R
rinnie
Guest
Keep praying, attending mass, and let God help you work through this in his own time. God has a way of opening doors that you could not imagine.
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W
wmscott
Guest
Lots of good advice here, and by the way welcome to CAF. As to the marriage issue, because the Catholic Church takes the sacrament of marriage so seriously each Diocese has a marriage tribunal. Only you know your specific situation and it would be good to discuss this with the Priest to get the entire scoop on what will work in your situation.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Allison,
You are home…and for now, study what spiritual communion is. Go before the Blessed Sacrament, where Jesus remains among us, and ask Him to give you the grace of spiritual communion, and ‘lights’ to inspire you in your marriage situation.
Sin is when one knows what is right or wrong and then deliberately chooses sin.
You do not appear to be in that.
You are home…and for now, study what spiritual communion is. Go before the Blessed Sacrament, where Jesus remains among us, and ask Him to give you the grace of spiritual communion, and ‘lights’ to inspire you in your marriage situation.
Sin is when one knows what is right or wrong and then deliberately chooses sin.
You do not appear to be in that.
A
alison37
Guest
Just a follow-up post to thank each and every one of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut on my situation. I appreciate the patience and kindness that you have all shown me. I will, gratefully, take your advice and continue to spend time in the Church, learning what I can from example and from study and will trust the Holy Spirit to lead me in the future. I know that God will continue to show me more and more of Himself and I am open to having my mind changed regarding my marriage situation.
Also, I wanted to assure you all that I don’t think that Catholics are more judgmental or harsh than others when it comes to the practice of their religion. I understand the theology behind the restrictions on participation in the Eucharist and as I said in my OP, I respect and honor that, nor to I have any desire to challenge it. My OP was prompted because after I figured out my situation, I emailed the RCIA director who had counseled me in the first place and, a week later, I haven’t heard anything back from her. I started to get concerned that the assurances that she had originally given me regarding my exploration of the Church were no longer true in light of what I had revealed about my marital situation. Thank you for alleviating some of my fear.
Joyfully anticipating the beginning of Advent in my new “home”:yup:
Also, I wanted to assure you all that I don’t think that Catholics are more judgmental or harsh than others when it comes to the practice of their religion. I understand the theology behind the restrictions on participation in the Eucharist and as I said in my OP, I respect and honor that, nor to I have any desire to challenge it. My OP was prompted because after I figured out my situation, I emailed the RCIA director who had counseled me in the first place and, a week later, I haven’t heard anything back from her. I started to get concerned that the assurances that she had originally given me regarding my exploration of the Church were no longer true in light of what I had revealed about my marital situation. Thank you for alleviating some of my fear.
Joyfully anticipating the beginning of Advent in my new “home”:yup:
M
manualman
Guest
Shucks, I consider it an awesome blessing when I see people attend mass, but not go to communion. It’s a witness to the sacredness of the Real Presence and a reminder to us all that we must not take it for granted. Far from offending, you will be a blessing to catholics in the pews everywhere.
All that said, I wonder if an analogy is in order. When one suffers a badly broken bone, and it is never set properly, it can heal in a terribly deformed manner. If after a few years, a the person finally sees a doctor, it can require re-breaking that bone in order to heal it fully! A failed attempt at marriage can be like this. No doubt that it would be frightening and painful to re-open an old wound. But what if the end result was a true and final healing that allowed you to utterly leave that pain behind rather than limp along with a constant reminder of it? Food for thought…
And welcome!
All that said, I wonder if an analogy is in order. When one suffers a badly broken bone, and it is never set properly, it can heal in a terribly deformed manner. If after a few years, a the person finally sees a doctor, it can require re-breaking that bone in order to heal it fully! A failed attempt at marriage can be like this. No doubt that it would be frightening and painful to re-open an old wound. But what if the end result was a true and final healing that allowed you to utterly leave that pain behind rather than limp along with a constant reminder of it? Food for thought…
And welcome!
J
JRKH
Guest
Alison -
If I may share -
I spent a long time figuring that I could not apply for an annulment (that if I did it would be denied). It was only after my cousin received an annulment that her father (my Godfather) wrote me and encouraged me to go ahead and try. Still I prayed on the matter for some time, though I did have an initial meeting with a deacon and got the paperwork…
Anyway - long story short, God finally gave me a sign to go ahead and lo and behold it was granted.
I tell you this as encouragement to take the “little steps” - speak with someone knowledgeable on these matters, learn the process, get the questionnaire and continue to pray for guidance.
I pray that God will give you too a sign, and encouragement to proceed so that you and your dear husband will be able to partake fully of the sacraments.
Peace
James
If I may share -
I spent a long time figuring that I could not apply for an annulment (that if I did it would be denied). It was only after my cousin received an annulment that her father (my Godfather) wrote me and encouraged me to go ahead and try. Still I prayed on the matter for some time, though I did have an initial meeting with a deacon and got the paperwork…
Anyway - long story short, God finally gave me a sign to go ahead and lo and behold it was granted.
I tell you this as encouragement to take the “little steps” - speak with someone knowledgeable on these matters, learn the process, get the questionnaire and continue to pray for guidance.
I pray that God will give you too a sign, and encouragement to proceed so that you and your dear husband will be able to partake fully of the sacraments.
Peace
James
C
Catholic1954
Guest
You will be welcome in any Catholic Church at any time.
P
Paul_Infirdigno
Guest
thats great alisson, be assured if that RCIA director has any true “Catholic sense” he/she will have encouraging comments not unlike ours. Have a happy Thanksgiving, and a wonderful Advent -don’t forget to get the Advent wreath ready and get the Jesse tree up
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H
Hmgbrd
Guest
Dear Alison37, I just wanted to encourage you to talk to your Priest. He is the one that can guide you best and give you real answers for your particular situation. Trust him. I am going through RCIA and hope to be joining the Church this year too. I have, like you, totally given myself to Him. This Journey is such an overwhelming experience. Words aren’t enough. Remember that everything that you are going through now and have gone through in the past is in preparation for what is to come! Stick with it. It is worth it! I will include in my prayers that we will enter the Church this year together!
G
grandfather
Guest
Alison,
Your post reminded me of an amusing story. A friend of mine who converted to Catholicism as an adult was raised Protestant in the south. As a girl she was curious about what went on in a Catholic church, sure that whatever it was it had to be very stange and mysterious, having no idea what the inside even looked like. One day she got up her courage to satisfy her curiosity and snuck (in her mind) into the local Catholic church to take a peek and look around. In her child’s imagination she was sure she would get caught in there where she was not supposed to go, being a Protestant. She thought surely that they had a “Protestant alarm” that would go off and they would catch her snooping around.
Your concern about offending people must come from a notion that you will stand out in some way and people will see you and realize you are different and not in the club.
There are no secret passwords or handshakes. People go to Mass to pray, not to scrutinize the people in the next pew. They might see you and think you are a new face and they do not know you, but they probably don’t know half the rest of the people there either. Catholics are just as nozy as anyone else, but they really don’t wonder about what others are doing in Church and probably won’t figure out you are not Catholic unless you tell them.
There is one sure way though that you will set off the Protestant alarm and your cover will be blown. If you come to Mass carrying a giant Bible the jig is up.
Your post reminded me of an amusing story. A friend of mine who converted to Catholicism as an adult was raised Protestant in the south. As a girl she was curious about what went on in a Catholic church, sure that whatever it was it had to be very stange and mysterious, having no idea what the inside even looked like. One day she got up her courage to satisfy her curiosity and snuck (in her mind) into the local Catholic church to take a peek and look around. In her child’s imagination she was sure she would get caught in there where she was not supposed to go, being a Protestant. She thought surely that they had a “Protestant alarm” that would go off and they would catch her snooping around.
Your concern about offending people must come from a notion that you will stand out in some way and people will see you and realize you are different and not in the club.
There are no secret passwords or handshakes. People go to Mass to pray, not to scrutinize the people in the next pew. They might see you and think you are a new face and they do not know you, but they probably don’t know half the rest of the people there either. Catholics are just as nozy as anyone else, but they really don’t wonder about what others are doing in Church and probably won’t figure out you are not Catholic unless you tell them.
There is one sure way though that you will set off the Protestant alarm and your cover will be blown. If you come to Mass carrying a giant Bible the jig is up.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Speak with a parish priest about your circumstances, he will be able to simplify the matters for you attending Mass etc.
If you are not validly baptized, you should refrain from professing the Credo before God in Mass. Simple things such as these can be explained by your parish priest.
You can begin the R.C.I.A program and finish it while your personal items of prior marriage and the like are being addressed, and get recieved into the Church at a later time after your personal circumstances are placed in order so as to recieve the full benefits of God’s graces. Your parish priest will be able to help and guide you here. The journey is not difficult, so long as you get the exact meaning and understanding of your situation from a priest so that you can respond to your circumstances without difficulty.
If one step is too difficult for you, Iam sure your parish priest can assist you along the way or get you some office assistance.
You should not delay coming into full communion with the body of Christ and begin the journey.
Going through R.C.I.A would help you understand many things going on througout the liturgical year in the Church so as not to be confused or mistakingly offend someone unintentially for example “how to behave in the household of God” during adoration.
Peace be with you and welcome home.
G
grandfather
Guest
Really! Why not?If you are not validly baptized, you should refrain from professing the Credo before God in Mass.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Because, if one professes the credo before God without knowing (understanding) or believing what is professed to be true, heaven holds them in contempt (lieing), especially if one is not validly baptized.
The Credo, the Our Father is given to those adults during Lent season from the Church preceeding their baptism sacrament of initiation. Then a profession is made by the catechumen and or the neophyte.
M
Matthew_Holford
Guest
Yes, of course you may. As you know you must not receive Holy Communion.
I’d be happy to see you in mine.
No!
No, I believe it may strengthen your resolve to be received in to the Catholic Church and to take the difficult path that will bring you home.
G
grandfather
Guest
Can you cite some Church doctrine or instruction that supports this statement? Sounds a bit like straining at gnats again. You are saying God holds people culpable for what they do not understand. Who told you this?
Do you really think that being baptized gives one some sort of pass for reciting a statement or prayer without understanding, or that all the baptized understand the crede.
Really, give this some thought before claiming with a tone of authority that people who are not baptized should not profess the faith they hold in their hearts, or pray the Lord’s prayer. Who told you this? Where does the Church teach this? What Vatican document? It sounds like it came from some over zealous RCIA director.
If a non-Catholic Christian not validly baptized, but sincerely believing the articles of the crede goes to Mass and follows the missal and recites the crede with the congregation without completely understanding its meaning, lightning and judgement surely will fall from heaven and strike them down.
Get a grip. Do you really think that going through RCIA programs run today gives some kind of depth of understanding and once the catechumen gets to week 8 or 10 they are ready to state what they already believe, but before that time of formal certification they are nitwits?
Good grief!
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Sure; there are too many to name here so I would recommend you see a “Compendium” of the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 33,35,45,168,259 will take you straight to the point you are asking for.
Then take your CCC and see paragraphs 185-189, 199-202, 167, 815 will help clear things up for you.
After viewing the Church’s teaching on the profession of faith during baptism, see the Vatican Council II 16 Documents chapt.VII THE PILGRIM CHURCH paragraph 51 expresses the importance of the profession of faith for all the faithful.
**No, the Church teaches the scripture below and makes sure by her rites that the profession is made in faith and truth.
Matthew 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. 37 By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”**
An infants baptism cannot be completed without the parents and god parents profession of faith for them, until they reach the age of discernment and renew their baptismal vows.
“FAITH” is called for here in the profession of faith see the documents listed above.
Maybe the Church is lapsed today in some societies due to lack of a real Catholic Catechesis. It would appear that you don’t understand the importance of baptism and faith professed before God in the form of a vow into the New Covenant in Jesus Blood during the Mass liturgy.
Secondly you should know that an Excorcism takes place during the baptism, but that’s another topic.
Many non-catholics and those holding to a protestant title may not baptize in the blessed Trinity. Some think because they were presented as infants that they recieved a valid baptism. I can go on and on giving examples to this diversity of “christian” belief’s. When adults are converting to the body of Christ, baptism needs to be validated or performed with a profession of faith.
Tell you what, go ask your Pastor or Bishop and hear it first hand for yourself.
They will “teach” you that an “unbaptised” person and those “adult” converts who baptism is in question must be investigated first to show validation before making the profession of faith, not to mention they must be catechised in the profession of faith.
It should be noted that some communions only need to make this profession of faith (Credo) in order to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.
The Church uses the word “Contempt” not lightning and judgement, that is the problem with yesterday’s catechisis. Taking one simple teaching from the Church and blowing it out of proportion to believe something other than the Church teaches.
Please don’t take my word for it, go ask your priest not your R.C.I.A director.
If death is not near, during the lenten season a catechumen recieves the “Credo” and the “Our Father” prayer because the Church was given them to give. If a convert validly baptised needs a priest to authenticate the baptism before professing the credo.
How did you conclude with “nitwits”? Be it R.C.I.A or just speaking with priest would remove all doubt and misunderstandings a convert may possess during the Mass throughout the liturgical year.
You should be informed that all “catechisis” instruction is authorized and approved by the bishop. What the R.C.I.A teaches follows the bishops instruction.
Peace be with you
G
grandfather
Guest
A
Angela77
Guest
I don’t think there’s any problem with you coming to Mass or doing other Catholic things. Just don’t take the Eucharist.
A
ATeutonicKnight
Guest
You’ve been given some great advice, but one Saint I would advise praying to is Saint Anthony of Padua. He is the Patron Saint of Marriages and lost items.
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
It appears that what you introduce is “cultural accepted tradition” and what I reveal here is a Catholic teaching since the Nicene Creed was formed for all the baptised (see Vatican II council document mentioned earlier).
The Church never questions a persons faith, the Church only reveals, teaches what Christ has revealed to her. The Catholic Church knows what it is like to be persecuted, threatened by death and tortured for her faith. She protects and seeks out the lost sheep.
Your addressing this issue under the pretense that anyone can come to Mass, lie hidden in ones own faith without coming to the full knowledge of the full deposit of Catholic faith, who may be holding to contradictory belief’s of the blessed Trinity and Jesus himself, and “swearing an oath before God” in the profession of faith, that in reality are not believing what the Creed reveals.
This is not to say one cannot come and sit in on a Mass. But for one who does not know about the mysteries including professing our baptismal vows before God with the profession of faith when one has never recieved baptism, should be informed of the Creed before “swearing an oath before God”, this is one reason Jesus gave us His Church to teach, feed and tend His flock.
It should be noted here that a person’s disposition does not disqualify him/her from entering Mass or viewing the mysteries. A non catholic can participate in the liturgy of the Word, because “faith” comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.
Every bishop approved R.C.I.A class that attends the liturgy of the Word, will notice how the catechumens are always removed from Mass before the recitation of the Creed and the liturgy of the Eucharist.
This practice of removing the unbaptised from the profession of faith in the liturgy of the Eucharist dates back to antiquity. And yet you are trying to change what the Catholic Church has practiced since the resurrection or reject it?
I will repeat again; An adult unbaptised person cannot recite the Creed in the Mass liturgy before God without first being taught, informed or given the creed from the Church. The point of Death may be one exception.
Now those who know know better by ignorance have recited the creed and also have taken the Eucharist unknowingly is a matter of mercy and forgiveness from the sacraments of reconciliation (baptism, confession) which prayerfully will come when the ignorant has recieved them later.
Although I find your argument secular and popular on the surface of secular individual freedoms which leads to the wide road of destruction. The Church’s stance on this matter is a narrow road which leads to eternal life.
I still recommend you ask your Pastor before rejecting what the Catholic Church has always practiced in evangelization.
One has to remember the Catholic church is universal world wide. Her disciplines may not reach other communities which have no need of them. But Her teachings are in every Catholic Church world wide professed, practiced and taught to every believer and cannot be changed.
Reveal to me One Catholic Church that allows unbaptised persons to make a profession of the Nicene Creed in Mass? And I will reveal to you a Church indifferent (heresy) to the Apostolic Traditions and Teachings in the Catholic Church.
In weddings, baptismal example, the priest will always inform the attendee before the profession of faith which introduces the liturgy of the Eucharist not to participate if they are not baptized validly, or not practicing catholics or what ever reasons the priest deems fit to explain to his community in attendance. Never the less the Church gives a warning to all in attendance.
Peace be with you
- Status