Help Me Counter Argue Anti-Catholic allegation

[MrZetterlund]

These are aguments I’ve recieved from a couple of Youtubers I’ve been whipping the floor with up until now, as I must admit, my understanding of history is limited. Please help:

“You are a Bible church? You burned the Bible in the dark ages, you burned people who had Bibles, you wouldn’t allow the bible to be translated in any other language but Latin, you wouldn’t preach in any other langue but Latin so that people wouldn’t understand it, and you call this church a Bible church. You have idols you took out the second commandment; you change the Sabbath day and even a ddmit boldly that you did. All these things Christ said the antichrist would do.”

“in1280 vatican false church woes banned that ordinery man have copy of HOLY BIBLE and dark age woes begining with burning of TRUE CHRISTIANS who did not want to participate in Babylonians pagans rituals that members of catholic churche participate gladly to pray and praise Mary and dead saints or to pray with rosary is paganism abomination in GOD HOLY EYES and is ANTIBIBLICAL official number of vatican masonic church for killing in europe is more than 80 milion people
name Viccarius Fillia Dei have number of 666 in GREEK-HEBREW and it belong to Vatican pope Church that is full of Sin and Iniquity Stone idols false teachers wolfs in sheep cloathings are direct guilty for spreading of IDOLWORSHIPING all over the world Brother Paul speaking after my departure/death will come people who will be wolfs in sheep cloathing and among you brothers will rise people who will distort teaching of LORD JESUS CHRIST and bring damnable heresy
HOLY BIBLE have 66BOOKS from Genesis to Revelation and no matter that in Revelation 22,18-19 is warning not to add to GOD HOLY WORD vatican Church woes add more than 10 books with false teaching Warning of LORD JESUS CHRIST in Revelation that CURSE and PLEAGUES await all people who add or take out FROM HOLY BIBLE and warning rev21,8 that all Idolworshipers will share lake of fire catholics all over the worlds worskhiping statues from stones with False Image of Mary.”

I’m providing this link to the first part of the argument, as I believe it is very encouraging and helpful to those dealing with similar issues. Bless you, CAF:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7990106#post7990106

 

[PiousTemplar]

Youtube is my main encounter with anti-catholics.

“You are a Bible church? You burned the Bible in the dark ages, you burned people who had Bibles, you wouldn’t allow the bible to be translated in any other language but Latin, you wouldn’t preach in any other langue but Latin so that people wouldn’t understand it, and you call this church a Bible church."

They are mis-informed, as usual. The Church burned heretical Bibles that were translated incorrectly without the Authorization of the Church. They held the Bible in Latin for so long because of it’s accuracy I’m presuming, however a better informed Catholic probably has a better answer. If you look at the Liturgy of the Mass, “you wouldn’t preach in any other langue but Latin so that people wouldn’t understand it” that is entirely incorrect. The scriptures were explained by the clergy in the homily, as the majority of the populance couldn’t read or write. It wasn’t so that ‘people couldn’t understand it’.

“in1280 vatican false church woes banned that ordinery man have copy of HOLY BIBLE and dark age woes begining with burning of TRUE CHRISTIANS who did not want to participate in Babylonians pagans rituals that members of catholic churche participate gladly to pray and praise Mary and dead saints or to pray with rosary is paganism abomination in GOD HOLY EYES and is ANTIBIBLICAL official number of vatican masonic church for killing in europe is more than 80 milion people”

Conspiracies, conspiracies, sigh. The Vatican didn’t exist in 1280. The Church would sometimes deny the right of commoners to read the Holy Scriptures if there was a chance of heresy being spread. This was to protect the faithful. Also, Evangelicals and Anti-Catholics like to entertain the theory that the Church is the carry on of ‘pagan rome’ and the ‘true church’ was hidden underground. There is not one SHRED of evidence to support this claim. It is simply un-christian. “official number of vatican masonic church for killing in europe is more than 80 milion people” Official? Correction: What their anti-catholic pastors have told them. That is more deaths than the Black Death! Modern historians have concluded that no more than 6,000 died from the Spanish Inquisition, and about a 20th of that from the Roman Inquisition. 80 million is a claim that makes you question the sanity of the writers argument.

"name Viccarius Fillia Dei have number of 666 in GREEK-HEBREW and it belong to Vatican pope Church that is full of Sin and Iniquity Stone idols false teachers wolfs in sheep cloathings are direct guilty for spreading of IDOLWORSHIPING all over the world "

“Vicarius Filii Dei” is not an official Papal title. Even if it was a Papal title, that wouldn’t be sufficient to associate the Pope with the number of the Beast, as, for example, the name of Ellen Gould White (Anti-Catholic founder of Seventh Day Adventist Church, which you can probably presume this guy is from) can also be similarly manipulated to get the same number. There is no evidence of any Papal Tiara having such inscription as ‘Viccarius Fillia Dei’.

"full of Sin and Iniquity Stone idols false teachers wolfs in sheep cloathings are direct guilty for spreading of IDOLWORSHIPING all over the world "

That is just garbage that shouldn’t be taken no notice of. If they actually understood Catholic teaching, they wouldn’t be spewing it in the first place.

"HOLY BIBLE have 66BOOKS from Genesis to Revelation and no matter that in Revelation 22,18-19 is warning not to add to GOD HOLY WORD vatican Church woes add more than 10 books with false teaching Warning of LORD JESUS CHRIST in Revelation that CURSE and PLEAGUES await all people who add or take out FROM HOLY BIBLE and warning rev21,8 that all Idolworshipers will share lake of fire catholics all over the worlds worskhiping statues from stones with False Image of Mary.”

Actually, if this silly mis-informed anti-catholic had any knowlege of the Bible, it was the Protestants that disobeyed revelation and removed books from the Bible, labelling them ‘uninspired’. So really, he should be the one awaiting ‘curses’ and ‘pleagues’ (Check the spelling ).

The rest is just rubbish, made up of false assumptions about Church Teaching. Other Catholics on this forum will probably have fun refuting this! God Bless.

 

[PiousTemplar]

Don’t try to argue with them. Trust me. They are so indoctrinated they will not budge.
The most they are doing is injuring the Christian faith. Others look at their comments and think all of us Christians are nuts! Don’t be worried that they are leading others astray, most people would think they are over the top! Just thumbs down their comments, flag for spam if necessary, and move on.

And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off even the dust of your feet, for a testimony against them. Luke 9:5

 

[MrZetterlund]

Well, thank you. I am aware of most of this. However, the fact that they broughtup the Spanish Inquisition makes things difficult, as I am still held accountable to give an explanation… I wish to continue debating. Even if everything I say does go in one ear and out the other, I hope it’ll still be useful to onlookers reading the debate. Even if they look insane and irrational, I can still make the Church look sane and rational. I provided a link to the first part of the argument. Perhaps you will be pleased with reading it.

 

[mdgspencer]

Perhaps you could ask them to prove that what they say if true? The accusations they provide are incredible fabrications, and anyone with knowledge of the history involved would immediately dismiss what they say.

 

[PiousTemplar]

Well, I suggest do not get into an argument unless you have a sound understanding of the Spanish Inquisition. There is alot more to it than you think. Good Luck!

 

[codeyrolley]

Instead of the term BS, it should be referred to as slogans. People are taught slogans all day, on TV, in church, at work, and school. Often enough they mirror and deflect many objective facts you might attempt to share. So, another approach might be to ask them things like, what do you mean by ‘that’, or what are your ‘sources’ of you information, and ‘where’ did you learn that. Don’t be surprised when you get links to other threads that link to a writer’s book that cites someone else as a Dr. on any given subject that don’t really have any doctorates. This can work with any matter, not just the anti-Catholic arguments.

 

[SunnaB16]

Bible-reading in the vernacular was forbidden in southern France in the early part of the 13th Century, because of the Albigensian heresy. It didn`t happen anywhere else.

Who do they think preserved the Bible for all of the centuries before the “Reformation”. If the “Roman Catholic Institution” hates the Bible as much as her enemies claim, why didn`t she destroy it (the New Testament: the Jews would have continued to preserve the Old Testament)? She had plenty of time to do it.
These anti-Catholics lack common sense and logic.

Are these folks Seventh Day Adventists?
Their view of Church history is largely fantasy: “Any enemy of Roman Catholicism must be my friend, regardless of his own beliefs.”.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Perhaps you could ask them to prove that what they say if true? The accusations they provide are incredible fabrications, and anyone with knowledge of the history involved would immediately dismiss what they say.

Indeed, they are loosly strung fabrications. I don’t want to seem like a coward trying to evade an accusation. If fabrications so loosly strung do have a thread of truth, then the fabrication looks all the more menessing. I prefer to offer a more rational explanation and then invite them to give an alternative explanation or to question. That way the fabrication shrinks in the wash…

Well, I suggest do not get into an argument unless you have a sound understanding of the Spanish Inquisition. There is alot more to it than you think. Good Luck!

Unfortunately, I don’t. But then again, neither does my opponent! Which probably isn’t good. Lol, but it’s not all that is at hand…

Instead (Edited) it should be referred to as slogans. People are taught slogans all day, on TV, in church, at work, and school. Often enough they mirror and deflect many objective facts you might attempt to share. So, another approach might be to ask them things like, what do you mean by ‘that’, or what are your ‘sources’ of you information, and ‘where’ did you learn that. Don’t be surprised when you get links to other threads that link to a writer’s book that cites someone else as a Dr. on any given subject that don’t really have any doctorates. This can work with any matter, not just the anti-Catholic arguments.

I find sometimes you don’t even have to ask. I’ve found loads of sites full of mindless ramble and refutable garbage just by googling what he spews out… So far Obama, Osama, Benedict the 16th, George Bush, President Nixon and Henry Ford are all the antichrist.

 

[MrZetterlund]

Bible-reading in the vernacular was forbidden in southern France in the early part of the 13th Century, because of the Albigensian heresy. It didn`t happen anywhere else.

Are these folks Seventh Day Adventists?
Their view of Church history is largely fantasy: “Any enemy of Roman Catholicism must be my friend, regardless of his own beliefs.”.

I believe the commentor who’s post is actually legible is a Seventh Day Adventist. As for the other, he could be a Youtube junkie on crack for all I know… He sounds like a fanatic and I can tell psychologically he has a self-justification mindset. A Roosevelt-reasoning sort of thing…

 

[MrZetterlund]

Instead of the term BS, it should be referred to as slogans. People are taught slogans all day, on TV, in church, at work, and school. Often enough they mirror and deflect many objective facts you might attempt to share. So, another approach might be to ask them things like, what do you mean by ‘that’, or what are your ‘sources’ of you information, and ‘where’ did you learn that. Don’t be surprised when you get links to other threads that link to a writer’s book that cites someone else as a Dr. on any given subject that don’t really have any doctorates. This can work with any matter, not just the anti-Catholic arguments.

Lol. The moderators just changed it to “allegations” for improper language. -_- Gotta be careful on these Christian sites, man…

 

[DianaCC]

“in1280 vatican false church woes banned that ordinery man have copy of HOLY BIBLE and dark age woes begining with burning of TRUE CHRISTIANS

…et cetera and so forth.

I think the best response to this semi-illiterate rant would be the succinct put-down made famous by the internet:

[sign]ur gay[/sign]

…and just leave it at that.

 

[Edmundus1581]

… **official **number of vatican masonic church for killing in europe is more than 80 milion people…

Love it! That’s the highest bid I’ve ever heard… previous highest was 60 million…

Seriously, there’s a pattern to most of these claims. They arise from anti-Catholic writings between the 16th and 19th century where Protestant authors promoted themselves by inventing “facts” against the Catholic Church and then, once the “facts” got into circulation they would be passed on and embellished, because ordinary people didn’t have the means to check them (eg. 10 million… 20 million… 60 million… 80 million…). If you google any of them you will find there’s a circle of various anti-Catholic sites with the same “fact”, and the circle leads back to a pre-20th century book. The circle never leads to a credible historian or encyclopaedia. Though they like to say “reputed historian so-and-so”, so-and-so has no reputation in academic history.

See The Black Legend[Wikipedia]

To be fair, it’s not just anti-Catholics who do this. You will find the same pattern with many fringe theories, even in Catholicism - ie. a circle of publications and sites which cite each other, and unattributed “facts” which don’t stand independent scrutiny.

 

[roads152]

The first translation of the whole Bible into a single language was commissioned by Pope Damasus I. It was St. Jerome who did it. It was done in Latin because in those days, Latin was the language that the ordinary people speak, write and read. The Pope was then thinking about giving the Bible in the most understood manner. This happened in the fourth century, more than a thousand years before the first protestants were ever conceived.
How can any sect founded in the sixteenth century or later validly accuse the Catholic Church of violating the Book of Revelation, particularly, the portion prohibiting adding nor subtracting from the Bible?

 

[ESMDHokie77]

Youtube is my main encounter with anti-catholics.

I know there should be a defense of the faith on youtube, but it’s a terrible format for dialogue. And I feel like it could get flooded more quickly with all sorts of other comments. God bless y’all for going there.

 

[TimothyH]

These are aguments I’ve recieved from a couple of Youtubers I’ve been whipping the floor with up until now

Quite frankly Mr. Zetterlund, I stopped reading right there.

I wish to address my comments to you in a spirit of charity and goodwill and so I will say what I have to say and will not comment further. I hope you will prayerfully consider.

Other chidren of God and Mary are not people we are to wipe up the floor with nor is the goal of apologetics to defeat someone through rhetoric or to win arguments. I won’t render assistance to an apologist who’s goal it is to “Wipe up the floor” with other Christians. If that’s what other people want to do, then I hope God blesses them for their effort but I won’t do it. If your goal is to win arguments, then you have alreaady lost the debate.

Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, (1 Peter 3:15-16)

Why does the search for the truth have to be a war in which we wipe up the floor with opponents? Why does everything have to be combat? I see Catholic apologetics as a fertile field, in which we plant seeds of truth and then let God do the rest. And quite frankly, I’m not above learning something useful from a non-Catholic.

-Tim-

 

[GraceSofia]

name Viccarius Fillia Dei have number of 666 in GREEK-HEBREW and it belong to Vatican pope Church that is full of Sin and Iniquity

This has been answered, but I hope nobody minds if I add a bit. This is just such a funny one.

The pope’s real title is Vicarius Christi which does not add up to 666, so they had to invent the other title.

Martin Luther’s name when written in Latin also adds up to 666. As do a jazillion other names.

BUT the last book of the Bible was written in Greek, not Latin, anyway.

I got this from Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating.

Mr. Zetterlund,
I think you would love this book if you are interested in being able to refute anti-Catholic wild accusations. He presents all the arguments, and the history of them (fascinating) as well as the rebuttals. I highly recommend this book.

You also might like Seven Lies About Catholic History. It deals with the main lies that you hear over and over.

 

[DianaCC]

The first translation of the whole Bible into a single language was commissioned by Pope Damasus I…

Careful. There were translations of the whole before Jerome.

 

[Nicea325]

name Viccarius Fillia Dei have number of 666 in GREEK-HEBREW and it belong to Vatican pope Church that is full of Sin and Iniquity Stone idols false teachers wolfs in sheep cloathings are direct guilty for spreading of IDOLWORSHIPING all over the world

If I am correct, how does one get 666 from LATIN: Viccarius Fillia Dei when the NT was written in Greek?

 

[FCEGM]

I believe the commentor who’s post is actually legible is a Seventh Day Adventist. As for the other, he could be a Youtube junkie on crack for all I know… He sounds like a fanatic and I can tell psychologically he has a self-justification mindset. A Roosevelt-reasoning sort of thing…

MrZ, the Catholic Answers online shop offers a series of booklets entitled “Beginning Apologetics”; I believe it’s in volume one where the typical accusations of the Seventh-Day Adventists are addressed. You might want to consider adding this to your library for handy reference.