Help Me Counter Argue Anti-Catholic allegation

[DianaCC]

If I am correct, how does one get 666 from LATIN: Viccarius Fillia Dei when the NT was written in Greek?

Well … here’s a math problem from my homeschool middle school math curriculum for 8th grade: “Using your knowledge of Roman numerals, find the numerical value of the following phrase: ***VICARIVS FILII DEI ***(if a letter is not used in the Roman numeral system, count its value as zero).” The correct answer is 5 + 1 + 100 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 5 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 50 + 1 + 1 + 500 + 0 + 1 = 666. This problem in math comes up at the same time Beginning Apologetics comes up in religion and provides a nice link across subjects.

By the way, “Viccarius Filia Dei” [sic] actually means Vicar from the Daughter of God, and is an obvious error. In a case like this, a debater can always make the rhetorical move of correcting and strengthening his opponent’s argument, a move designed to harm the opponent’s credibility. But in practice, if the opponent is already so careless as to get the *false *title wrong…

 

[MrZetterlund]

Quite frankly Mr. Zetterlund, I stopped reading right there.

I wish to address my comments to you in a spirit of charity and goodwill and so I will say what I have to say and will not comment further. I hope you will prayerfully consider.

Other chidren of God and Mary are not people we are to wipe up the floor with nor is the goal of apologetics to defeat someone through rhetoric or to win arguments. I won’t render assistance to an apologist who’s goal it is to “Wipe up the floor” with other Christians. If that’s what other people want to do, then I hope God blesses them for their effort but I won’t do it. If your goal is to win arguments, then you have alreaady lost the debate.

Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, (1 Peter 3:15-16)

Why does the search for the truth have to be a war in which we wipe up the floor with opponents? Why does everything have to be combat? I see Catholic apologetics as a fertile field, in which we plant seeds of truth and then let God do the rest. And quite frankly, I’m not above learning something useful from a non-Catholic.

-Tim-

Tim, I am aware my manner and tone weren’t quite charitable in the beginning of this thread. However, I have been arguing within the lines of 1 Peter 3:15-16 with my oponents. I give great example of this in the link I provided at the end of my OP, as I thought it would be encouraging to other CAF members… I used the phrase “whipe the floor with” to express my on-going victory in these debates USING CHARITY OF COURSE. To me, a victory without charity is no victory at all… Not only that, but I was impatient in writing this thread to begin with, which is why I spoke carelessly. And honestely, I feel comfortable speaking carlessely among my brothers and sisters here so long as I adress the importance and underlining principle of my point, which includes charity. It’s ashame you didn’t check out my link or you would have realized that… You’re a sheep amongst wolves, brother. It’s best you get used to scanning the flock thoroughly so you don’t throw out the wrong sheep based off of refusal to investigate…

Peace and blessings be with you always, Jared Z.

This has been answered, but I hope nobody minds if I add a bit. This is just such a funny one.

The pope’s real title is Vicarius Christi which does not add up to 666, so they had to invent the other title.

Martin Luther’s name when written in Latin also adds up to 666. As do a jazillion other names.

BUT the last book of the Bible was written in Greek, not Latin, anyway.

I got this from Catholicism and Fundamentalism, by Karl Keating.

Mr. Zetterlund,
I think you would love this book if you are interested in being able to refute anti-Catholic wild accusations. He presents all the arguments, and the history of them (fascinating) as well as the rebuttals. I highly recommend this book.

You also might like Seven Lies About Catholic History. It deals with the main lies that you hear over and over.

Interestingly enough, both books are on my wishlist on amazon.com. Thank you for your contributions…

MrZ, the Catholic Answers online shop offers a series of booklets entitled “Beginning Apologetics”; I believe it’s in volume one where the typical accusations of the Seventh-Day Adventists are addressed. You might want to consider adding this to your library for handy reference.

That is in my wishlist as well. Thank you.

Well … here’s a math problem from my homeschool middle school math curriculum for 8th grade: “Using your knowledge of Roman numerals, find the numerical value of the following phrase: ***VICARIVS FILII DEI ***(if a letter is not used in the Roman numeral system, count its value as zero).” The correct answer is 5 + 1 + 100 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 5 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 50 + 1 + 1 + 500 + 0 + 1 = 666. This problem in math comes up at the same time Beginning Apologetics comes up in religion and provides a nice link across subjects.

By the way, “Viccarius Filia Dei” [sic] actually means Vicar from the Daughter of God, and is an obvious error. In a case like this, a debater can always make the rhetorical move of correcting and strengthening his opponent’s argument, a move designed to harm the opponent’s credibility. But in practice, if the opponent is already so careless as to get the *false *title wrong…

I thought as much. How do you know that it means “daughter,” though?

 

[PiousTemplar]

Well … here’s a math problem from my homeschool middle school math curriculum for 8th grade: “Using your knowledge of Roman numerals, find the numerical value of the following phrase: ***VICARIVS FILII DEI ***(if a letter is not used in the Roman numeral system, count its value as zero).” The correct answer is 5 + 1 + 100 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 5 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 50 + 1 + 1 + 500 + 0 + 1 = 666. This problem in math comes up at the same time Beginning Apologetics comes up in religion and provides a nice link across subjects.

By the way, “Viccarius Filia Dei” [sic] actually means Vicar from the Daughter of God, and is an obvious error. In a case like this, a debater can always make the rhetorical move of correcting and strengthening his opponent’s argument, a move designed to harm the opponent’s credibility. But in practice, if the opponent is already so careless as to get the *false *title wrong…

I dont get it! How do you know V stands for 5 or D stands for 500?

 

[DianaCC]

I dont get it! How do you know V stands for 5 or D stands for 500?

Well … I guess you can look it up. MDCCLXXVI is 1776, like on the pyramid on the back of a US dollar bill. Sometimes you see Roman numerals on clocks too.

 

[Big_Dummy]

sda2rc.blogspot.com/

sounds like you are dealing with a seventh day adventist. The crown thing is a myth.

Ask them if they would have any trouble throwing away a copy of the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses if they found one laying in a laundry matt for people to take? If they are honest, they would have no problem throwing it away.

 

[roads152]

That’ s interesting, DianaCC. I hope you don’t mean the Septuaginta because it was a translation of the Old Testament without the New Testament. The latter testament did not exist yet when the translators into Greek did their job.

 

[DianaCC]

I had in mind translations into Syriac and Gothic.

 

[DianaCC]

I thought as much. How do you know that it means “daughter,” though?

Just from knowing Latin.

 

[roads152]

That’s really interesting, DianaCC. Were the Syriac and Gothic translations for the whole Bible? How did you come to know of them?

 

[DianaCC]

That’s really interesting, DianaCC. Were the Syriac and Gothic translations for the whole Bible? How did you come to know of them?

The Syriac is of the whole Bible, but the Gothic was either never finished or parts of it were lost. I learned of them through the standard sources such as Bruce Metzger.

 

[Linda_Marie]

The Truth About the Spanish Inquisition
THOMAS F. MADDEN

 

[johnbres2]

Well, thank you. I am aware of most of this. However, the fact that they broughtup the Spanish Inquisition makes things difficult, as I am still held accountable to give an explanation… I wish to continue debating. Even if everything I say does go in one ear and out the other, I hope it’ll still be useful to onlookers reading the debate. Even if they look insane and irrational, I can still make the Church look sane and rational. I provided a link to the first part of the argument. Perhaps you will be pleased with reading it.

Read Archbishop Gibbons classic work ‘The Faith of Our Fathers", which has a chapter about the Spanish Inquisition, showing that it was conducted without any authoriization (or perhaps even knowledge) of the Church. Gibbons also points out that every church has abused power when it has been put in position to do so. This does not excuse it–but every church has on occasion been subject to grievous harm by its own members’ human failings.

 

[Linda_Marie]

The home page of the link I provided is called The Church in History. It covers a lot more than just the Inquisition so you might find it helpful in future discussions. BTW, Thomas Madden is Professor of History and Director of the Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies at Saint Louis University. He is a very reputable historian.

 

[roads152]

Thanks for the information, DianaCC.

 

[GraceSofia]

The home page of the link I provided is called The Church in History.

Great site! Thanks for the link.