Help me respond to a peculiar Protestant quote

[DeSanto]

Recently I’ve ventured into the CARM forums, seeking to gain experience in my apologetic skills. I have entered into a most ridiculous debate with one wanting to disparage the
Church for our ecumenical approach towards Muslims. I understand there are mixed feelings about CCC paragraph 841, the infamous “Quran kiss” by JPII, and the recent Good Friday service, even among ourselves.

Well, let me just show you a couple snipits of quotes from the conversation. Pay close attention to the last quote. I would like to bring this debate to a swift end and just lay it down for him. Can anyone help me with a quick, to the point response that really just gets down to the brass tax?

This guy is wondering why the ccc pg.841 is so vague in teaching the Muslims the truth about the Gospel. I suppose he would rather we would have gave them a good thrashing for their beliefs.

Him:

So the Roman Catholic Church did not want to offend the Muslims because they are afraid of them? The Great Commission is to preach the gospel to every creature; to the Jew first. But the Pope obviously has no regard for what the Lord Jesus says.

Me:

It is not out of fear, rather it is out of wisdom. It is not wise to purposefully offend and it would be irresponsible of us to intentionally provoke or insight violence.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Him:

You cannot love the Muslims into heaven

Me:

The Lord says to love your enemies, so tell Him you cannot do it, not me. He didn’t say love your enemies “into heaven”, just simply, love your enemies. Converting people is God’s deal, we are just called to be His witness.

We keep going back and forth. I speak of actions speaking louder than words, being peacemakers, humbling ourselves, loving one another as ourselves, putting down our swords, basically making it plain that showing people the Love of Christ in ourselves is what we are commissioned to do. That only love can conquer. Then he goes on quoting verses on how Jesus did not come to bring peace to the world but a sword, Muslims are gentiles that sacrifice to devils, how can two walk together, except they be agreed, blasting Pope Francis for calling them “brothers and sisters”, ect. ect. Then we get to this quote…

Him:

It is the Gospel that saves not your love, Christ’s love for lost mankind!

WOW! That’s a bold statement. Is he saying the Gospel saves, not Christ Love? Or is he saying, Christ’s Love is not in me? I mean, I want to give a really good response to this guy and end this conversation once and for all. Can anyone help me with this?

 

[Loving_disciple]

Recently I’ve ventured into the CARM forums, seeking to gain experience in my apologetic skills. I have entered into a most ridiculous debate with one wanting to disparage the
Church for our ecumenical approach towards Muslims. I understand there are mixed feelings about CCC paragraph 841, the infamous “Quran kiss” by JPII, and the recent Good Friday service, even among ourselves.

Well, let me just show you a couple snipits of quotes from the conversation. Pay close attention to the last quote. I would like to bring this debate to a swift end and just lay it down for him. Can anyone help me with a quick, to the point response that really just gets down to the brass tax?

This guy is wondering why the ccc pg.841 is so vague in teaching the Muslims the truth about the Gospel. I suppose he would rather we would have gave them a good thrashing for their beliefs.

Him:

Me:

Him:

Me:

We keep going back and forth. I speak of actions speaking louder than words, being peacemakers, humbling ourselves, loving one another as ourselves, putting down our swords, basically making it plain that showing people the Love of Christ in ourselves is what we are commissioned to do. That only love can conquer. Then he goes on quoting verses on how Jesus did not come to bring peace to the world but a sword, Muslims are gentiles that sacrifice to devils, how can two walk together, except they be agreed, blasting Pope Francis for calling them “brothers and sisters”, ect. ect. Then we get to this quote…

Him:

WOW! That’s a bold statement. Is he saying the Gospel saves, not Christ Love? Or is he saying, Christ’s Love is not in me? I mean, I want to give a really good response to this guy and end this conversation once and for all. Can anyone help me with this?

He is say the gospel saves not Jesus. Are if you where a lawyer that is how you would read it. The Church is following of Jesus commandments. We are supposed to preach to Muslim but in a loving way. Acting out of negative feeling only leads to conflict. Though conflict can’t always be avoided

 

[aemcpa]

I mean, I want to give a really good response to this guy and end this conversation once and for all. Can anyone help me with this?

You can’t win a debate against CARM. No matter what you say, you’ll never be right because you’re Catholic. The only way to end it is to walk away.

 

[mia2klm]

I would agree no matter what you say, he is going to keep on arguing.
The only other thought I would add is to advise him that people are not driven to faith, but led by example. That is why we are taught to love one another, so that by example, others will want to follow our faith and be led to Jesus. In that sense, we DO help to love people into heaven, but of course only by the grace of our Lord. I hope that helps a little.

 

[DeSanto]

Thanks! So far, I have just not responded. That’s basically the feeling I get from CARM, “never agree with a catholic, even if their right”. It’s like their mantra. I’ll just ponder it for a while, if the Holy Spirit wishes me to respond, He’ll give me the words. Thanks again.

 

[Dorothy]

Thanks! So far, I have just not responded. That’s basically the feeling I get from CARM, “never agree with a catholic, even if their right”. It’s like their mantra. I’ll just ponder it for a while, if the Holy Spirit wishes me to respond, He’ll give me the words. Thanks again.

The love we give comes from our Lord Jesus Christ!

Anyway, I do agree with the others who say that on Carm it seems the debate is never reasonable. In that case it is best to make any last statement you believe the Holy Spirit wants you to make, and then kick the dust from your feet and move on.

 

[Semangelof]

You can’t win a debate against CARM. No matter what you say, you’ll never be right because you’re Catholic. The only way to end it is to walk away.

I peaked over at CARM, and checked it the Catholic section. It’s hard to believe these guys call themselves Christians. They certainly don’t behave like Christians, or adults for that matter. It was kind of like watching a person stabbing himself and claiming he’s winning the fight. You have my sympathies. It’s inexcusable whats going on there.

I like the premise of those forums but wow, the people. Maybe the Private Debates will be interesting.

 

[MPat]

This guy is wondering why the ccc pg.841 is so vague in teaching the Muslims the truth about the Gospel. I suppose he would rather we would have gave them a good thrashing for their beliefs.

Well, if you are going to answer, you could ask for some statistics. For example, how many Muslims have been converted using their approach…? After all, a claim that one method is more effective at converting Muslims than another can be investigated statistically (at least in principle)…

 

[Eleve]

some guy:

It is the Gospel that saves not your love, Christ’s love for lost mankind!

Seems to me you had a good answer already. Jesus taught us to love our enemies. He did not teach us to love our enemies unless we think it isn’t a good strategy for evangelism in which case we should become aggressive, rude, and insufferable… he taught us to love them. If the person you’re talking to finds that objectionable, he finds the Gospel objectionable.

 

[DeSanto]

I peaked over at CARM, and checked it the Catholic section. It’s hard to believe these guys call themselves Christians. They certainly don’t behave like Christians, or adults for that matter. It was kind of like watching a person stabbing himself and claiming he’s winning the fight. You have my sympathies. It’s inexcusable whats going on there.

I like the premise of those forums but wow, the people. Maybe the Private Debates will be interesting.

Lol, I like that analogy. Yes, it is quite a different world than here at CAF. You have to be careful not to jump in with both feet, you migh get sucked in.

 

[DeSanto]

Seems to me you had a good answer already. Jesus taught us to love our enemies. He did not teach us to love our enemies unless we think it isn’t a good strategy for evangelism in which case we should become aggressive, rude, and insufferable… he taught us to love them. If the person you’re talking to finds that objectionable, he finds the Gospel objectionable.

Like it!

 

[DeSanto]

Well, if you are going to answer, you could ask for some statistics. For example, how many Muslims have been converted using their approach…? After all, a claim that one method is more effective at converting Muslims than another can be investigated statistically (at least in principle)…

Like it!