Help me understand the Nicene Creed

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Wolfie

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Hi, I am studying for R.C.I.A.

The second stanza of the Nicene Creed is about Jesus:

"born of the Father before all ages,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God.
begotten not made, consubstantial with
the Father;
through him all things were made."

It seems there is a lot of added emphasis when compared to the Apostles’ Creed. What is the Nicene Creed trying to clarify? What does it really mean? To me, it seems to say that God and Jesus are the same, that Jesus has existed before he was ever conceived. Does this mean they can be together, or they are the same?
 
Others will hopefully also comment, but Jesus always existed as God the Son, second person of the blessed Trinity. He became man when he was conceived by the Holy Ghost in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary. After that moment He is and always will be both God and man.
 
This was the Church’s response to heresy - as are almost all such Church responses. The heresy involved at that time was Arianism, which denied the divinity of Christ. It was huge, sharply dividing the Church for several hundred years.

Thus, the Church spoke and the matter was ended for believers.
 
You need a lot of catechesis.
To me, it seems to say that God and Jesus are the same, that Jesus has existed before he was ever conceived. Does this mean they can be together, or they are the same?
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Jesus is God, he is the second person of the Holy Trinity. The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists as 3 persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son. They are all separate. But, the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. God is three in one. They are all equal, they all share one will and intellect, they all share the same essence, but as persons they are different. They are not 3 gods, they are one God. There is only one God, no other god exists but God. Yet, God, as he is, exist as three persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus, being the Son, the second person of the Trinity, did exist before his conception. At his conception he became a human being. Jesus is both fully God and fully man. He became human in order to reconcile us to the Father.
It seems there is a lot of added emphasis when compared to the Apostles’ Creed. What is the Nicene Creed trying to clarify?
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At the time the Nicene Creed was composed, an Alexandrian priest named Arius was saying that Jesus was not God, but rather a kind of super angel that God created before the world and that he used to create the world through. This split the Church, with most bishops siding on the side of Trinitarianism, but a few sided with Arius. The Council of Nicaea was called to settle the question. The Trinitarian side won out over Arius, and most of the Arian bishops at the council ended up going over to the Trinitarian side. The Nicene Creed was created in reaction to Arius denying that Jesus was God. The Nicene Creed affirms that Jesus is God.
 
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thephilosopher6 said:
person of the Holy Trinity. The Trinity is the doctrine that there is one God who exists as 3 persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, a
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Sorry, I didn’t express these concepts elegantly, but I do know about the Holy Trinity (3 persons in one God). I was wondering what the Nicene Creed was trying to emphasize since this section includes several extra lines about being of the same substance and ends on “through him all things were made.” Thanks for the historical context, that is pretty important.
 
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It’s a response to the heresy of Arianism, which falsely taught that Christ was only of “like” substance (homoiousios) rather than the orthodox “same” substance ("homoousious). In short, Arianism taught that Christ was a creature: an exalted one but a creature nonetheless.

This had grave implications for salvation, and as such, the first Ecumenical Council had to be convened to settle the issue. The Council definitively taught the orthodox position and condemned Arius. The resulting declaration was the Nicene Creed of 325. Because Nicea I tackled a Christological heresy, the original Creed went into detail about Christ’s nature, which is why it’s rather extended in its profession about Christ. It just ends with a one-liner about the Holy Spirit and an anathema on those who dare oppose the Creed.

The Creed was expanded at the Council of Constantinople, and save for some mild differences (which is a sore point for the Orthodox), it is the Creed we use at Mass today.
 
Please be patient with me as I try to understand. I grew up with the notion that God is beyond time and place and not corporeal. It’s not that I question the unity of God in regards to the Trinity but I am trying to reconcile Jesus on earth in light of God being not corporeal and beyond time and place. How should I be looking at this. Any discussion would be welcomed.
 
Almighty God is in 3 Persons, but one God.

The Son, which is said to be eternally begotten (upon contemplation of Himself) by the Father, and this Son, for the purpose of our salvation and the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets, humbled Himself. He became man. Incarnate of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary, He truly was born fully human. Yet He is also fully God. The true understanding of this is that Jesus is with 2 natures, not a mix and match to where He is half man and half God, but fully God and fully Man.
 
Because He is the Only Begotten Son of God, the Father.
Any Person of the Trinity is rightly called God.
He is begotten, not made, of the Father, the Word, before all Creation.
The Word is sort of like wisdom. The Logos. It can be a somewhat deep subject.

And also obviously because He was born of a Virgin by the power of God.
 
So unlike us he is not made in the image of God. He is God. Could it be that the Word refers to the 5 books of the old testament which is how we first knew God and how God revealed himself to us. But with the new covenant Jesus is how God reveals himself. I hope I am not offending anyone. I am just trying to wrap my head around it because it is intefering with my ability to pray. But I do recognize that there is a mystery to all of it, too.
 
Jesus Christ was not created, so I suppose it is accurate to say we were made in His Image.

The Word (logos) does not refer to the Bible, but to a sort of wisdom.

The Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity, who is “produced” through love of Father and Son. I put produced in quotes as the Holy Ghost also was not created.

The Holy Ghost is not an it, but a person, like the Son and Father.
 
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Although the Holy Spirit wasn’t produced but proceeds from the Father and the Son.
 
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