Help me understand this

[Mandychu22]

This is interesting to me. ANd it really gets to the heart of what I was saying earlier. As Catholics, as humans, and as Christians we are not guided by a different set of moral rules because of the country we live in or geo political systems. In Canada everyone is on government healthcare. In America that has a stigma. And as you can see, brings on emotion, anger even, about something as simple as the first command ever given to humanity from the mouth of God. And something as personal as sexual intimacy between a husband and wife. Anyone who makes the argument about government assistance and procreation is first and foremost a political person and not a faithful person. I am a white republican american male. I was raised on Rush Limbaugh and Trickle Down Economics. And yet, I cannot let that become over and above my faith.

Pope Francis taught me that. Well, and Jesus.

How very true. I particularly like the parts I bolded.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

OP, please reflect on these statements made by the Pope just a couple days ago. It was in the context of a pro life group. And apply them to your daughter.

Human life, however, is “a gift from God” and if it is accepted as such, “then you have before you a valuable and intangible asset, to be protected by all means and not to be discarded.”

And

“This economy kills. It considers the human being in himself as a commodity; a commodity that you can use and then throw away.

And my favorite.

One of the “most serious risks” of the modern world, he said, “is the divorce between economics and morality.” In a world offering “a market equipped with every technological innovation, elementary ethical standards of human nature [are] more and more neglected.”

lifesitenews.com/pope-francis-calls-abortion-an-abominable-crime-in-strongest-remarks-to-dat2.html

Now, these may have been to a pro life group and targeted against abortion but if you really think about them, if you really think about how we should view them. It even applies to the situation with your daugher where you want her to go to school and be a commodity an earner…

Remember, it may just be one of those grandkids wiping the drool from your chin someday. Or your daughter. Remember, not only do we Catholics, take having babies seriously, we also take the elderly seriously. Perhaps then, your daughters view of her faith will be more palatable to you.

 

[TeachCatechism]

After looking at the posts you make here and the posts on your own thread, I think you really need to consider how much you look down on other people. It may be part of the reason you are experiencing the issue you made your thread about. Please try to examine yourself honestly and work on you anger and resentment. You may find many things in life improve for you. When we spend so much time looking down on others we forget to look up to God and see that He really does have all of this in His Hands. He has it all under control and we just need to accept that He knows our needs and provides for us. Jesus explains this well by saying that God cares for the flowers and birds and we are much more important than them. Of course He will provide for us as well. Please start looking up and stop always looking down. Your answers come from up there, and you know, He may see YOU as beneath Him just as you see others as beneath yourself.

…Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us…
Do unto unto others…
Let the children come to me…

The op’s daughter is in need of help and she is using the system. She needs to use NFP if she can’t afford to support a family. Is it fair to ask people like me to support her?

 

[TeachCatechism]

We are over burdened with taxes but it almost never gets to those in real need. It is not the struggling few who I resent the most. I resent that my tax dollars go to companies like Solyndra and organizations like planned parenthood et al. It would indeed be better if taxes were not so burdensome so that we could give as we are commanded. Matthew 25 was not written to the government but to all of us individually. We stand before the Lord on judgment day as individuals not as part of a collective group of citizens. Having said that, if I were you I would take to heart what you were told by a few people here like 7armyrugrats and others have said about your attitude. You come across as a very angry and arrogant person. I am related to someone who is very much like you. She is in her forties and is beautiful too. You say you were a model, she was in TV commercials but her personality is abrasive. Guess what? She can’t find a husband either.

Annie

I’m arrogant because I will never have kids yet am forced to support people who have kids they can’t support. That’s not fair to me. I don’t want to support PP or corporations either.

 

[Irishmom2]

I’m arrogant because I will never have kids yet am forced to support people who have kids they can’t support. That’s not fair to me. I don’t want to support PP or corporations either.

And people that didn’t have kids may have paid for your schooling when you were a child through their taxes. Should they have been arrogant too?

 

[7armyrugrats]

The op’s daughter is in need of help and she is using the system. She needs to use NFP if she can’t afford to support a family. Is it fair to ask people like me to support her?

I got pregnant multiple time using NFP and many other people do as well. Many people use condoms and get pregnant. Many people use birth control of all types and get pregnant. No one knows if she is purposely trying to get pregnant or if she is trying to avoid but is very fertile. And honestly it is not anyone’s business either way.

And by the way, she doesn’t get pregnant in her own. Her husband happens to be with her in this yet every post you make it is blaming her and her alone. I’m sorry you are so bitter about life, but how dare you insult a young married woman simply because she has the life you wish you could have? Envy is one if the seven deadly sins for a reason.

 

[TeachCatechism]

And people that didn’t have kids may have paid for your schooling when you were a child through their taxes. Should they have been arrogant too?

Yes but I’m not talking about education, I’m talking about healthcare. Until recently healthcare that was state funded was not available to childless. Is that fair? nope.

 

[Mandychu22]

The op’s daughter is in need of help and she is using the system. She needs to use NFP if she can’t afford to support a family. Is it fair to ask people like me to support her?

Using =/= abusing the system. The system is there for a reason. And I’m not sure how many times it needs to be stated, but we have NO way of knowing she’s not attempting NFP.

Far too much emphasis is being placed on ‘fair’. Is it fair that you were born in one of the richest nations in the world? Is it fair that you have access to good food, fresh water, education, infrastructure, etc; while people in other countries (or your own) are oppressed, starving, abused? That seems unfair. Many many] people who are starving and dying of curable diseases worldwide work much harder than anyone living in North America can comprehend, yet they have less than what is needed to survive. That is unfair. Why should any of us be living in relative luxury while such horrible situations exist?

The question isn’t whether or not it’s ‘fair’, because the world isn’t fair. What we think is fair and what is moral are also very different things. (So is what we think of as fair, and what is actually fair).

Although, tbh, the system is set up to be of use to anyone who requires it. You pay into it. They pay into it. Anyone else who works pays into it. They have a need so they have access. If you had that need, you would also have access. In that sense, yes it is VERY fair. Paying taxes towards these programs is an insurance policy against misfortune. You do it because you can’t know when you enter the world what misfortunes may befall you, and often times you don’t know beforehand what choices you might make which lead to need.

Perhaps instead of begrudging people basic necessities (and I would consider access to healthcare a necessity) you should be grateful that you have no need of assistance in obtaining them. Easier said than done, I know, but it seems like a better option to me.

It is not immoral for this couple to engage in intercourse. They don’t “Need to use NFP”, although it might be prudent for them to do so. It isn’t my place to comment. Their sex life is none of your concern, and irrelevant to the conversation.

Should they work towards financial stability if at all possible? I would say yes to that. Does that mean their healthcare coverage is unfair or unjust? Not in the slightest.

 

[TeachCatechism]

How can it be fair when not everyone can avail themselves of it? until Medicaid expansion only parents and kids were eligible. My aunt had no insurance and died because medicaid wouldn’t help her. None of this is fair so nope the system isn’t fair and to claim it is means not knowing how the system works.

 

[Irishmom2]

Yes but I’m not talking about education, I’m talking about healthcare. Until recently healthcare that was state funded was not available to childless. Is that fair? nope.

Who said life is fair? I missed that memo. Do you really want to get into a contest here about what is fair? I am sure there are lots of people on here that have things happen to them in life, but they don’t wring their hands and say woe is me, life is so unfair. And you know why? It doesn’t get you anywhere and shows one’s lack of faith and trust in God.

 

[Mandychu22]

Yes but I’m not talking about education, I’m talking about healthcare. Until recently healthcare that was state funded was not available to childless. Is that fair? nope.

You’re right. Instead of fighting to have healthcare available to everyone, we should totally stick it to those thieves and make sure nobody can get access. (The sarcasm runs strong in that sentence)

For some reason King Solomon springs to mind… I can’t seem to remember why though.

 

[TeachCatechism]

Well, until recently it was not available to childless people and that is wrong and morally wrong. It’s not an issue of being fair but making sure everyone has help. When childless are not eligible then it is wrong and deadly.

 

[Millie123]

Well, until recently it was not available to childless people and that is wrong and morally wrong. It’s not an issue of being fair but making sure everyone has help. When childless are not eligible then it is wrong and deadly.

I’m not sure what you mean when you say that childless people do not have access to healthcare. I’m an ICU nurse, and I’ve seen countless numbers of people both married and unmarried, with children and without who have received assistance with their healthcare.

 

[TeachCatechism]

I’m not sure what you mean when you say that childless people do not have access to healthcare. I’m an ICU nurse, and I’ve seen countless numbers of people both married and unmarried, with children and without who have received assistance with their healthcare.

Until now in Illinois people without kids could not receive medicaid. I know, I applied and got rejected. Not just me, childless did not qualify.

 

[Mandychu22]

Who said life is fair? I missed that memo. Do you really want to get into a contest here about what is fair? I am sure there are lots of people on here that have things happen to them in life, but they don’t wring their hands and say woe is me, life is so unfair. And you know why? It doesn’t get you anywhere and shows one’s lack of faith and trust in God.

I can’t remember a time past my teens when I thought ‘that’s not fair’ was a valid argument. The usual response from my parents when one of us said that was a shrug, a “life’s not fair”, or (once we got older) a “here’s the world’s smallest violin, playing in your honour”. It really made me angry at the time , but I think it’s served me well (and it’s always entertaining hearing it used on my youngest siblings). It’s served me much better than an explanation would have, and definitely better prepared me for the real world.

It’s definitely true that believing everything needs to be fair can cause a spiritual crisis… I know I’ve been there.

 

[Mandychu22]

Until now in Illinois people without kids could not receive medicaid. I know, I applied and got rejected. Not just me, childless did not qualify.

But they can qualify now, so clearly that’s been fixed.

I also don’t see the relationship between Illinois law regarding single people, that is no longer in effect, and the current use of the program by a family in California.

 

[7armyrugrats]

No one has ever said life is fair. Lots of things aren’t fair. Does that give us a right to belittle people who have things that we cannot have?

You know, it’s not fair that my husband made it home from Iraq four times while my friend’s husband didn’t make it home from his first trip. Yet she was with me at the welcome home ceremony celebrating the return of my husband and the 150+ soldiers in his unit’s return with tremendous joy in her heart. Yes, she celebrated it because she cares for us, but I know how terribly hard it must have been when everyone else had a soldier to hug except her. And it was terribly hard on the rest of us knowing there was no way we could make her pain disappear. Life is hard.

I am sorry for your aunt. I know that is hard on you and your family. People all over the world have experienced that pain. My baby brother also died when he could possibly have been saved if he had access to medical care. He was 33, married with a 3 year old boy. It wasn’t fair to his wife that she became a widow at 25 or his son to be left so young that he has no real memories of his dad. If he had health insurance, maybe he would have sought out care sooner and then maybe he would be ok today. That is probably a big part of why I see no problem with others accepting help. See? It’s similar experiences but opposite reactions in response to the heartache. You are old enough that you should not need this explained to you. You can choose how you respond to things. You can choose to not be bitter. You can choose to not be arrogant. You can choose to be happy for others instead of envious of them. You can choose to love instead of hate.

Faith, hope and love, these three remain. And the greatest of these is love. St. Paul wrote these words to the Corinthians. You seem to need to be reminded of the need for all three of these. You faith is weak, you’ve given up hope, and love has been replaced with resentment. Please, for the sake of your soul, please work on this. I will pray for you.

 

[holyrood]

If you paid a lot in taxes for moochers and lived in an area full of them you would feel the same. I’m tired of paying for them, especially considering until recently poor childless didn’t get medicaid. Childless also pay more in taxes. So yep tired of this mindset and would rather donate money (which I do)to help people instead of forced to support it.

This demonstrates once again that you jump to judgments about people. I play plenty in taxes because I work hard. I do live in an area full of people on welfare. If you’re tired of paying for such people, I hope you’re working hard to rid the country of these programs, but when it comes to state-subsidized health care in particular, many people on it, including this family, do work, and do pay the taxes that support that health care.

If this woman is using NFP and gets pregnant anyway, I’d really like to know what it is you expect her to do? People get pregnant on pills, condoms, with IUDs, and using NFP. Sex results in pregnancy, end of story. Birth control reduces the chance, but it has never been 100%.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Until now in Illinois people without kids could not receive medicaid. I know, I applied and got rejected. Not just me, childless did not qualify.

Wait. You applied for a government program that you begrudge others using?

I am sorry for your frustrations with life and you obviously are hurt. But attacking others will not bring you into Catholic Holiness. And as a teacher, you should not misdirect your hurts to the offense of children. And those who have them. For each condemning judgemental thing you have said of the OPs daughter you are condemning Billions of Catholics and almost every single saint ever born. Perhaps, you should think about your emotions in this thread and how they may be transparent enough that you may want to start a thread of your own.

 

[7armyrugrats]

This demonstrates once again that you jump to judgments about people. I play plenty in taxes because I work hard. I do live in an area full of people on welfare. If you’re tired of paying for such people, I hope you’re working hard to rid the country of these programs, but when it comes to state-subsidized health care in particular, many people on it, including this family, do work, and do pay the taxes that support that health care.

If this woman is using NFP and gets pregnant anyway, I’d really like to know what it is you expect her to do? People get pregnant on pills, condoms, with IUDs, and using NFP. Sex results in pregnancy, end of story. Birth control reduces the chance, but it has never been 100%.

Yes! My sister had #5 seven years after having her tubes tied. She then had to have a hysterectomy due to uterine rupture. That is 100% effective but not ideal. Many men have impregnated women after vasectomies. There are numerous “pill babies” and “condom failures” as well. The IUD was banned for years because babies were born with them implanted into their little bodies among numerous other horrendous reasons. Abstinence or hysterectomy are the only 100% way to go, and no dr will take out a health uterus (thank God!) and most young, healthy, loving, married couples cannot choose abstinence even if they tried. And no one thinks they SHOULD be abstinent because they are a married couple and that is part of their vocation. Of course there would be reasons, but I don’t think poverty is one of those reasons.