Help me understand - What is a Charismatic Catholic

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tgGodsway said:
In what way is their faith a selfish expression?
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Please direct your question to Paradiso.
I do not believe they are “selfish” at all, and my comment is a sarcastic one that is basically criticizing Paradiso’s comment claiming that they are selfish.
As Deacon Jeff pointed out when he posted “sarcasm noted” below my post. I thought I made it clear with the quotes and eye roll, but apparently not.
 
The issue with the Charismatic Renewal is that it’s dependency is on the emotions and without them the worship turns stale.
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Sorry, but this isn’t true. Consolation and desolation is particularly Ignatian language in reference to the spiritual life (though other traditions use those, or similar, terms). Whether one is “charismatic” or not has no bearing on how one views these things, assuming, of course, that the person is well-schooled in the spiritual life. I know plenty of “non-charismatic” Catholics who rely solely on nice happy consolations in their spiritual life. On the other hand, I know many charismatics who are quite well-schooled in the Ignatian exercises, as well as his rules for the discernment of spirits. (I’m thinking primarily of his first set of 14 rules here for use in the first week of the Spiritual Exercises.)

No disrespect meant of course, but it’s an oversimplification to suggest that all charismatics are solely concerned about receiving consolations in prayer. That mentality is common among almost all beginners in the spiritual life, whether the person considers him or herself “charismatic” or not.

As I said above, I would argue that anyone who takes his or her faith seriously is “charismatic,” including Ignatius, Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, etcetera. Being charismatic can find outward expression in the nine charismatic gifts, but it’s more an internal disposition of recognizing that we are A) children of God, B) redeemed by Him, and C) that the Holy Spirit dwells within us. It’s a sad state of affairs that has so distorted authentic movements of the Holy Spirit as to convince so many that they are not of God, or are somehow opposed to authentic liturgical worship. Such is surely not the work of the good spirit (to paraphrase Ignatius’ rules).

Edit I should have an addendum. Yes, in common, everyday parlance, “charismatic” refers to people who are particularly open to, and manifest, the nine charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit.
 
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St. Teresa of Avila spoke of consolations in a similar manner as the way I’m using it. My point still stands. What makes the Charismatic mass different is the emotions taking stage. Without the emotions in such a mass, it would not be a Charismatic mass. It is an important aspect in that type of mass. Now if one strictly attends such a mass or goes to such prayer groups and often would weep and speak in tongues and feel strong emotion were to suddenly feel dried up, that could cause someone to become confused. They may start to think God is not present in their lives because they can’t feel Him. I’m not saying every Charismatic Catholic is like that, but I can easily see how one could fall into that trap.

I’m gonna unsubscribe to this thread now because I don’t really want to argue any further. God bless.
 
A long time ago I heard from the priest that the practice of prayer in other tongues, which is practiced by Pentecostals was born in a Catholic environment, does any body knows where and when it happened?
 
We have marianprayer groups which are charismatic ie they have speaking in tongues it’s not me but I keep getting asked along and feel bit guilty because they are such nice people. I do kinda like most of it which includes Eucharistic adoration but the praying in tongues bit I don’t know, I prefer mass nd really don’t see much need for anything else, and really don’t like people saying coming and receive his spirit when we already do because we have the mass which is the summit of our faith.
 
Terrend said:
Share what makes a person a Charismatic catholic and what some of the culture would be like. Thanks.

If you can state below if you consider yourself a traditional or a more modern catholic as well.

Blessings!
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Excellent topic. I planned on asking my father what a Charismatic Catholic was since after he returned to the Church, he said he was a Charismatic Catholic under the Byzantine Rite.

Sadly, he passed away before he could tell me what it was.
 
GladTidings said:
So, for example, I lost a close family member about a year ago and felt the Holy Spirit draw me closer to my faith. I have grown very much and go to confession frequently, help at church, etc. My question is, is this an example of CCR because it involves the Holy Spirit even though I do not attend a parish which has charismatic services?
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Hi. You may experience the Holy Spirit moving in you. You may not necessaary be in the CCR if you do not follow their movement or activities and spirituality. What it means, anyone can receive the Holy Spirit and moved by Him and be ardent Catholic.

There are people who have the impression that the people in the CCR claim that they have the sole possession of the Holy Spirit, which of course is not true.

What whappened in the CCR, it helps to release the Holy Spirit in us for us to change and have power (as is promised by Jesus about the Holy Spirit). This is for people who come to the CCR and using their tools, so to speak, which is available in most parishes today, maybe not in some regions but more in others.

God bless.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
My comment specifically refers to the “ones who carried on” in the past decades.

I actually see charismatics pretty frequently these days who don’t “carry on”. One of them is the pastor of a large Catholic church near my husband’s hometown. He’s a self-identified charismatic and talks at length about how great he thinks CCR is, but apart from his penchant for giving 45-minute-long wandering homilies, he’s no different from any other average pastor and nothing out of the ordinary is happening at his Masses.

There are also a number of charismatics involved with the Flame of Love devotion to Mary which is huge in Philadelphia area. (You will note that the page I linked with the Life in the Spirit online presentations has a large banner for Flame of Love devotion in the corner of the page.) Some of the large Flame of Love Masses have charismatic elements to them, such as the preaching style of the homilist and/or individualized healing ministry at the end. But other than that, they are normal Masses, and are not really promoted as charismatic events. Flame of Love devotion does include a number of specific prayers for the Holy Spirit to come, so in that sense it’s “charismatic” but not associated specifically with CCR.
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CCR comes in various forms. Yes, they can be part of the CCR. I have seen many groupings who would join a national or international Charismatic Conferences and their charism is very much Marian. Again, the keyword is the Renewal.

And this brings us back to where many people who are outside the CCR who think that the CCR are people who speak in tongue only. LOL. Of course, which is not.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
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guanophore:
Yes, this is quite true on many levels. Perhaps the drift away from using the term in parishes will help dispel some of these “loadings”?
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This may be the case, but it is also making it harder to find actual “charismatic” services and Masses for those of us who would like to check them out and aren’t already connected into the network that promotes them. It took me a while to figure out how to find these services (some diocesan websites have a page) and which parishes offer them on a regular basis (often calling them “Masses of Healing” or something like that).

Sometimes just finding things that are offered within your diocese or within your area is a job in itself, especially since there are so many activities and they are often not described in detail but are simply presented with a statement that it will deepen your relationship with Jesus or help you grow in faith and you have absolutely no idea what is actually going to be happening at the Mass or service or meeting, without doing research or talking to someone who attends.
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I am not sure in your diocese. The body that oversee the CCR activities officially is the Diocese Service Team at the diocese level, and National Service Team at the national level. Maybe you can check that out , if there is any in your diocese.

If not, then it has become inactive where probably most movements in the diocese have some origin by people who already experienced the CCR but not involved, say, in the Charismatic prayer groups.

Perhaps, those CCR movements which are more obvious are your local prayer group or Covenant Community, if you have them in your diocese.

We were told by a priest in the CCR long ago that once the Church is renewed, the CCR would become less and less prominent in itself as the movement of the Holy Spirit is being felt by all the Church.

God bless.
 
Thank you for your reply. Well said! With that said,
Peace be with you Paradiso.
 
It’s interesting that we had this discussion today. I went to a special evening Mass tonight celebrated by a pastor whose fairly subdued weeknight evening regular Mass I sometimes attend because it’s held in a very old Chapel and his homilies are good and he is a fan of various old devotions that I also like. Within a half hour of arriving I got to see a new side of this holy priest as he spoke in tongues from the pulpit and exhorted folks to raise their arms high. I guess I am not too surprised as his church does seem to have fairly regular charismatic prayer services and healing Masses, I just wasn’t expecting that.
 
Wow. I guess the parish is quite liberal to allow that. Here in our diocese, after a full implementation of the GIRM, the mass is rather standardised, so we would not expect any exception in all public masses for the parish.

I just can imagine him liking the various devotions which is something to be found in those who are renewed by the Holy Spirit. I am not surprised about his good homilies, which seems to be one area they improved much on.

Apparently he likes tongue though and is open enough to do that in the mass. As long as he does not create problem with the other hierarchies by doing that.

God bless.
 
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I’ve noticed he marches a bit to his own drummer. He is an elderly priest and has obviously been around a long time. In any event, he doesn’t do it at the regular Mass on weekdays or at the one or two Sunday masses I’ve been to, so it must be something he only does when he has a congregation that are likely to be receptive. He had a completely full house for the special Mass so I can’t see anyone from the archdiocese bothering him about it when he is packing the church on a Tuesday night with snow predicted.
 
It seems however that the statements by Popes JPII and Benedict that Reuben_J posted go beyond just a “kind word” and suggest that CCR is something beneficial and necessary to the Church.
 
That does not mean that the Papal Office has granted a seal of approval, though.
 
The Preacher to the Papal Household is not infallible, he may hold opinions and that is his prerogative.

Popes have said nice things about the CCR. I never denied that.

Still, not a “seal of approval for ‘insert innovation’”.
 
There have been other highly esteemed groups that were embraced by Popes only to later come to an end in a bad way.

(For instance, Legionaries of Christ).

I go back to the question I always ask, are the Sacraments not sufficient and why was this great gift of tongues withheld from the Church for 1600 ish years?
 
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