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retire_early
Guest
Great ideas
- Status
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thewanderer
Guest
I’m sorry that you think I am jumping all over the daughter just because I suggested we keep in mind the possibility that they are actually being providentialist. As for the problems and warning signs you see in the OP’s post I see them as well and brought them up as concerns. All I am saying is we shouldn’t jump at one side or the other and treat them as though they are terrible people. Instead we should be gentle and try to gain more information about whats going on here, and try to help the OP see things from a different viewpoint. Posting harsh posts about how they are terrible people isn’t going to do that, showing genuine concern for them, and understanding that they are honestly looking for the best for their daughter (even if going about it the wrong way) is going to make it much more possible to actually help them see things from your point of view.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Perhaps. But the OP came in with some pretty disgusting language about his grand kids. I get that you catch more flies with honey but I don’t think we need to back the OPs view up with assumptions about the daughter. Who by all accounts should be charitably viewed as a Catholic in good standing with completely Holy motives here. Even if they are on government assistance or not. The view I take issue with is not some comment the daughter allegedly made to the grandparents here but rather the shockingly callous and rude way this was presented. The use of his daughters sex organs stopped being his business the moment she got married.
My childrens grandparents could have posted something very similar and I assure you, we are faithful Catholics in all aspects and we are pro life and pro family. I am certainly willing to give the daughter the same benefit of the doubt here. It is the OP that we have the exact words and views on. Quite illuminating if you ask me. And he came on a Catholic site and had these views. I don’t necessarily think each of us has to come bearing flowers here. I used the words sickening because some of them were. Children should not be talked about as rapid fire babies. And the view itself seems very anti christian and materialistic. Not to mention the absolute idea that this is none of his business.
You and I can come at this different ways. Neither is necessarily wrong. There are plenty of threads on here about the NFP issue and poverty and children. And it is something I struggle to understand from a theological perspective how in America we can cry poverty if someone is on government assistance and that it is questionable moral ground for a “poor” couple to live out the vocation of marriage. Yet the standard is theologically different for someone in Africa or South America. Honestly if you have to be off of the government to have kids, then no one should have children in public school.
Where I really wonder about this OP is why the SIL is not really mentioned here. If this was my daughter and I had his concerns I would want the SIL to get on the “earn more” bandwagon and not spending money to send a mom back to school and back to the workforce as an answer. Strangely his contempt seems to be for his own child and his grandchildren.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Not really a personal fan of Dave Ramsey but dang, this whole situation could be solved by his program.Great ideas
Rice and beans Beans and rice.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
The OP has not updated yet but I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that this issue is one of frustration on the grandparents part who probably are taking care of the grandkids and assisting financially. I would really understand that frustration, but it should not manifest itself in an anti life mentality from the OP ( a professed Christian) If the issue is the grandparents are ragged and feel overwhelmed as well then we can discuss that as soon as we get this nasty and misplaced view of the vocation of marriage and children out of the way.
If they are not wanting to feel obligated to help then perhaps they can cut back on that a little. Nicely, lovingly, and with a certain amount of understanding toward the OPs daughter and children.
IF the OP wants and feels like he needs to help his daughter out and their family out then great. If they cannot financially or physically or mentally contribute what they are doing then they need to be able to pull back. It is not the end of the world. The family will be ok. And perhaps even healthier if they do not see their increasing number of grandkids as such a burden or the cause of the daughter not living the life they want her to via school.
If they are not wanting to feel obligated to help then perhaps they can cut back on that a little. Nicely, lovingly, and with a certain amount of understanding toward the OPs daughter and children.
IF the OP wants and feels like he needs to help his daughter out and their family out then great. If they cannot financially or physically or mentally contribute what they are doing then they need to be able to pull back. It is not the end of the world. The family will be ok. And perhaps even healthier if they do not see their increasing number of grandkids as such a burden or the cause of the daughter not living the life they want her to via school.
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Maine52
Guest
I am sorry for all the harsh posts. I will do my best to help you understand the Church’s view on family planning and contraception:
The Catholic Church does not believe in the “have sex and see what happens, God will only give you what you can handle” mentality. On the contrary, the Church teaches that responsible family planning is a virtue. A married couple is to prayerfully discern the size of their family, considering their obligation to prioritize God first, then spouse, then children, then helping the community. They must also, of course, take into account finances, physical and mental health, etc.
That said, the Church also teaches that artificial birth control - pills, condoms, spermicide, sterilization, etc - is sinful. That does not mean the Church objects to responsible family planning - as I said, the Church teaches that responsible family planning is a VIRTUE. The Church requires that each act of marital intercourse must be ordered toward life, meaning a husband must climax and “spill his seed” inside his wife’s vagina. Couples may avoid pregnancy by limiting marital intercourse to the infertile phases of the woman’s menstrual cycle and abstaining from marital intercourse during the fertile phase of the woman’s menstrual cycle. This is called Natural Family Planning (NFP). NFP methods such as the Creighton Method (which tracks a woman’s fertile phase using observations of cervical fluid) and the Marquette Method (which uses cervical fluid as well as a fertility monitor) are 99% effective in avoiding pregnancy when used correctly.
The reason the Church teaches that all acts of marital intercourse must be ordered toward life is that the two God-given purposes of sex - 1.) uniting of husband and wife as one body and 2.) procreation - must not be separated. Using pills, condoms, spermicides, sterilization, etc. blocks out the procreative aspect of sex because it uses man-made devices or medical procedures to prevent sperm from getting to the egg. When a man climaxes inside his wife’s vagina without any artificial means of preventing pregnancy, the act is “ordered toward life” because the procreative aspect of sex is not blocked out, even if pregnancy does not result, because no unnatural means was used to stop the sperm from reaching the egg.
I agree with the posters who said your wife may want to introduce your daughter and son-in-law to one of these methods. I personally recommend the Marquette Method because you can learn about the method through an online system which allows you to talk to the professionals who invented the system. They are available to help 24/7.
I hope this helps answer your question. If you still have questions, please feel free to send me a PM. God bless you and your family.
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esieffe
Guest
I would direct the OP’s attention to this post. Very well stated. I would gladly trade places with the OPs son-in-law. I went the Masters route and due to a series of events that happened during and after the worthless Masters degree I am swimming in student loan debt with little hope of paying it off during my life time. I am simi-disabled but able to work a full time job, but even as I type this, I am in physical pain.I am sorry for all the harsh posts. I will do my best to help you understand the Church’s view on family planning and contraception:
The Catholic Church does not believe in the “have sex and see what happens, God will only give you what you can handle” mentality. On the contrary, the Church teaches that responsible family planning is a virtue. A married couple is to prayerfully discern the size of their family, considering their obligation to prioritize God first, then spouse, then children, then helping the community. They must also, of course, take into account finances, physical and mental health, etc.
That said, the Church also teaches that artificial birth control - pills, condoms, spermicide, sterilization, etc - is sinful. That does not mean the Church objects to responsible family planning - as I said, the Church teaches that responsible family planning is a VIRTUE. The Church requires that each act of marital intercourse must be ordered toward life, meaning a husband must climax and “spill his seed” inside his wife’s vagina. Couples may avoid pregnancy by limiting marital intercourse to the infertile phases of the woman’s menstrual cycle and abstaining from marital intercourse during the fertile phase of the woman’s menstrual cycle. This is called Natural Family Planning (NFP). NFP methods such as the Creighton Method (which tracks a woman’s fertile phase using observations of cervical fluid) and the Marquette Method (which uses cervical fluid as well as a fertility monitor) are 99% effective in avoiding pregnancy when used correctly.
The reason the Church teaches that all acts of marital intercourse must be ordered toward life is that the two God-given purposes of sex - 1.) uniting of husband and wife as one body and 2.) procreation - must not be separated. Using pills, condoms, spermicides, sterilization, etc. blocks out the procreative aspect of sex because it uses man-made devices or medical procedures to prevent sperm from getting to the egg. When a man climaxes inside his wife’s vagina without any artificial means of preventing pregnancy, the act is “ordered toward life” because the procreative aspect of sex is not blocked out, even if pregnancy does not result, because no unnatural means was used to stop the sperm from reaching the egg.
I agree with the posters who said your wife may want to introduce your daughter and son-in-law to one of these methods. I personally recommend the Marquette Method because you can learn about the method through an online system which allows you to talk to the professionals who invented the system. They are available to help 24/7.
I hope this helps answer your question. If you still have questions, please feel free to send me a PM. God bless you and your family.
While reading through all the posts, I could not help but think of the old show “The Waltons.” I know it’s kind of old fashioned, corney, and simplistic, but it was based on a true story, and these people were poor, but had a family business and lived together. Everyone chipped in, and they were a mostly happy family.
With four kids, it won’t be long before daughter and son-in-law will be way too exhausted to be thinking about anything as taxing as marital relations! NFP yes, but soon the most important scheduling for anything outside of managing the family will be SLEEP and NAPS! So if I were the OP, I would relax. He will get over it. If I were him though, I would consider following the example of the Waltons and find a REALLY BIG HOUSE. Pool your income and resources.
Goodnight JimBob!
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7armyrugrats
Guest
I’ll be honest and say I am doubtful that the grandparents help nearly as much as he claims. I seriously doubt as judgemental as he is being towards his daughter that he is financially supporting them. I know that no one has supported me and my husband and our 8 kids, especially the ones that are so judgmental of us. Many people are. I’ve heard the same things said about our kids and the size of our family and the “decision” to keep breeding as grandpa puts it. I had people jump for joy when our fourth was born and we finally had a girl after those first three boys so obviously we are going to finally cut it off. I remember how when I gave birt to #6 and I had just turned 30 people were horrified for me, telling me how exhausted I must be and knowing that there was no way I could afford to stay home and care for all those kids since my husband didn’t have a degree. People assumed we were on food stamps and all sorts of assistance programs. We never were. No one provided except my husband and God. Yes, God did provide. He always will provide for our needs. We just need to trust in Him. People assumed my husband was forcing me into having all these kids and wouldn’t allow me to work. None of that is even close to true.
God did send those sweet babies to your daughter. He chose her as their mother. Each child is a unique gift of joy from Our Lord. I have been blessed with 8 here on earth and 8 in heaven. Everyone here on this planet is supposed to be here. Too many are never born for anything else to be true. Too many die inutero by natural causes. Many others die soon after birth. Your daughter could use some emotional support instead of emotional blackmail. Offering to pay for her education if she stops having kids is horrible. Offering something similar to her husband is just as wrong. Being on government health care is not something anyone should be concerned about because most people are now on government healthcare. It’s the law for goodness sakes!
My husband has provided a beautiful life for our kids. We never get ahead but we always get by. My husband’s income will never be great because the military does not pay well. I am alone most of the time, but I am surrounded by my children. It isn’t any more overwhelming to be a mom of 8 than it is to be a mom of 2. Your daughter probably is more stressed with the fact that no one rejoices with her when a new baby is arriving than she is with the work involved with caring for the children. It is devastating to moms when each time a new baby is announced they are responded to with negative comments instead of congratulations. Nothing hurts more than someone not embracing your children with love. Nothing does more harm to a person than people telling them what is best for them because obviously they don’t know what best or they would do it your way.
Grandpa, you need to back off. This is her marriage, her children, her life.
God did send those sweet babies to your daughter. He chose her as their mother. Each child is a unique gift of joy from Our Lord. I have been blessed with 8 here on earth and 8 in heaven. Everyone here on this planet is supposed to be here. Too many are never born for anything else to be true. Too many die inutero by natural causes. Many others die soon after birth. Your daughter could use some emotional support instead of emotional blackmail. Offering to pay for her education if she stops having kids is horrible. Offering something similar to her husband is just as wrong. Being on government health care is not something anyone should be concerned about because most people are now on government healthcare. It’s the law for goodness sakes!
My husband has provided a beautiful life for our kids. We never get ahead but we always get by. My husband’s income will never be great because the military does not pay well. I am alone most of the time, but I am surrounded by my children. It isn’t any more overwhelming to be a mom of 8 than it is to be a mom of 2. Your daughter probably is more stressed with the fact that no one rejoices with her when a new baby is arriving than she is with the work involved with caring for the children. It is devastating to moms when each time a new baby is announced they are responded to with negative comments instead of congratulations. Nothing hurts more than someone not embracing your children with love. Nothing does more harm to a person than people telling them what is best for them because obviously they don’t know what best or they would do it your way.
Grandpa, you need to back off. This is her marriage, her children, her life.
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PumpkinPies37
Guest
OP, I think you are very brave and kind to post your thoughts here. Brave, because you must know this is the internet, and you really never know what kind of answer you are going to get. Kind, because I can see that you truly love your daughter - enough to go to ‘her people’ and ask, very respectfully, what on earth you should think of all this.
I imagine that this has been an incredible shock to you. After all, you Baby Boomers really think you had rebellion in the bag, right?
The truth is, many people from our generation are going back to very traditional ways. Our parents are flummoxed. I know, in my immediate circle of friends, several people who were raised “right” and to value education and success above all things - turning to all kinds of baby-making nonsense.
I would be worried too, if I were you - that your daughter and her husband cannot buy basic necessities. But that’s all you can do - worry. They have a different value system. THEY think they are rich. They think there are doing the right thing.
Are you sure that you’re not embarrassed? If you are, then please, please, check yourself.
If it makes you uncomfortable to offer financial help at ALL, you need to stop. Be honest, did you offer? Or did they ask?
LOVE your daughter. She probably knows how you feel and it probably crushes her. She wants you to be proud of her. Tell her what a wonderful mother she is. Tell HER CHILDREN what a wonderful mother she is. You are her father. She loves you. She needs you more than you could ever know.
There are many of us here who are in your daughter’s position. We love our children. We chose a family instead of a career. I have seven children. I feel I chose wisely. OF COURSE I get exhausted. But that’s my choice. Mine. When I look at my children around the dinner table every night, my heart surges with joy. I can imagine that if I had become the kind of woman my parents wanted me to become, I’d have a fancy apartment, a string of boyfriends, and lots of pretty pictures of vacations that they could show to their friends.
I can assure you that even with the financial troubles, your daughter and her husband feel that they are making wise choices in their lives.
Life is short, Dad. Let it go.
I imagine that this has been an incredible shock to you. After all, you Baby Boomers really think you had rebellion in the bag, right?
The truth is, many people from our generation are going back to very traditional ways. Our parents are flummoxed. I know, in my immediate circle of friends, several people who were raised “right” and to value education and success above all things - turning to all kinds of baby-making nonsense.
I would be worried too, if I were you - that your daughter and her husband cannot buy basic necessities. But that’s all you can do - worry. They have a different value system. THEY think they are rich. They think there are doing the right thing.
Are you sure that you’re not embarrassed? If you are, then please, please, check yourself.
If it makes you uncomfortable to offer financial help at ALL, you need to stop. Be honest, did you offer? Or did they ask?
LOVE your daughter. She probably knows how you feel and it probably crushes her. She wants you to be proud of her. Tell her what a wonderful mother she is. Tell HER CHILDREN what a wonderful mother she is. You are her father. She loves you. She needs you more than you could ever know.
There are many of us here who are in your daughter’s position. We love our children. We chose a family instead of a career. I have seven children. I feel I chose wisely. OF COURSE I get exhausted. But that’s my choice. Mine. When I look at my children around the dinner table every night, my heart surges with joy. I can imagine that if I had become the kind of woman my parents wanted me to become, I’d have a fancy apartment, a string of boyfriends, and lots of pretty pictures of vacations that they could show to their friends.
I can assure you that even with the financial troubles, your daughter and her husband feel that they are making wise choices in their lives.
Life is short, Dad. Let it go.
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ephesians4
Guest
Very well said, and you posted it far more nicely and eloquently than I.
I am a little defensive of fruitful “ordered” families because there is a hostile array of different negative attitudes in the modern world, against people choosing to be fruitful and multiply, to make sacrifices for a loving family, to live in traditional gender roles, to basically have the large traditional family, as if that must be an unwitting accident, disaster, situation to be pitied.
I remember the disgusted tones of even relatively nice “normal” people as we announced we were going past 3 (people who were in no way financially helping us, not that it would give them a say in such a thing if they were!). This is in a society that was dwindling due to low birth rates. Here we are now continuing our beautiful family, struggling through what life brings, loving each other, falling out, falling in, living life and generally being useless and thankful in equal measure.
I would not trade it in for more education, or more money in the bank or a second Lexus in the drive, but while I don’t like to go around judging what other people choose to do, all sorts of unlikely people (even strangers!) feel it fitting to offer negative (name removed by moderator)ut on how many children a couple has these days, and my feeling is that the weight of this must occasionally prevail against individuals/families when it shouldn’t.
Honestly it’s someone else’s decision in their own marriage and nuclear family - you don’t have to like it or dislike it.
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Hockeygurl
Guest
WOW, I am sorry you have to read some of these responses… HARSH and also not very Christian-like.
It might help to know a little more information re: how often do you babysit the children and why (is she working, grocery shopping etc?) Are you EXPECTED to watch the kids and give them money? I can see how you might feel taken advantage of in this situation as it sounds like they are not motivated to change the situation.
I will say that I do agree with other posters that you have to be respectful and allow her and her husband to make their own decisions, however, you should not have to financially support these decisions.
I think you might have to sit both of them down and have a conversation with them. If you feel taken advantage of… let them know. Tell them that you will respect their family planning decisions but that your conscience will no longer allow you to be financially responsible for them.
I know it sounds harsh, but I don’t see much of a choice for you. I also think that it is not reasonable to put conditions on the money/education that you are offering. They WILL figure it out, by getting a cheaper place, cheaper car, whatever it takes, but you have to let them sink or swim. You can’t go on doing it forever.
It might help to know a little more information re: how often do you babysit the children and why (is she working, grocery shopping etc?) Are you EXPECTED to watch the kids and give them money? I can see how you might feel taken advantage of in this situation as it sounds like they are not motivated to change the situation.
I will say that I do agree with other posters that you have to be respectful and allow her and her husband to make their own decisions, however, you should not have to financially support these decisions.
I think you might have to sit both of them down and have a conversation with them. If you feel taken advantage of… let them know. Tell them that you will respect their family planning decisions but that your conscience will no longer allow you to be financially responsible for them.
I know it sounds harsh, but I don’t see much of a choice for you. I also think that it is not reasonable to put conditions on the money/education that you are offering. They WILL figure it out, by getting a cheaper place, cheaper car, whatever it takes, but you have to let them sink or swim. You can’t go on doing it forever.
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PumpkinPies37
Guest
A little perspective:
Where children around the world sleep…
news.distractify.com/culture/childrens-bedrooms-across-the-world/?v=1
Where children around the world sleep…
news.distractify.com/culture/childrens-bedrooms-across-the-world/?v=1
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Michaeljc4
Guest
Just two thoughts:
In our society, there is no doubt that education makes for a better life, economically speaking. You can look at the data about earnings and health and stress and see that, the more education you have, the better off you are. It’s no wonder that the OP granddad is concerned about his daughter’s well-being because, first, she and her family and struggling, and second, finishing her education will almost inevitably lead to a more stable and comfortable life. Health insurance, retirement, savings, owning a home, perhaps saving for her own children’s education…all good things.
However, having children is pretty darn important, too. I have never met a person in my life who has said, “Man, I wish I had fewer children!” Children create love; they are like little love factories. They are the most important thing. Ever.
So do the best you can to help your daughter, pray for her, encourage her, and be there for her. With God’s grace, someday you will be sitting at the head of a table at Thanksgiving, looking out over your big, beautiful family and feeling that you have been blessed.
In our society, there is no doubt that education makes for a better life, economically speaking. You can look at the data about earnings and health and stress and see that, the more education you have, the better off you are. It’s no wonder that the OP granddad is concerned about his daughter’s well-being because, first, she and her family and struggling, and second, finishing her education will almost inevitably lead to a more stable and comfortable life. Health insurance, retirement, savings, owning a home, perhaps saving for her own children’s education…all good things.
However, having children is pretty darn important, too. I have never met a person in my life who has said, “Man, I wish I had fewer children!” Children create love; they are like little love factories. They are the most important thing. Ever.
So do the best you can to help your daughter, pray for her, encourage her, and be there for her. With God’s grace, someday you will be sitting at the head of a table at Thanksgiving, looking out over your big, beautiful family and feeling that you have been blessed.
S
Stilldreamn
Guest
This works quite well for our very large family. With the economy the way it is, it is very hard for young families to “launch” like they did in the 1980s. We get that. Both my husband and myself have worked and swapped roles as “parent-at-home” over the years and our kids are doing the same. Nobody goes into a nursing home, and nobody goes into day-care.If I were him though, I would consider following the example of the Waltons and find a REALLY BIG HOUSE. Pool your income and resources.
Goodnight JimBob!
My dad spent several decades criticizing me for all the babies, too. He went a step farther than the OP though. He offered to pay my tuition and living expenses for an advanced degree if I agreed to divorce my husband - who had been laid off and was never able to get a job that paid as well. Dad didn’t want him to benefit from any largesse offered to me. We responded by moving 700 miles away. Dad passed away in 2004, and my Mom loves hanging out with our big messy family. My husband is retired and spends his days tending his “grandchild garden” while I work full-time at an outside job.
I think extended families are a really good way to deal with the challenges of this time.
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PaulinVA
Guest
About the daughter and her husband:
God does not “give”’ us babies. We have sex, and if the right biological conditions are met, there is fertilization. If further right conditions exist, there is implantation, etc. We are co creators with God. We do the biological part, and God does the ensoulment. This is true. If it were not, NFP and other scientifically-based fertility awareness programs would not work.
So, yes, you can end up with more children than you can handle. It is simple biology. That has already happened. If you need mom and dad to pay your rent, you have a problem. This is wrong. You need to take control of your lives and be self sufficient. You can’t mooch off your parents and expect them to remain silent.
For the father (FordDad):
You are certainly butting into your daughter’s life, but I think you have paid for the privilege by paying the rent and babysitting. They have drawn you in (I’m sure you were willing) and you do have a right to an opinion.
But, the overall vibe of your daughter’s not living up to your expectations probably comes across to them. It is very hard to afford daycare for four kids. Once you get to that point, it’s usually cheaper to stay home and take care of the kids.
The question of how to move forward (for you and your daughter’s family) is indeed complicated.
God does not “give”’ us babies. We have sex, and if the right biological conditions are met, there is fertilization. If further right conditions exist, there is implantation, etc. We are co creators with God. We do the biological part, and God does the ensoulment. This is true. If it were not, NFP and other scientifically-based fertility awareness programs would not work.
So, yes, you can end up with more children than you can handle. It is simple biology. That has already happened. If you need mom and dad to pay your rent, you have a problem. This is wrong. You need to take control of your lives and be self sufficient. You can’t mooch off your parents and expect them to remain silent.
For the father (FordDad):
You are certainly butting into your daughter’s life, but I think you have paid for the privilege by paying the rent and babysitting. They have drawn you in (I’m sure you were willing) and you do have a right to an opinion.
But, the overall vibe of your daughter’s not living up to your expectations probably comes across to them. It is very hard to afford daycare for four kids. Once you get to that point, it’s usually cheaper to stay home and take care of the kids.
The question of how to move forward (for you and your daughter’s family) is indeed complicated.
X
Xantippe
Guest
Hockeygurl said:
“I will say that I do agree with other posters that you have to be respectful and allow her and her husband to make their own decisions, however, you should not have to financially support these decisions.”
Exactly.
“I will say that I do agree with other posters that you have to be respectful and allow her and her husband to make their own decisions, however, you should not have to financially support these decisions.”
Exactly.
M
MomaMary8
Guest
OP it sounds like your daughter is being given a lot of graces to be able to quietly put up with such a disagreeable, judgmental father. As a so-called “breeder” I find you to be very offensive. You’d be lucky to step into my home with the filth that comes out of your mouth (in this case, finger tips.) Do you speak in this way to your daughter?? I sincerely hope not.
I think the biggest obstacle to my peace when beginning my family was dealing with people that thought I was throwing my life away and not pursuing my education. For some reason it is assumed that to be a stay-at-home mom to many children, one must not have any other ability. Why else would people consider it a waste of education or a waste of talents?? Having children is not a temporary thing to go through for many of us. We do not view having one or two children as a temporary hurdle that we have to jump through before getting back to “our life.” We see having children as our life and calling! Never was I so happy as when people stopped asking what I was going to do when I went back to work! ugh! How insulting you are being to your beautiful and smart daughter!!! She is doing what she is supposed to be doing! Quit asking her to give up her vocation and career as a mom. She can use her talents and intelligence and raise wonderful human beings who love and serve our LORD. She sounds like she has her eyes set on Heaven and not Earth. Good for her.
I like the suggestion that you take the time to learn more about your daughter’s faith.
And despite all this talk of NFP, the church does not require her to use any such natural spacing method. They may use it if the couple prayerfully discerns that they have a serious/grave reason to do so.
I think the biggest obstacle to my peace when beginning my family was dealing with people that thought I was throwing my life away and not pursuing my education. For some reason it is assumed that to be a stay-at-home mom to many children, one must not have any other ability. Why else would people consider it a waste of education or a waste of talents?? Having children is not a temporary thing to go through for many of us. We do not view having one or two children as a temporary hurdle that we have to jump through before getting back to “our life.” We see having children as our life and calling! Never was I so happy as when people stopped asking what I was going to do when I went back to work! ugh! How insulting you are being to your beautiful and smart daughter!!! She is doing what she is supposed to be doing! Quit asking her to give up her vocation and career as a mom. She can use her talents and intelligence and raise wonderful human beings who love and serve our LORD. She sounds like she has her eyes set on Heaven and not Earth. Good for her.
I like the suggestion that you take the time to learn more about your daughter’s faith.
And despite all this talk of NFP, the church does not require her to use any such natural spacing method. They may use it if the couple prayerfully discerns that they have a serious/grave reason to do so.
H
heidi_storage
Guest
Whoa, “filth” is a little strong, isn’t it? I understand why you feel defensive; our church has several large families, and the parents have spoken about the judgmental attitude they get from their relatives. And I think large families are wonderful, and I hope God is pleased to send me many children.
But please, remember that the OP loves his daughter and wants what is best for her; he may be mistaken as to what “the best” is, and he DEFINITELY doesn’t get to make any decisions about her family size. But he came on CAF looking for answers and understanding. I think people here have given him some good insight, and I hope this is helpful to him; vitriolic responses, however, aren’t.
To the OP: As others have said, if you don’t feel it’s right to support your daughter financially, don’t do it; but offering money on a certain condition isn’t the way to go.
K
Kal2012
Guest
Motherhood can be a vocation too.
A lot of women get pushed into having a career that they don’t really want because it’s just unimaginable that a woman would just want to be a wife and mom in today’s society. Then, we wonder why so many women are inherently unhappy with the direction of their lives.
I know one Catholic mom who has 8 kids, not all biological hers (they adopted a few through foster care) and she’s just an inspiration to everyone. She never went to college, but it doesn’t matter because she’s living out her life’s plan and you can tell it in her actions and her attitude towards life. She is doing exactly what she’s supposed to be.
There’s nothing wrong with having goals and dreams, but you need to make sure they are her dreams, not your dreams for her.
That said, I totally understand being concerned about your daughter having so many kids in such a small period of time and being broke. Sometimes people do have problems using NFP and like others have said, it is hard to get ahead in today’s economy.
I have a friend who graduated from college at the same time I did (15 years ago) and she’s living with her parents, looking for job even though she has marketable skills and has been through job retraining to get a degree in something “useful.” Employers are can be really picky these days, given that there’s so many people in the applicant pool. Not everyone who graduates from college is “successful.”
Sometimes you take risks and the results don’t pan out like you thought they would. (As what happened in her case. ) College isn’t a guarantee for a good monetary life. It may have been years ago, but that’s not the way it is these days.
A lot of women get pushed into having a career that they don’t really want because it’s just unimaginable that a woman would just want to be a wife and mom in today’s society. Then, we wonder why so many women are inherently unhappy with the direction of their lives.
I know one Catholic mom who has 8 kids, not all biological hers (they adopted a few through foster care) and she’s just an inspiration to everyone. She never went to college, but it doesn’t matter because she’s living out her life’s plan and you can tell it in her actions and her attitude towards life. She is doing exactly what she’s supposed to be.
There’s nothing wrong with having goals and dreams, but you need to make sure they are her dreams, not your dreams for her.
That said, I totally understand being concerned about your daughter having so many kids in such a small period of time and being broke. Sometimes people do have problems using NFP and like others have said, it is hard to get ahead in today’s economy.
I have a friend who graduated from college at the same time I did (15 years ago) and she’s living with her parents, looking for job even though she has marketable skills and has been through job retraining to get a degree in something “useful.” Employers are can be really picky these days, given that there’s so many people in the applicant pool. Not everyone who graduates from college is “successful.”
Sometimes you take risks and the results don’t pan out like you thought they would. (As what happened in her case. ) College isn’t a guarantee for a good monetary life. It may have been years ago, but that’s not the way it is these days.
L
Lorelei12
Guest
I do agree with all of this. The OP did use some very harsh words about his daughter and grandchildren, and I hope that he does not actually speak to them in this way. And he does need to understand that his daughter’s marriage and their intimate life is not his business nor is it up for discussion. The daughter should not even have to defend herself about that to him, or give him any kind of explanation.
I do feel it’s irresponsible and imprudent, and just plain incorrect to say that God won’t give us what we can’t handle, though. He gave us free will, and won’t interfere with that, no matter what the consequences might be for us. The Church makes no requirement that couples use NFP, so I can’t say that either. But even though they may not be directly sinning, that doesn’t necessarily mean they are being wise or prudent. They cannot take care of their family- cannot even put a roof over their heads. People like to forget that we are also called to responsible parenthood- and I would argue that a lack of concern that other people are doing the “handling” of what God has provided this couple is not responsible.
That is why I can understand the OP’s frustration. Not his harsh words or attitude, but his exasperation over the situation. He needs to let go of the idea that he has any control (or that he even should) of his daughter’s marital relationship. And do away with the conditional offers of help. The one thing he does have control over is his assistance to them, which is enabling them to be complacent with regard to taking responsibility. It’s possible that if he pulls back on his financial support, they will consider that they are in over their heads and become more responsible, maybe by the SIL looking for a better paying or extra job, maybe by the wife finding something she can do part time, if the parents are willing to watch the children for free. Maybe they will find a cheaper place to live. Maybe they will take a financial course and learn how to budget better. Right now, they have no incentive to do any of these things, and it doesn’t sound like they’re interested in improving their situation. If the OP wants to help his daughter, he will need to let go of his ideas of what their lifestyle should look like, and let them figure it out themselves.
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