Help me understand - What is a Charismatic Catholic

[Tis_Bearself]

“Charismatic Catholic Renewal” is the name of the movement that currently is associated with the vast majority of people calling themselves “Charismatic Catholics.”

Sure, you can be a “Charismatic Catholic” in the sense of being filled with the Spirit without joining a movement, but I never see anyone in the Church using the term “Charismatic Catholic” except in connection with CCR folks. It’s a bit of a loaded term.

 

[tifischer]

Maybe not all Carismatic Catholics participate in the Charismatic Renewal.

 

[Brendan_64]

So a suitable Seminar is indeed very helpful.

I would suggest that it is a good idea to get hold of any booklet or book that is to accompany the course. Read it carefully and decide if it is for you. If you don’t feel comfortable with what you read, bear in mind that this is where the course is going and make your mind up from a position of knowledge.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s highly likely that some of them don’t. Maybe they don’t even call themselves “Charismatic”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There are some trend, or formula if you like, how we can receive the Holy Spirit. It is knowledge about God. That is why if you are already a mature and devoted Christian, you do not need it, because you have all the tools and a life that is able to receive the Holy Spirit. Like Jesus said, he comes not for the healthy but the sick.

And remember, many of the participants are from all work of life and may be just nominal Catholics or Sunday Christians and nothing more, let alone properly catechised themselves.

The Seminar will prepare the participants with the relevant knowledge (teachings) about God and what the Holy Spirit can do and who He is. From experience, Catholics know about the First and Second Person of the Holy Trinity, but very little about the Holy Spirit. This sometimes include the clergy, depending on their formation, training and experience.

So a suitable Seminar is indeed very helpful.

I found one online that appears to be in full Communion with Rome (and does not accept donations, which to me is a plus). It’s true that maybe one misses out on the “community” aspect by simply watching online, but if you’re the type who has trouble making time to go out to a six-week seminar and already are a “mature and devoted Christian” who has an ongoing relationship with Jesus, then something like this might work just fine for you.

LIFE IN THE SPIRIT SEMINAR

A Catholic Lay Apostolate of Healing, specializing in Deliverance Ministry and Spiritual Warfare. (The charism that heals also delivers.)

catholicdeliverance.blogspot.com

 

[tifischer]

Right God is good

 

[GladTidings]

So, for example, I lost a close family member about a year ago and felt the Holy Spirit draw me closer to my faith. I have grown very much and go to confession frequently, help at church, etc. My question is, is this an example of CCR because it involves the Holy Spirit even though I do not attend a parish which has charismatic services?

 

[guanophore]

at what point do people in the CCR begin to lose a craving for the Eucharist?

For me it was the other way around. I was drawn back into the sacramental life through the CCR. But I do know people that have gone the other way. In fact, there was an entire prayer group that gradually drifted away from the Church until they all fell away. It still makes me very sad. The prayer group eventually dissolved, and now all that is left of the building they bought is a thrift store. I pray for them whenever I drive by the spot.

I think situations like this demonstrate how much the people of God need shepherding, and that the desire to connect to our faith experience emotionally is normal, but cannot be the basis of our relationship. If we are not led closer to the sacramental life through any faith practice, then it is not beneficial.

I never went to adoration before I got involved with the Charismatics, and it was they that taught me to love and yearn for quiet time with Jesus.

 

[guanophore]

the charismatics in my local parish raise their hands higher than the priest; it is wrong; it is distracting;

my pastor has told them not to do it

but yet this persists

This is a very strong sign of people going astray. No parishioner should engage in any distraction during the Liturgy, and most especially when they are specifically directed not to do so. Obedience is paramount, even if one does not agree with the directive. I was at a Mass once with a charismatic prayer group. When the consecration came, two of us knelt on the stair. Father asked us to stand “for uniformity”, so we did. These things are not a matter of doctrine, but of discipline, and anyone who is not willing to yield to the pastor is in a state of rebellion!

 

[guanophore]

why do people need a special CCR movement in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

They don’t, but just like all the sacraments, a person can only benefit from the graces poured out in them if they are receptive. In Confirmation, we are sealed with the Spirit and in connection with our baptism, are given gifts to perfect our faith and serve the Body of Christ. What the renewal did for me was teach me how to understand those gifts, unwrap them, and put them to work. I was able to finally connect with the liturgy in a meaningful way that I never did before.

I understand that not everyone needs this in order to reach the goal, but some of us were severed and needed to be reconnected.

This is something freely available to all Catholics, perhaps all Christians.

Yes, but for those who were inadequately catechized, a lot of correction and redirection was needed.

Apart from the special charismatic prayer services and Masses, there’s nothing particularly unique about it.

Every time we pray to God, we’re praying to the Holy Spirit.

Why do we need a special seminar about that?

Not everyone does, but for those of us that do, there is no replacement. God wants all of us to be on fire with the Holy Spirit. Some people need more training and instruction on how this is supposed to happen than others.

 

[guanophore]

I am simply pointing out why people have these misguided notions

Yes, it only takes a few to garner a bad reputation. I notice that none of your outcomes includes that which Prodigal Son describes

But these days, charismatics tend to be reasonably traditional…

In fact, most of the charismatics I know in my area that used to be very effusive have now settled into quiet and devoted parish ministry. They have become sacristans, organizers of adoration, ushers, extraordinary eucharistic ministers, newsletter editors, etc. These outcomes are not any of those you have observed:

I do not see many charismatics acting in these effusive ways nowadays; a lot of the ones who carried on like this in past decades have by now 1) either passed away, 2) found a parish where they can have what they prefer, or 3)simply left the Church.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My comment specifically refers to the “ones who carried on” in the past decades.

I actually see charismatics pretty frequently these days who don’t “carry on”. One of them is the pastor of a large Catholic church near my husband’s hometown. He’s a self-identified charismatic and talks at length about how great he thinks CCR is, but apart from his penchant for giving 45-minute-long wandering homilies, he’s no different from any other average pastor and nothing out of the ordinary is happening at his Masses.

There are also a number of charismatics involved with the Flame of Love devotion to Mary which is huge in Philadelphia area. (You will note that the page I linked with the Life in the Spirit online presentations has a large banner for Flame of Love devotion in the corner of the page.) Some of the large Flame of Love Masses have charismatic elements to them, such as the preaching style of the homilist and/or individualized healing ministry at the end. But other than that, they are normal Masses, and are not really promoted as charismatic events. Flame of Love devotion does include a number of specific prayers for the Holy Spirit to come, so in that sense it’s “charismatic” but not associated specifically with CCR.

 

[guanophore]

The post specifically refers to Carismatic Catholics not Renewal…was this thread was highjacked?

It needed to be. There is no stereotypical “charismatic Catholic”. There is a Renewal, and some people that become involved in it may go off the rails, though the majority are enriched in their faith and grow through some, at times, shallow expressions, into a deeper and quieter, steady faith.

All Christians should have some sense of discernment of the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit…that is to be “charismatic”.

Yes, but not all of us have been adequately instructed and spiritually formed to understand and practice these things. Going to workshops and prayer meetings has helped to understand and experience the gifts and fruits.

It’s a bit of a loaded term.

Yes, this is quite true on many levels. Perhaps the drift away from using the term in parishes will help dispel some of these “loadings”?

Maybe not all Carismatic Catholics participate in the Charismatic Renewal.

Technically, everyone who has been baptized and confirmed has been made ready for the spirit filled life. But for many Catholics (I used to be one), it was like being wired for electricity but the light switch was turned off.

I am no longer active in the “movement” but was quite transformed by it during a time in my life when I really needed that transformation.

is this an example of CCR

It is certainly an example of the work of the Holy Spirit in your life!

ome Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created. And You shall renew the face of the earth.

O, God, who by the light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of the faithful, grant that by the same Holy Spirit we may be truly wise and ever enjoy His consolations, Through Christ Our Lord, Amen.

 

[guanophore]

I actually see charismatics pretty frequently these days who don’t “carry on”.

Oh well this is great news! I would hate to think they all just died off or left the faith!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yes, this is quite true on many levels. Perhaps the drift away from using the term in parishes will help dispel some of these “loadings”?

This may be the case, but it is also making it harder to find actual “charismatic” services and Masses for those of us who would like to check them out and aren’t already connected into the network that promotes them. It took me a while to figure out how to find these services (some diocesan websites have a page) and which parishes offer them on a regular basis (often calling them “Masses of Healing” or something like that).

Sometimes just finding things that are offered within your diocese or within your area is a job in itself, especially since there are so many activities and they are often not described in detail but are simply presented with a statement that it will deepen your relationship with Jesus or help you grow in faith and you have absolutely no idea what is actually going to be happening at the Mass or service or meeting, without doing research or talking to someone who attends.

 

[Brendan_64]

Get hold of their course booklet first. Read it and decide whether or not it fits with you. You can tell a lot about a course from what the course booklet.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I won’t be taking any courses. I’ll probably just watch the stuff on the Youtubes and if it bugs me, as usual I’ll shut it off.

 

[tgGodsway]

In what way is their faith a selfish expression?

 

[guanophore]

misstherese:

Their intentions seem good at first, but there is a danger in seeking special spiritual graces from God. It may cause some to rely on the feeling of God, expecting Him to hand out supernatural graces like Halloween candy.

Yes, I think wanting a closer more vibrant relationship with God is always a good intention, but I don’t think there is any danger in expecting spiritual graces from God or the expectation that He is ready, willing, and able to “hand them out”. He has said that it is His father’s good pleasure to give us the Kingdom, to seek, knock, and desire the best gifts.

Walking in the Spirit is all about walking in grace - constantly. We cannot succeed in discipleship without it, and we need to rely on His grace persistently.

That being said, there is a difference between expecting His grace and mercy to help in time of need and going by “feelings” or expecting “consolations”. All the saints have instructed us that this is not an appropriate practice.

 

[misstherese]

I don’t think we’re on the same page here…It is okay to pray for consolation from God, but then again to depend on it alone can be detrimental. The issue with the Charismatic Renewal is that it’s dependency is on the emotions and without them the worship turns stale. Whereas in a regular mass, the liturgy is the sole aspect worship. Emotions can play a part but they are not the main performer. Consolations are given to those God sees fit to give them to, individually. Too much emphasis on the supernatural aspects of God can also lead others to expect too much from Him, to expect special supernatural graces from Him and then become disappointed when He doesn’t deliver and cause a waver in faith.

Of course I am not entirely knowledgeable about the Charismatic Renewal movement to go further than that; that’s all that I know of it.