse you can for any rational person.
**
For example, no reasonable person (ie, someone who you’d like to marry) ever said:
–“If only DH were less handy around the kitchen. It’s so annoying when he makes an inexpensive, yet tasty and healthy dinner!”
–“I wish that DW didn’t know how to do basic clothing repair. I prefer to pay the cleaner $15 to sew on a button.”
–“Wow, I feel so emasculated that DW paid off her student loans before we met.”
–“Ugh, she’s a nurse and volunteers two evenings a month at the local low-income health clinic to get low-income kids basic medical care? Such a turnoff!”
–“I can’t believe he organized a group of extraordinary ministers at his parish to make sure that all the elderly shutins within the parish boundaries get to receive the Eucharist every week. I mean, booooooring!”
–“He’s studying for his MBA in the evenings in order to improve his career opportunities? Meh. I prefer guys who spend their evenings drinking themselves into oblivion at the local strip club.”

Etc.

Right. If a person doesn’t appreciate that stuff, then who needs 'em?

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

One has to not only to improve themselves but also to cast their nets in different directions. Including non-Catholic.

“What do I bring to marriage?” is an excellent question. It’s very easy to say your potential spouse should be this or that, but it’s usually harder to think about what you would bring to them. I run into many people who haven’t done the hard work in that regard, even after they got married.

If one is lucky enough to have parents who are still together or who remained together til the death of one partner, that is a blessing even in their imperfections for they modeled how it might be possible to persevere in the face of difficult times. My own parents stuck it out, they are still around and together, and that is the thing I most deeply love and respect them for. I’ve seen too many examples of cut and run so that’s one of the things I vet for.

 

[Xantippe]

One has to not only to improve themselves but also to cast their nets in different directions. Including non-Catholic.

I know we’ve discussed this before and I realize that a number of CAFers are happy in mixed marriages, but I see a lot of difficulties with intentionally seeking a mixed marriage as a serious practicing Catholic. Off the top of my head (apologies for overlap):

–serious Protestants may agree with you on certain controversial issues, but won’t be willing to have their children raised Catholic
–non-serious Protestants may scandalize your children
–Sunday obligation and days of obligation (it’s easy for it to look like the Catholic spouse is being legalistic and/or selfish)
–CCE and sacramental preparation and family schedule conflicts (the non-Catholic spouse has to be willing to prioritize them when figuring out family schedules)
–disagreement over school for the kids (is parochial school worth the sacrifice?–etc.)
–sex (people who are not serious practicing Catholics won’t understand why the practicing Catholic spouse won’t do XYZ immoral and/or disgusting sex act and will think the practicing Catholic spouse is being rigid or selfish)
–disagreements over moral family planning methods
–the sudden discovery that the non-Catholic spouse really can’t deal with all these kids, and (since they have no moral qualms about it) are going to go ahead with sterilization

The scenario I imagine is that while under the enchantment of Twoo Love, the non-Catholic or non-practicing Catholic is going to be temporarily charmed and fascinated by the exoticness of Catholic religious practices and will (in all sincerity) promise the sun, moon, and stars, but by the 5-20 year mark, the non-Catholic spouse may be over it and each of these items will be an ongoing source of friction and marital conflict.

This particular arc is common for people dealing with culture shock or cross cultural relationship–you start out in a honeymoon state where everything is amazing and new, but then it all starts irritating you and grating on you.

medium.com/global-perspectives/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-a79957726164#.5dxyu0ivd

It is possible to get over that, but I think it is a fair question–with all of the normal difficulties of marriage (which is already a sort of cross-cultural experience), do we really want to add extra layers of difficulty to the project?

If you marry a nice Protestant woman, you’re going to have a nice Protestant wife, not a nice Catholic wife. Ditto a nice Protestant husband. It’s not fair to marry them secretly expecting them to convert. Also, if they converted in order to marry the Catholic, as they (in the normal course of events) grow less enchanted with their spouse, they may experience the same disenchantment with their new faith.

Apologies for being a downer, but I really have to warn you that a mixed marriage is a bank shot.

 

[AClaire11]

I agree with the above. I love my husband, but my return to Christianity has definitely put a strain on certain parts of our relationship.

 

[pianistclare]

I know we’ve discussed this before and I realize that a number of CAFers are happy in mixed marriages, but I see a lot of difficulties with intentionally seeking a mixed marriage as a serious practicing Catholic. Off the top of my head (apologies for overlap):

–serious Protestants may agree with you on certain controversial issues, but won’t be willing to have their children raised Catholic
–non-serious Protestants may scandalize your children
–Sunday obligation and days of obligation (it’s easy for it to look like the Catholic spouse is being legalistic and/or selfish)
–CCE and sacramental preparation and family schedule conflicts (the non-Catholic spouse has to be willing to prioritize them when figuring out family schedules)
–disagreement over school for the kids (is parochial school worth the sacrifice?–etc.)
–sex (people who are not serious practicing Catholics won’t understand why the practicing Catholic spouse won’t do XYZ immoral and/or disgusting sex act and will think the practicing Catholic spouse is being rigid or selfish)
–disagreements over moral family planning methods
–the sudden discovery that the non-Catholic spouse really can’t deal with all these kids, and (since they have no moral qualms about it) are going to go ahead with sterilization

The scenario I imagine is that while under the enchantment of Twoo Love, the non-Catholic or non-practicing Catholic is going to be temporarily charmed and fascinated by the exoticness of Catholic religious practices and will (in all sincerity) promise the sun, moon, and stars, but by the 5-20 year mark, the non-Catholic spouse may be over it and each of these items will be an ongoing source of friction and marital conflict.

This particular arc is common for people dealing with culture shock or cross cultural relationship–you start out in a honeymoon state where everything is amazing and new, but then it all starts irritating you and grating on you.

medium.com/global-perspectives/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-a79957726164#.5dxyu0ivd

It is possible to get over that, but I think it is a fair question–with all of the normal difficulties of marriage (which is already a sort of cross-cultural experience), do we really want to add extra layers of difficulty to the project?

If you marry a nice Protestant woman, you’re going to have a nice Protestant wife, not a nice Catholic wife. Ditto a nice Protestant husband. It’s not fair to marry them secretly expecting them to convert. Also, if they converted in order to marry the Catholic, as they (in the normal course of events) grow less enchanted with their spouse, they may experience the same disenchantment with their new faith.

Apologies for being a downer, but I really have to warn you that a mixed marriage is a bank shot.

+1.
Bigtime

 

[oldgraymare2]

I know we’ve discussed this before and I realize that a number of CAFers are happy in mixed marriages, but I see a lot of difficulties with intentionally seeking a mixed marriage as a serious practicing Catholic. Off the top of my head (apologies for overlap):

–serious Protestants may agree with you on certain controversial issues, but won’t be willing to have their children raised Catholic
–non-serious Protestants may scandalize your children
–Sunday obligation and days of obligation (it’s easy for it to look like the Catholic spouse is being legalistic and/or selfish)
–CCE and sacramental preparation and family schedule conflicts (the non-Catholic spouse has to be willing to prioritize them when figuring out family schedules)
–disagreement over school for the kids (is parochial school worth the sacrifice?–etc.)
–sex (people who are not serious practicing Catholics won’t understand why the practicing Catholic spouse won’t do XYZ immoral and/or disgusting sex act and will think the practicing Catholic spouse is being rigid or selfish)
–disagreements over moral family planning methods
–the sudden discovery that the non-Catholic spouse really can’t deal with all these kids, and (since they have no moral qualms about it) are going to go ahead with sterilization

The scenario I imagine is that while under the enchantment of Twoo Love, the non-Catholic or non-practicing Catholic is going to be temporarily charmed and fascinated by the exoticness of Catholic religious practices and will (in all sincerity) promise the sun, moon, and stars, but by the 5-20 year mark, the non-Catholic spouse may be over it and each of these items will be an ongoing source of friction and marital conflict.

This particular arc is common for people dealing with culture shock or cross cultural relationship–you start out in a honeymoon state where everything is amazing and new, but then it all starts irritating you and grating on you.

medium.com/global-perspectives/the-4-stages-of-culture-shock-a79957726164#.5dxyu0ivd

It is possible to get over that, but I think it is a fair question–with all of the normal difficulties of marriage (which is already a sort of cross-cultural experience), do we really want to add extra layers of difficulty to the project?

If you marry a nice Protestant woman, you’re going to have a nice Protestant wife, not a nice Catholic wife. Ditto a nice Protestant husband. It’s not fair to marry them secretly expecting them to convert. Also, if they converted in order to marry the Catholic, as they (in the normal course of events) grow less enchanted with their spouse, they may experience the same disenchantment with their new faith.

Apologies for being a downer, but I really have to warn you that a mixed marriage is a bank shot.

Hi Xantippe,

I can tell you from personal experience that I grew up with a Protestant extended family, and there were absolutely no religious issues while I was growing up, from what I can recall. In fact, I never even thought of them.

I had a very loving Lutheran Gramma in particular who I was very close to, whose sister was also very loving. My Gramma was a very devout Christian, and she was a great role model to me.

My other family members were also other different Protestant denominations, as well.

My parents were Catholic converts when they married, so they raised my sister and I Catholic.

I was raised to be very open-minded and tolerant towards other religions and other people. While growing up, I was raised to love a person for who they were, and not based on what their religious background happened to be. I had friends of many different faiths while growing up.

I am not married to a Catholic, and I can tell you that religion does not come between my husband and I. Our differences have not stressed our particular marriage. We have always respected each other’s religious differences, and from what we have always shared with each other, they have enriched each other.

That’s what I can share, from my own personal experience.

 

[Xantippe]

Hi Xantippe,

I can tell you from personal experience that I grew up with a Protestant extended family, and there were absolutely no religious issues while I was growing up, from what I can recall. In fact, I never even thought of them.

I had a very loving Lutheran Gramma in particular who I was very close to, whose sister was also very loving. My Gramma was a very devout Christian, and she was a great role model to me.

My other family members were also other different Protestant denominations, as well.

My parents were Catholic converts when they married, so they raised my sister and I Catholic.

I was raised to be very open-minded and tolerant towards other religions and other people. While growing up, I was raised to love a person for who they were, and not based on what their religious background happened to be. I had friends of many different faiths while growing up.

I am not married to a Catholic, and I can tell you that religion does not come between my husband and I. Our differences have not stressed our particular marriage. We have always respected each other’s religious differences, and from what we have always shared with each other, they have enriched each other.

That’s what I can share, from my own personal experience.

I believe Zzyzx Road hopes for a marriage with a high degree of husbandly leadership and wifely submission, so there would be special difficulties in marrying a woman who did not share his faith, particularly a strong Protestant.

I suspect that the kind of Protestant he is interested in would really struggle in marriage to a practicing Catholic and probably would not be willing to marry a Catholic to begin with–a woman like that would strongly prefer an Evangelical husband who could lead their family in their common faith.

I say this being a convert myself, having grown up in a large Evangelical family, having been a young Evangelical woman myself, and having known a lot of Evangelicals over the years and having noted the typical mixed marriage problems that come up on CAF.

 

[AdamP88]

One has to not only to improve themselves but also to cast their nets in different directions. Including non-Catholic.

I have to agree with Xantippe on this. My one non-negotiable dealbreaker was that I wouldn’t have married a non-Catholic or a lapsed Catholic. My wife had the same attitude. I would encourage my kids to have the same attitude.

I think it’s best for kids as well if both parents are on the same page in terms of faith and world view.

I have a cousin who is dating an atheist who voted for gay “marriage” last year. Said cousin was one of the people at the forefront of the No campaign. While I appreciate that he can have such a close relationship with someone with such differing views, I worry that if he married her their kids would grow up with mixed views about religion and marriage.

Why complicate things…Also the OP seems pretty set on finding a Catholic woman. Why encourage him to lower his standard?

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Why complicate things…Also the OP seems pretty set on finding a Catholic woman. Why encourage him to lower his standard?

My concern with dating non-Catholics is that their views on marriage are not the same as ours. I was a protestant before I became Catholic. Divorce and re marriage is very acceptable. It is a concern to marry someone that might go into a marriage with the mentality that if things get a little rough they can just get a divorce (and get half of everything I have worked for) and go re marry.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Good news. I found a app for my phone that lists several young adult groups and events in my Diocese. Exactly what I needed. The app was invented because there were lots of stuff going on in the diocese. Something almost everyday but people did not know how to get connected. That was my main problem. I knew stuff was going on but I did not know where… you find out about young adult groups by word of mouth but I have no Catholic friends my age in my area. Getting connected is hard when you just barely converted in your late 20 and have no practicing Catholic friends that know what is going on either. I just found a wealth of information that I never had before.

 

[Xantippe]

My concern with dating non-Catholics is that their views on marriage are not the same as ours. I was a protestant before I became Catholic. Divorce and re marriage is very acceptable. It is a concern to marry someone that might go into a marriage with the mentality that if things get a little rough they can just get a divorce (and get half of everything I have worked for) and go re marry.

Even when Protestants take marriage seriously (which many do), there is a pretty distinct difference between conservative Protestant and practicing Catholic views on marriage. This is reflected in the fact that Catholics have one of the lowest divorce rates of a religious group in the US, and dual Catholic marriages have some of the best stats.

"Looking at national surveys, the post stated, “Catholics stand out, with only 28% of the ever-married having divorced at some point,” compared to more than 40% of those with no religious affiliation, 39% of Protestants and 35% of those of another religious faith.

"Furthermore, Catholics who marry other Catholics are also less likely to divorce than Catholics married to people of other faiths.

“A 2007 survey from the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate estimates that only 27% of Catholics married to other Catholics have ever experienced divorce, compared to nearly half of Catholics married to Protestants or to spouses with no religious belief.”

ncregister.com/daily-news/catholics-continue-to-have-lowest-divorce-rates

So, I really wouldn’t see why a Catholic guy who is worried about divorce would go specifically looking for Protestant women. I understand that people meet and fall in love outside their faith and often live happily ever after–but to go specifically looking for a non-Catholic woman as a Catholic is a bad idea.

I have to note here that those are just the numbers for “Catholics” or “Protestants”–that doesn’t mean that they have darkened a church door in the last half year–presumably regular churchgoers have better numbers than that, all else being equal. You can also presumably throw in other positives (over 25, first time marriage, and financially stable) and get the number up even higher.

I’m not going to get deeply into it, but I have to object to your phrase “get half of everything I have worked for.” California is a community property state. That means that it’s not “half of everything I have worked for” but half of all property acquired during the marriage, presumably through the efforts of both spouses. Also, the cold hard truth is that (even under the best of circumstances–an ecstatically happy marriage and a pack of cute healthy children), parenthood is going to do some really unfortunate things to your finances. Think of your current disposable income. Now, take 10% of that. That’s what you’re going to have left to spend on yourself once you have 2+ kids. I’m not kidding about that, by the way.

 

[Xantippe]

Good news. I found a app for my phone that lists several young adult groups and events in my Diocese. Exactly what I needed. The app was invented because there were lots of stuff going on in the diocese. Something almost everyday but people did not know how to get connected. That was my main problem. I knew stuff was going on but I did not know where… you find out about young adult groups by word of mouth but I have no Catholic friends my age in my area. Getting connected is hard when you just barely converted in your late 20 and have no practicing Catholic friends that know what is going on either. I just found a wealth of information that I never had before.

That is excellent!

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Good news. I found a app for my phone that lists several young adult groups and events in my Diocese. Exactly what I needed. The app was invented because there were lots of stuff going on in the diocese. Something almost everyday but people did not know how to get connected. That was my main problem. I knew stuff was going on but I did not know where… you find out about young adult groups by word of mouth but I have no Catholic friends my age in my area. Getting connected is hard when you just barely converted in your late 20 and have no practicing Catholic friends that know what is going on either. I just found a wealth of information that I never had before.

Yay! Those groups are a great way to meet new friends - and maybe even to find “the one.”

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Nothing like that in my diocese. I’ve already searched high and low for it. Good luck, sir.

Regarding leadership in marriage, yes I will be the leader as my father was. But I would never, ever confuse my mother with the word submissive, let alone doormat. She was a dominant personality who was very definitely not shy about offering my father her (name removed by moderator)ut. What is important to this discussion is that they modeled how it is possible to stay married despite the occasional strong differences of opinion that can cause marriage to founder in today’s times. Many people don’t have the persistence they used to about these things. So that’s what I look for, someone who isn’t shy about what she wants, but who also understands what it takes to hang in there.

Regarding Catholic vs non-Catholic, let’s just say the available Catholic women in my parishes do not notice me and online dating doesn’t work for me, not even Catholic Match. I’m not against online dating: there are people it works for and I’m happy for them. My social circles are a work in progress, but it’s the secular ones where I can get dates, not the Catholic ones. The points raised here about non-Catholic partners are acknowledged but my attitude is rather than cry in my beer, I’m going to go where the women respond to me and I’ll figure out the rest if I ever get to that bridge.

 

[oldgraymare2]

My concern with dating non-Catholics is that their views on marriage are not the same as ours. I was a protestant before I became Catholic. Divorce and re marriage is very acceptable. It is a concern to marry someone that might go into a marriage with the mentality that if things get a little rough they can just get a divorce (and get half of everything I have worked for) and go re marry.

I certainly respect and understand your views, Laughingboy.

I just wanted to respond to Xantippe’s post.

I don’t want to take anything off-topic for you in terms of making this a Catholic/non-Catholic spouse thread.

I tend to look at things as being more about the person, and how people get along, as opposed to faith issues alone.

It probably also has to do with the kind of household environment that I was personally raised in. I’m probably just used to things being a different way than many people, and where something may be a particular issue for someone else, it isn’t for me.

I think if the people involved in a relationship can get along and work things out and can keep communicating, that is “half the battle,” so to speak.

As I said in my last post, my parents converted to Catholicism before they married, and were married in the Catholic church.

Am I glad that I’m Catholic? Most certainly.

Unfortunately, my parents ended up divorced. I guess that I can say that nothing in life is guaranteed.

 

[Xantippe]

Nothing like that in my diocese. I’ve already searched high and low for it. Good luck, sir.

Regarding leadership in marriage, yes I will be the leader as my father was. But I would never, ever confuse my mother with the word submissive, let alone doormat. She was a dominant personality who was very definitely not shy about offering my father her (name removed by moderator)ut. What is important to this discussion is that they modeled how it is possible to stay married despite the occasional strong differences of opinion that can cause marriage to founder in today’s times. Many people don’t have the persistence they used to about these things. So that’s what I look for, someone who isn’t shy about what she wants, but who also understands what it takes to hang in there.

Regarding Catholic vs non-Catholic, let’s just say the available Catholic women in my parishes do not notice me and online dating doesn’t work for me, not even Catholic Match. I’m not against online dating: there are people it works for and I’m happy for them. My social circles are a work in progress, but it’s the secular ones where I can get dates, not the Catholic ones. The points raised here about non-Catholic partners are acknowledged but my attitude is rather than cry in my beer, I’m going to go where the women respond to me and I’ll figure out the rest if I ever get to that bridge.

You’ve probably heard my view before that trying to date at the parish level is a lot like trying to date at a family reunion.

I suspect that part of the problem is that at your parish, you’re a sort of honorary Cousin George. And Cousin Suzie isn’t going to want to date Cousin George…

 

[EnglishTeacher]

You’ve probably heard my view before that trying to date at the parish level is a lot like trying to date at a family reunion.

I suspect that part of the problem is that at your parish, you’re a sort of honorary Cousin George. And Cousin Suzie isn’t going to want to date Cousin George…

Everyone has different views, but this one never occurred to me at all. When I was single, I often noticed a few single-looking guys who attended Mass regularly, and I would have been happy if one of them had asked me out. Never have I thought of my fellow parishioners as relatives. (Brothers and sisters in Christ, yes, but that goes for all Christians, and it’s definitely not the same as viewing someone like a cousin.)

 

[Xantippe]

Everyone has different views, but this one never occurred to me at all. When I was single, I often noticed a few single-looking guys who attended Mass regularly, and I would have been happy if one of them had asked me out. Never have I thought of my fellow parishioners as relatives. (Brothers and sisters in Christ, yes, but that goes for all Christians, and it’s definitely not the same as viewing someone like a cousin.)

I would have thought the same thing when I was younger–but there are persistent stories (like from Zzyzx Road and others) of people having a hard time meeting anybody at church. And I certainly never got so much as a nibble from anybody I ever went to church with.

You’ll notice that very, very few CAFers report meeting their spouses at church (and this is particularly true of younger people). I’d say that there are a lot more married CAFers who met via online dating or CAF itself or some other Catholic forum.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

I would have thought the same thing when I was younger–but there are persistent stories (like from Zzyzx Road and others) of people having a hard time meeting anybody at church. And I certainly never got so much as a nibble from anybody I ever went to church with.

You’ll notice that very, very few CAFers report meeting their spouses at church (and this is particularly true of younger people). I’d say that there are a lot more married CAFers who met via online dating or CAF itself or some other Catholic forum.

In my four years as head sacristan, we have not had one wedding between two parishioners. Generally, one half of the couple is a parishioner or the child of a parishioner who grew up in the parish but moved away, while the other is someone with no history in the parish.

I met The Husband through work. Same company, different continents…we dated, if you can call it that considering the huge distance and vast ocean between us, for two years before marrying.