Help Me With JWs, Guys? :P

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MrZetterlund

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So I had a couple of JWs come over for a two-hour Bible fury-thon. 😃 It was a pretty interesting day. I never had the JW (let alone TWO,) be the one to say “Alright, alright, we gotta go!” I was all over it on the divinity of Christ verses, the Catholic verses in reference to purgatory, the Eucharist, Confession, etc.

Anyone want to help me out for round two? 😃 Just heap up some verses, evidence for doctrines, etc. They seem really caught on the whole “no war” thing. One of them said “the Catholic Church has been in bed with more politicians than ANY organization in the world!” (Lol, THAT makes me want to be a JW.) :rolleyes: He was like, “They bless their troops and tell them what they’re doing is the will of GOD!” Oh boy… :o

Anyway, I have a plan to keep our next meeting more… “Charitable.” 😛
Proof & tips are appreciated, God Bless!! 👍
 
The few we’ve had come to our door just leave after I tell them we are Catholic (the crucifix on the wall behind the door also didn’t seem to encourage them to stay either).
 
Armyvet007 said:
The few we’ve had come to our door just leave after I tell them we are Catholic (the crucifix on the wall behind the door also didn’t seem to encourage them to stay either).
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Lol, our first encounter was when they took advantage of a yard sale event in our neighborhood to prostulate thruout our neighborhood. When they got to my house they wouldn’t leave my parents alone who were out front, so my mom said, “Hey, could you excuse me for a second? I want you to meet my son…” and she ran into the house and got me and I argued them out of my yard!! 😃
 
Sounds like you did better than I ever could! I couldn’t get past their reason for not celebrating Birthdays and their fear of paganism!:confused:
 
I used to date a JW one; however my information on them is dated. One book I recommend on them is one from a former high leader of the JWs called Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz (link below) which is a bit old and there is a newer one by one of the CA members (can’t recall name).

They are a tough nut to crack because their church really takes up all their time outside of work; their church is really their whole world. They spend a lot of time going over the materials the Watchtower provides. You can usually draw with them, becuase they want to get their obligations over with.

barnesandnoble.com/w/crisis-of-conscience-raymond-franz/1001078782?ean=9780914675242&itm=8&usri=crises+of+consience

God Bless,
 
mwok said:
Sounds like you did better than I ever could! I couldn’t get past their reason for not celebrating Birthdays and their fear of paganism!:confused:
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Lol, I know… I thought it was ridiculous, even as a Protestant, that ANYONE in Christianity, Judaism or Islam is accused of idolatry. :rolleyes: I just said, “Lol, you know Jesus’ birthay was celebrated, right?” Then they said “Do you want me to go back and show you how that was a genocidal death-plot?!” :rolleyes:
maximus said:
I used to date a JW one; however my information on them is dated. One book I recommend on them is one from a former high leader of the JWs called Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz (link below) which is a bit old and there is a newer one by one of the CA members (can’t recall name).

They are a tough nut to crack because their church really takes up all their time outside of work; their church is really their whole world. They spend a lot of time going over the materials the Watchtower provides. You can usually draw with them, becuase they want to get their obligations over with.

barnesandnoble.com/w/crisis-of-conscience-raymond-franz/1001078782?ean=9780914675242&itm=8&usri=crises+of+consience

God Bless,
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Hey, I heard of this book! Thanks, God bless… 😉
 
Have you tried telling them that Jehovah is a misreading of YHWH? They may not know it but the word was originally an only consonant affair as other Hebrew words in the past were written. When the Hebrews decided to write also the vowels they wrote the vowels below to keep the literary tradition hence it came to be written as YaHWeH (with the vowels below).
Hebrews or Jews then and now are forbidden to pronounce the word because they consider it the name of God. (This is a Semitic practice) They would not allow it pronounced even by non-Jews. Whenever they see it in the Sacred Scriptures, they would read it aDoNaI. (ADONAI)
Careless readers and foreigners still pronounced the word and so they decided to write it with the consonants but with vowels of aDoNaI in order to serve as reminder that it must be pronounced aDoNaI. It therefore appeared as YaHoVaH which must be pronounced aDoNaI.
Someone chanced on reading it that way and concluded that the name of God was JAHOVAH and consequently founded a movement, later Church, which he called Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I illustrated this with some youngsters of nineteen to twenty-five years old and they told me that it opened their eyes. I later saw some of them getting baptized in our Parish Church. Our Parish Priest, of course, had a big hand in their conversion.
 
Restrict them to the catechism. It is a canard to look at behaviors of Church members, rather than teachings. If we looked only at the behavior of the twelve, why be Christian at all? The catechism states the foundation of Christian belief. And that is where they fall flat on their faces. They have swallowed the private interpretation of one man, and have bet their eternity that he was right. They have no foundation. It matters not one whit what other things they believe - their founder had no more authority to teach than you or I.
 
roads152 said:
Have you tried telling them that Jehovah is a misreading of YHWH? They may not know it but the word was originally an only consonant affair as other Hebrew words in the past were written. When the Hebrews decided to write also the vowels they wrote the vowels below to keep the literary tradition hence it came to be written as YaHWeH (with the vowels below).
Hebrews or Jews then and now are forbidden to pronounce the word because they consider it the name of God. (This is a Semitic practice) They would not allow it pronounced even by non-Jews. Whenever they see it in the Sacred Scriptures, they would read it aDoNaI. (ADONAI)
Careless readers and foreigners still pronounced the word and so they decided to write it with the consonants but with vowels of aDoNaI in order to serve as reminder that it must be pronounced aDoNaI. It therefore appeared as YaHoVaH which must be pronounced aDoNaI.
Someone chanced on reading it that way and concluded that the name of God was JAHOVAH and consequently founded a movement, later Church, which he called Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I illustrated this with some youngsters of nineteen to twenty-five years old and they told me that it opened their eyes. I later saw some of them getting baptized in our Parish Church. Our Parish Priest, of course, had a big hand in their conversion.
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Lol, I brought that up, actually. They argued that “Hebrew didn’t have vowels in their alphabet.” C’MON!! I knew the Aleph-Bet’ had the ALEPH!!! (A-sound) for crying out loud… :rolleyes:
 
po18guy said:
Restrict them to the catechism. It is a canard to look at behaviors of Church members, rather than teachings. If we looked only at the behavior of the twelve, why be Christian at all? The catechism states the foundation of Christian belief. And that is where they fall flat on their faces. They have swallowed the private interpretation of one man, and have bet their eternity that he was right. They have no foundation. It matters not one whit what other things they believe - their founder had no more authority to teach than you or I.
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What does it say about wars and stuff? :hmmm: I personally don’t find nothing wrong with a well intentioned beaver-war (so long as there’s no political corruption.) HAH! Doesn’t exist!! :cool:
 
I enjoy a good discussion with JWs but I always talk about evolution with them.
 
MrZetterlund said:
What does it say about wars and stuff? :hmmm: I personally don’t find nothing wrong with a well intentioned beaver-war (so long as there’s no political corruption.) HAH! Doesn’t exist!! :cool:
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They are relentless in their membership drives, as a result of pressure from the WBATS (Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society) headquarters. Each local group must submit monthly activity reports to the WBATS headquarters.

As their conversion weapon of choice, they focus on such non-issues as the prior bad behavior of Catholic leadership. Wars? Jesus said that wars must come to pass. Do they even have a point?

What will also stop them dead in their tracks is the WBATS history of 100% failed prophecies. Recent media laughingstock Harold Camping is a piker compared to the JWs. They have a litany of failed prophecies. Since absolutely nothing that the WBATS have predicted has ever happened, they exist solely for the purpose of increasing members.

Remind them that the Catholic Church has no failed prophecies - because it offers no such nonsense!
 
Hokomai said:
I enjoy a good discussion with JWs but I always talk about evolution with them.
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Lol, I always avoid this subject by not letting them know I’m a fundamentalist. I’m afraid my acceptance of the theory of evolution would be too incrimidating. 😃
po18guy said:
They are relentless in their membership drives, as a result of pressure from the WBATS (Watch Tower Bible And Tract Society) headquarters. Each local group must submit monthly activity reports to the WBATS headquarters.

As their conversion weapon of choice, they focus on such non-issues as the prior bad behavior of Catholic leadership. Wars? Jesus said that wars must come to pass. Do they even have a point?

What will also stop them dead in their tracks is the WBATS history of 100% failed prophecies. Recent media laughingstock Harold Camping is a piker compared to the JWs. They have a litany of failed prophecies. Since absolutely nothing that the WBATS have predicted has ever happened, they exist solely for the purpose of increasing members.

Remind them that the Catholic Church has no failed prophecies - because it offers no such nonsense!
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Personally, I don’t think there’s any reason to even get into it. All they’ll do is DENY, DENY, DENY. Honestely I don’t think they’re worth the effort at all. They’re so one-sided that whenever I meantioned Jesus’ birth being celebrated it turned into a genocidal plot!
I told them that honestely I felt uncomfortable having another First and Last, Wonderful Councelor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, “I AM” Alpha and Omega other than GOD. I pointed out how he was worshipped thruout the Scriptures by people comming to him for help and they said “Oh, they just bowed down and kissed his feet, it’s not really worship.” :confused: WHO ELSE WOULD I DO THAT TO OTHER THAN GOD???
 
MrZetterlund said:
Personally, I don’t think there’s any reason to even get into it. All they’ll do is DENY, DENY, DENY. Honestely I don’t think they’re worth the effort at all. They’re so one-sided that whenever I meantioned Jesus’ birth being celebrated it turned into a genocidal plot! I told them that honestely I felt uncomfortable having another First and Last, Wonderful Councelor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, “I AM” Alpha and Omega other than GOD. I pointed out how he was worshipped thruout the Scriptures by people comming to him for help and they said “Oh, they just bowed down and kissed his feet, it’s not really worship.” :confused: WHO ELSE WOULD I DO THAT TO OTHER THAN GOD???
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I make sure that they hear “You have been horribly mislead” several times. Their spiel sounds effective until you realize that they are shooting blanks.
 
My recommendation would be to focus on the entire chapter of John 6 - Jesus’ actual Body and Blood. First 1/2 of the Chapter teaches the “how” Jesus’ Body could still to this day be received by us and in the Second 1/2 of the Chapter Jesus teaches clearly that gave us His own Body and Blood and that we MUST receive it or we will not have Life in us.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
My recommendation would be to focus on the entire chapter of John 6 - Jesus’ actual Body and Blood. First 1/2 of the Chapter teaches the “how” Jesus’ Body could still to this day be received by us and in the Second 1/2 of the Chapter Jesus teaches clearly that gave us His own Body and Blood and that we MUST receive it or we will not have Life in us.
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Lol, I went there. And if they try and interprit it figuritively then you can hit them with 1 CORINTHIANS 11:29!! :nunchuk:
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
My recommendation would be to focus on the entire chapter of John 6 - Jesus’ actual Body and Blood. First 1/2 of the Chapter teaches the “how” Jesus’ Body could still to this day be received by us and in the Second 1/2 of the Chapter Jesus teaches clearly that gave us His own Body and Blood and that we MUST receive it or we will not have Life in us.
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In John 6:60-61 we see that there were many of Jesus’ disciples who had a difficult time understanding what Jesus was saying. Here we see Jesus’ response in v.61, “does this make you stumble/offend you” he says. Then in John 6:66 we see that from this time forward many of Jesus’ disciples left and did not follow Jesus from that point forward.

If Jesus’ vast description of the Body/Blood from v. 32 - 58 was meant to be taken figuratively, then he is not doing a very good job of stating that is the case. We see several times during the gospels where Jesus is accused of something that is not true (eg: casting out Demons with the power of the Devil,) and he immediately sets the Jews straight about their false accusations. After this very lengthy/detailed description in John 6, we ultimately see that disciples that believed in him as the Messiah, chose to stop listening and following Jesus after his explanation of the Body and Blood.

If Jesus’ words were supposed to “symbolize” the elements at the last supper that was to come, he had an excellent opportunity to prevent these disciples from leaving him since they were of course taking his statements literally. Since Jesus is all knowing and knows these men in their hearts, he knows that these men aren’t just merely walking away from him as he was teaching this in the synagogue, but they lost their faith in Jesus. These are men who were turned away from the Messiah after hearing Jesus’ words in John 6, which ultimately puts their salvation at risk.

Of course when we look to the last supper, we see that Greek word “estin” being used which is always translated as **“is.” ** If you have a copy of their Kingdom Interlinear Translation you will see that in the orginal greek of the text the JW’s agree that the word “estin” translates as “is” in English. If you look at their NWT they change this word to “means” to fit their predetermined belief that the Body and Blood is a mere symbol, and not the actual Body and Blood of Christ.
 
Have you read some of the tracts and ‘quick question’ answers about them on this website? Just type in Jehovah’s witnesses in the search bar on the home page
 
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