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Jdp90d
Guest
If I am misunderstanding please correct me. But why do Catholics pray to Mary, to get to Jesus? Once again I don’t say this with any disrespect I am trying to understand.
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spiderweb
Guest
This may be a little oversimplification, but Catholics do not pray to Mary to get to Jesus. We pray to Mary to add her prayers to our own, to Jesus. It is like asking a friend here on earth to pray for you, they add their prayers to your own.
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
The word pray means to “ask”. We simply ask Mary to pray for us. We figure that she is in heaven with Jesus, standing right there before the throne, so just as you might ask me to pray for you, you can also ask Mary to pray for you.
A
adf417
Guest
Prayer is not necessarly worship, it can be worship but not necessarly. As someone already said prayer is, in its root form, communication with another. We do talk to God in prayer without worshiping Him when ask for supplications, thanksgiving, and contrition. All these forms of prayer are not necessarly what we call worship. Worship is the adoration due only to God and nothing else and this worship comes in spirit form see Jn 4:24.
We pray (talk) to Mary, and all the saints, because they are as much alive as we are. They are our “cloud of witnesses” Heb 12:1 that help us just like a friend of ours may pray for us here on earth. If a good friends prayers are good for you how much more will the prayers of the saints be?
Many Protestants don’t understand this concept but I am reminded of the very Protestant movie “The War Room” that came out a couple years ago. In the movie the main woman character stands up very confidently and proudly and speakes in a rebuking manner to satan. I wondered why do Protestants understand the concept of talking to satan in a non-worship maner but not the saints.
Peace!!!
We pray (talk) to Mary, and all the saints, because they are as much alive as we are. They are our “cloud of witnesses” Heb 12:1 that help us just like a friend of ours may pray for us here on earth. If a good friends prayers are good for you how much more will the prayers of the saints be?
Many Protestants don’t understand this concept but I am reminded of the very Protestant movie “The War Room” that came out a couple years ago. In the movie the main woman character stands up very confidently and proudly and speakes in a rebuking manner to satan. I wondered why do Protestants understand the concept of talking to satan in a non-worship maner but not the saints.
Peace!!!
T
Todd_Easton
Guest
It is a form of Christian intercession. Prayerfully asking a Christian saint in heaven, such as the Virgin Mary, to prayer for you is really not much different from what St Paul did when he wrote letters to Christians in distant cities asking them to pray for him (as in Colossians 4:3; 1 Thessalonians 5:25; 2 Thessalonians 3:1; Hebrews 13:18), if you think of prayerfully asking saints in heaven as sending “spiritual letters” to Christians in the heavenly Jerusalem and asking them to prayer for you.
M
MT1926
Guest
Prayer to the saints is a Biblical teaching. It’s just not taught in one verse. (Which means this will probably take 2 posts to cover)
First let’s start by defining that to pray means to ask. Sure we can worship God while we pray and with our prayers. However, I am sure you would agree when we pray to God for help say on a test we are just asking for help, we aren’t worshiping Him with our test. So when we pray to the saints or Mary we are asking them to pray with us to God.
The Bible commands us to pray for one another, here’s 2 of many…
1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Why does Jesus want us to pray for one another? Because scripture shows us that He will answer a weaker persons prayers based on the stronger person who is praying for them…
Matthew 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; be it done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.
Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
We also know that God will more readily answer the prayers of the righteous.
James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
I am sure you would agree, with Hebrews, that once we get to heaven we will be far more righteous than we are right now?
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly[a] of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Now is where many object saying the saints are dead and can’t hear us.
TO BE CONTINUED…
First let’s start by defining that to pray means to ask. Sure we can worship God while we pray and with our prayers. However, I am sure you would agree when we pray to God for help say on a test we are just asking for help, we aren’t worshiping Him with our test. So when we pray to the saints or Mary we are asking them to pray with us to God.
The Bible commands us to pray for one another, here’s 2 of many…
1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Why does Jesus want us to pray for one another? Because scripture shows us that He will answer a weaker persons prayers based on the stronger person who is praying for them…
Matthew 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; be it done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.
Matthew 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.
We also know that God will more readily answer the prayers of the righteous.
James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.
I am sure you would agree, with Hebrews, that once we get to heaven we will be far more righteous than we are right now?
Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly[a] of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Now is where many object saying the saints are dead and can’t hear us.
TO BE CONTINUED…
M
MT1926
Guest
The Bible says that all Christians are members of one Body…
1 Corinthians 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
St. Paul further tells us members of the Body need one another…
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
**He goes on to tell us we are not allowed to say we have no need of another part of the body **
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
He teaches us how closely connected we are…
26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
Jesus told us…
Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. …so when we put these 2 verses together, we can conclude that when Christians suffer on earth the heavens suffer as well.
Finally, Paul tells us that even death does not separate us from being members of the Body of Christ…
Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In the book of Revelation we see the saints presenting our prayers to God.
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (the Saints in heaven) fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (on earth);
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
I hope this helps. I know it is a lengthy post, which I could have made even longer. But I wanted you to see that there is nothing wrong with including the saints and Mary in our prayers to God. Keep in mind, the Church doesn’t teach you have to pray to Mary and the Saints. We can and do go directly to God with our prayers. The whole teaching of praying to the saints is to include the body of Christ (living or dead) in our prayers to God.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask, it has been a joy speaking with a charitable/open minded Christian.
God Bless
1 Corinthians 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.
St. Paul further tells us members of the Body need one another…
17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
**He goes on to tell us we are not allowed to say we have no need of another part of the body **
21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you,” nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
He teaches us how closely connected we are…
26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
Jesus told us…
Luke 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance. …so when we put these 2 verses together, we can conclude that when Christians suffer on earth the heavens suffer as well.
Finally, Paul tells us that even death does not separate us from being members of the Body of Christ…
Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In the book of Revelation we see the saints presenting our prayers to God.
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (the Saints in heaven) fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints (on earth);
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
I hope this helps. I know it is a lengthy post, which I could have made even longer. But I wanted you to see that there is nothing wrong with including the saints and Mary in our prayers to God. Keep in mind, the Church doesn’t teach you have to pray to Mary and the Saints. We can and do go directly to God with our prayers. The whole teaching of praying to the saints is to include the body of Christ (living or dead) in our prayers to God.
If you have any other questions feel free to ask, it has been a joy speaking with a charitable/open minded Christian.
God Bless
P
PJM
Guest
Yours’s is a common concern, so permit me then to address it for you.
Were you aware that GOD Himself commanded Moses to build for Him Idols?
Exod.25: 18, 20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. [20] The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be
Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
So we CAN know that it is not the object, but the intended USE of that object that determines its merits
ANYTHING that can lead one closer to God is Good, anything that ACTUALLY competes with God is Evil
Full of Grace [Lk. 1:28]
The Lord is with thee [Lk 1:27]
Blessed are you among all women [Lk 1:42]
And Blessed in the fruit of your womb: Jesus [Lk. 1;42]
Holy Mary [Lk.1: 28]
Mother of God 1:35
Pray for us sinners [our catholic petition]
Now and at the hour of our death
Amen” [I BELIEVE!]
Romans 12: 2 “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Hope this helps you?
God Bless you!
Patrick
- Catholics believe that ALL prayers are to end with GOD
- Mary was GOD’S choice to be His MOTHER out of many BILLIONS of other choices [so to God She is VERY special]
Were you aware that GOD Himself commanded Moses to build for Him Idols?
Exod.25: 18, 20 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. [20] The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be
Num.21: 8-9 And the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.
So we CAN know that it is not the object, but the intended USE of that object that determines its merits
ANYTHING that can lead one closer to God is Good, anything that ACTUALLY competes with God is Evil
- By far the most common Marian Prayer is the Hail Mary which is biblically grounded
Full of Grace [Lk. 1:28]
The Lord is with thee [Lk 1:27]
Blessed are you among all women [Lk 1:42]
And Blessed in the fruit of your womb: Jesus [Lk. 1;42]
Holy Mary [Lk.1: 28]
Mother of God 1:35
Pray for us sinners [our catholic petition]
Now and at the hour of our death
Amen” [I BELIEVE!]
Romans 12: 2 “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
- Here is the direct reply to your OPQ
While it is grammatically correct to claim that we Do pray “TO” Mary; it is more true to understand that we are praying “THROUGH” Mary to Jesus.
WHY do we do this?
Hope this helps you?
God Bless you!
Patrick
Tis_Bearself
Patron
You do realize we pray to Jesus directly too? We don’t have to go through Mary. We choose to do that because she helps us.
Asking Mary and the saints to pray for us or to intercede with God for us is like having extra witnesses and lawyers on your side helping you plead your court case. If you went before a judge, would you rather go alone or take 5 witnesses and lawyers who’d all say you were a good person and ask the judge to please help you or go easy on you? What if one of the witnesses who was going to help you was the judge’s mom? Would you tell her, "No, don’t help me because I can just talk to the judge myself " or would you say, “If you could put in a good word for me with your son the judge, I’d sure appreciate that.”
As the Eurythmics sang, “The missionary man he’s got God on his side, he’s got the saints and apostles backing up from behind.” They have his back when he faces evil. Mary is the greatest of all Saints so she is the best backup you can have.
Asking Mary and the saints to pray for us or to intercede with God for us is like having extra witnesses and lawyers on your side helping you plead your court case. If you went before a judge, would you rather go alone or take 5 witnesses and lawyers who’d all say you were a good person and ask the judge to please help you or go easy on you? What if one of the witnesses who was going to help you was the judge’s mom? Would you tell her, "No, don’t help me because I can just talk to the judge myself " or would you say, “If you could put in a good word for me with your son the judge, I’d sure appreciate that.”
As the Eurythmics sang, “The missionary man he’s got God on his side, he’s got the saints and apostles backing up from behind.” They have his back when he faces evil. Mary is the greatest of all Saints so she is the best backup you can have.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I just happened on this as I was closing a different tab, maybe it will help you as it’s written by a former non-Catholic.
http://biblestudyforcatholics.com/catholics-pray-mary-saints/
http://biblestudyforcatholics.com/catholics-pray-mary-saints/
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StGerardMajella
Guest
Actually, these wouldn’t exactly be called “idols” as in the sense of idols that were to be worshiped as gods separate from the Creator. The angel statues in the Holy of Holies and the fiery serpent on the pole were never intended to be worshiped as other gods. The Creator made it clear that He was never in favor of idolatry.
The Creator commanded several religious items to be used in the Tabernacle in the wilderness, as well as in the Temple in Jerusalem. The menorah, for example, was never supposed to be worshiped as a god, neither were the altars or the table of showbread. Not even the Ark of the Covenant would fall into the category of a god to be worshiped.
We might better call these religious ornaments, or even symbols perhaps, but I think the term idol may have an erroneous connotation of an item to be worshiped by people. And that really isn’t the case with the angels or the fiery serpent on the pole.
C
Cjbhoward
Guest
The way I see it, we were all created for a purpose, a vocation. Most of us spend a lifetime discerning that purpose. We’ll continue serving that purpose even after death. Mary’s purpose was to bring Jesus to the world. Mary’s purpose is to bring Jesus to the world.
However close you think you are, or can get to Jesus, Mary can get you closer.
However close you think you are, or can get to Jesus, Mary can get you closer.
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po18guy
Well-known member
We pray to the Saints because:
- It works.
- To God, all are alive (not dead). Luke 20:38 "Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him.” In our ignorance, we see them only as dead. God sees them as alive in the spirit.
- They are perfected and stand in God’s presence. A sight advantage over our sinful friends here on earth.
P
PJM
Guest
OK, so please TAKE your explanation and APPLY it to what we Catholics ARE doing when praying THROUGH MAry and the Saints:hugs:
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StGerardMajella
Guest
We aren’t praying to Mary, or the saints as “gods”. We are praying to the Creator directly. Intercession is no different than asking a friend to pray for you. That doesn’t make the friend a “god”.
Regardless, it can be a slippery slope. Too often we see a blurry delineation, and this does cause our enemies to attack us as idol-worshipers. We would be better served to make clearer distinctions.
Regardless, it can be a slippery slope. Too often we see a blurry delineation, and this does cause our enemies to attack us as idol-worshipers. We would be better served to make clearer distinctions.
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