Help! My convert Wife needs help with MARY!

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dizzy_dave

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My wife is a convert to Catholicism. One evening she was reading a 1955 booklet “Mary’s morning minute” on page 28 for August 31st it says - “Just as no one can approach the almighty Father except through his son, so no one, so to speak can approach Christ but through his mother.” -Leo XIII
So my wifes question is this, she said I thought you could go directly to God for prayer, etc., this seems to suggest Mary to Jesus then to the Father, then why do we pray the Our Father if he can’t hear it since it’s not going through Mary? Why not bypass her and go right to Jesus or the Father? I tried to explain the Mediatrix of all graces and the coredemption but for her being a Former protestant (Baptist) the Mary thing is a stumbling block as it is with most non-Catholics, I also am getting re-interested in my faith so I’m having a hard time explaining it in a way that will make sense to her, I’m not even sure how well I understand it. Are there any good books that will clearly explain these? We have the Catholic Answers book Meeting Mary but it wasn’t enough to answer the questions she had. Can anyone explain this in a better way than I did? Thank you. :confused:
 
Maybe the following anology will help.

According to the World Book Encyclopedia, the “Cumberland Gap is a natural pass in the Appalachian Mountains, near the meeting point of Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia. The gap cuts a notch about 600 feet … deep into Cumberland Mountain. … In 1775, the famous pioneer Daniel Boone blazed the Wilderness Road through the gap. Between 1775 and 1800, about 200,000 people passed through the gap.”

Original Sin is like the Appalachian Mountains, a barrier between us and God. Jesus Christ, by his obedient death on the Cross, is like the Cumberland Gap, the only way to the Father. The Blessed Virgin Mary is like Daniel Boone, the trailblazer. With her humble and obedient, “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word,” Mary was the first to accept Jesus as Lord; she is the trailblazer for all who go to the Father through Jesus. All who go to the Father through Jesus use the road blazed by Mary.
 
Well, of course your prayers go directly to God. It is not as if Mary slows you down, or insists on being payed homage before you move on. Mary, rather, provides greater availability. It was God’s gracious Will to rebuild the freeway to Himself. Where Adam and Eve gave us our desire to follow our own wills–ripping out the roadway–Jesus and Mary show us to the desire to follow the Will of God unequivocally. Mary is no stumbling block. By the Will of God, she is a conduit of all graces. Read Mary’s Magnificat (Luke’s gospel) and you’ll know that she is someone who will not let you dally at her knee except to speed you on more quickly to God. With her, it is always first, last, and foremost about God. By her example, you will see that God intends to make you a saint, as well, so that those who meet you will also be sped on to God more quickly than if they had never met you. That is what the Church is for.

Why not go “directly” to God? Because Mary, by her humility, by her willingness to always say only “yes!” to God, will help you to get yourself out of the way. To reject that help is an act of pride that you cannot afford… for the only stumbling block that will ever get between you and God is you.
 
Explain to her that Mary is like a goddess, but not really… and more powerful.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
Well, of course your prayers go directly to God. It is not as if Mary slows you down, or insists on being payed homage before you move on. Mary, rather, provides greater availability. It was God’s gracious Will to rebuild the freeway to Himself. Where Adam and Eve gave us our desire to follow our own wills–ripping out the roadway–Jesus and Mary show us to the desire to follow the Will of God unequivocally. Mary is no stumbling block. By the Will of God, she is a conduit of all graces. Read Mary’s Magnificat (Luke’s gospel) and you’ll know that she is someone who will not let you dally at her knee except to speed you on more quickly to God. With her, it is always first, last, and foremost about God. By her example, you will see that God intends to make you a saint, as well, so that those who meet you will also be sped on to God more quickly than if they had never met you. That is what the Church is for.

Why not go “directly” to God? Because Mary, by her humility, by her willingness to always say only “yes!” to God, will help you to get yourself out of the way. To reject that help is an act of pride that you cannot afford… for the only stumbling block that will ever get between you and God is you.
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A problem with that second paragraph, is that there is no clear support for it in Scripture. St.Paul’s description of the Christian’s access to God is this:​

Eph 2.17 [Christ] came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

**Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. **

**Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, **

Eph 2:20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone,

Eph 2:21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord;

Eph 2:22 in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

This passage is the conclusion of a long argument, which begins in chapter 1.

The emphasised words insist that Jews & Gentiles come to God on exactly the same conditions. How ? Through Christ, by [or: in] the Spirit, to the Father. Why should the individual Christian come to God in any different way ? Our access to God is through God, and in God, to God - Mary is , as far as Scripture goes, simply not involved. She is a Saint, but she is not a mediator in any sense that all Christians are not also mediators. We can have no other way to God, than God has supplied. 🙂 Mary is not being wronged - God is being obeyed. We come to God on God’s terms - not ours: pride is not involved here, at all. 🙂

With all possible respect to Mary, I can’t see any solid Scriptural basis for St.Louis de Montfort’s doctrine of a “mediator with the Mediator”. Theological formulations, no matter how ingenious, even those of Saints, cannot trump what the inspired writers say - still less overshadow them. ##
 
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dizzy_dave:
My wife is a convert to Catholicism. One evening she was reading a 1955 booklet “Mary’s morning minute” on page 28 for August 31st it says - “Just as no one can approach the almighty Father except through his son, so no one, so to speak can approach Christ but through his mother.” -Leo XIII
So my wifes question is this, she said I thought you could go directly to God for prayer, etc., this seems to suggest Mary to Jesus then to the Father, then why do we pray the Our Father if he can’t hear it since it’s not going through Mary?
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What Leo XIII means I think is that everything we receive from God is received through the intercession of Mary. So Mary cooperates in every imparting of a gift of God. That doesn’t mean that you have to explicitly ask Mary for her intercession each time you pray. It’s enough to ask God.

It would be like if in a family every time the father of the family gives a gift to his children the mother of the family is involved. Maybe she discusses the gift with the father or goes and purchases it after the father has made the decision to buy the gift. A child in that family can just ask his father for a gift even though the mother is always involved in the giving of the gift. And the child could also of course just ask his mother for a gift even though the father is always also involved in the giving of the gift. I’m not sure if that’s the best analogy 🙂
Why not bypass her and go right to Jesus or the Father?
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I think we have freedom to pray to Mary or God. It may be sometimes better to also ask Mary for her intercession in addition to directly asking God because Mary may have more influence over God than we do since she is the mother of God 🙂 and certainly two people pleading at the throne of God can’t be worse than one person pleading at the throne of God.
 
Try St Louis de Montfort’s Secrets of Mary or True Devotion of Mary. 👍
 
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PXseeker:
Explain to her that Mary is like a goddess, but not really… and more powerful.
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What is a goddess? Someone worshipped, someone given sacrifice, someone who speaks on her own behalf.

Who is the Virgin Mary? Someone venerated for God’s sake, who speaks on the behalf of us sinners in front of the throne of God. Someone chosen to bear the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sins of the world.

Yes, Mary is more powerful than all the pagan gods and goddesses, because they are not real, and she is. The myths are true, to an extent, but instead of a goddess who speaks for herself, we have the handmaid of the Lord whose “Fiat” overturned idols, and crushed the Evil One. Likewise shall we all be, if we follow the path of God, shown to us by His Mother.

In Christ,

The Augustinian
 
You most certainly can pray directly to God and I don’t believe it is an act of pride to do so. But Mary can definitely help you cover all the bases because she knows God better than we do. I direct my prayers as the spirit moves me, sometimes it is to the Father, sometimes it is directly to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and sometimes it is to Jesus through Mary with the Rosary.

If your wife is having a hard time with Marian theology, you could suggest she pray to Jesus for understanding and increased devotion to his Blessed Mother. She can also ask Mary for the same thing 🙂
 
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BLB_Oregon:
Well, of course your prayers go directly to God. It is not as if Mary slows you down, or insists on being payed homage before you move on. Mary, rather, provides greater availability. It was God’s gracious Will to rebuild the freeway to Himself. Where Adam and Eve gave us our desire to follow our own wills–ripping out the roadway–Jesus and Mary show us to the desire to follow the Will of God unequivocally. Mary is no stumbling block. By the Will of God, she is a conduit of all graces. Read Mary’s Magnificat (Luke’s gospel) and you’ll know that she is someone who will not let you dally at her knee except to speed you on more quickly to God. With her, it is always first, last, and foremost about God. By her example, you will see that God intends to make you a saint, as well, so that those who meet you will also be sped on to God more quickly than if they had never met you. That is what the Church is for.

Why not go “directly” to God? Because Mary, by her humility, by her willingness to always say only “yes!” to God, will help you to get yourself out of the way. To reject that help is an act of pride that you cannot afford… for the only stumbling block that will ever get between you and God is you.
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posted by pxseeker
Explain to her that Mary is like a goddess, but not really… and more powerful [endquote]

do not explain any such thing, it is not true. Mary is human, Mary is not a goddess, Mary is not the “feminine side of the divinity”, Mary is not a pagan goddess appropriated by Christians. Mary is human. Because she is human, Jesus took on her humanity when he was conceived in her womb by the power of the Holy Spirit and born in the natural way. If she were not human, Jesus would not be fully human as well as fully divine, doctrine which has been defined and defended through several early church councils, transmitted from the apostles and to speak otherwise is to embrace ancient heresy and modern new age goofiness. Mary is not an icon of power, she is an icon of humility and perfect acceptance of God’s will.
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I don’t understand the term “…greater availability” (through Mary). Veneration is one thing but to consider Mary as a precursor to my relationship and communication with God? I understand and accept all the titles and credentials officially bestowed on Mary by the Church however, some of what is practiced and considered to be authentic Catholic teaching is nothing more than an effort by some to deify Mary. I think it’s important that the originator of this thread make sure that all the information he passes along to his wife regarding Mary be substantiated by Church documentation. There are a lot of crazies out there folks!
 
MrS4ntA wrote: “Try St Louis de Montfort’s Secrets of Mary or True Devotion of Mary.”

Actually, for someone who is a convert from Protestantism and is having difficulty with Marian doctrines, I would NOT recommend those books. They are marvelous for someone who understands the role Mary plays and wishes to more deeply understand and appreciate that role, but I would think that the more flowery language used in that period might be off-putting to someone who is struggling with the idea of Marian devotion. I would suggest going to Catholic.com and printing out some of the shorter articles having to do with the usual misunderstandings of Mary by Protestants. They should answer most of her questions.
 
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PXseeker:
Explain to her that Mary is like a goddess, but not really… and more powerful.
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Don’t mean to criticize, but I don’t think that’s very helpful. Not only is it NOT Catholic teaching, it’s the surest way to drive away a non-Catholic Christian.

If you mean to say such things tongue-in-cheek, better give some indication of it.
 
To “pray to” Mary is to ask for her help.

Mary is Our Lady, the Most Holy and Most Pure Mother of God and we love her. We sing her praises because her yes meant the beginning of our salvation.

We do have a right to pray directly to God as Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or just as God. Many Catholics (millions actually) do just that, and have minimal recourse to Mary. There is nothing wrong with that approach. But it drives a lot of people nuts.

Try praying the Liturgy of the Hours, most of the Prayers are to the Triune God directly in one nature or another, and some prayers are specifically to Mary asking for her intercession with her son the Word. Praying to God directly is a fundamental basis of the pre-eminent prayer of the church (behind the Liturgy, of course)!

A great many traditional Catholics are disturbed that devotion to Mary has waned a bit over the years, but it ebbs and flows with the times. You will see a lot of claims that the Son is unapproachable except through His mother. That is a theological opinion, not dogma.

Post-Apostolic revelation is not binding upon us. One is not even required to believe in any of the many approved revelations of Mary, including the most popular such as Fatima, Lourdes and Guadalupe! The reason for this is that there is no absolute proof that they are genuine so even the church must concede the possibility (as remote as that is) that they are not true. But it is usually the result of these Marian apparitions that most people have developed an intense devotion to Our Lady.

So while it is possible to be a good Catholic and not ask for her intercession, most Catholics would wonder why not.

It is a commonplace for Catholics to pray for each other, and for special needs.

We believe in the communion of Saints, and we believe that the Saints can and do intercede on our behalf. We believe that God approves of this expression of Love. We believe that Mary is the most effective of intercessors because of her unique relationship with the Lord.

But like I said, the idea that Jesus in unapproachable except through His mother is a theological opinion, a popular school of thought, and not a dogma.
 
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PXseeker:
Explain to her that Mary is like a goddess, but not really… and more powerful.
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It can’t be made too clear that Mary is absolutely not a goddess. She is Queen of Heaven not because she somehow joined the Godhead, but because she is the first among the disciples, a peerless model for all Christians. She alone among all the disciples lived as Jesus did:

“… he did not deem equality with God something to be grasped at. Rather, he emptied himself and took the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of men.” (Phil. 2:6b)

The power of Mary lies in the power God has placed in her to get us to Him. She will always help you to humble yourself and approach God in reverence, trust, and love. As the gospel said on Sunday, “Those who humble themselves will be exalted.” She is the epitome of that ideal. Her incredible power lies entirely in her absolute and unwavering submission to the Grace and Will of God.
 
Dizzy_Dave,

As a former Protestant myself, I can attest to the difficulty that Marian dogma and devotion poses for the convert. After all, we are taught since childhood that we have a “direct relationship” with Jesus and we don’t need anything or anyone to get in the way of that relationship.

In all actuality, though, this is a radically different approach than that taken by Catholicism. In the Catholic Church’s teaching, all grace is mediated. In other words, God revealed Himself in and through His Son Jesus Christ; upon His ascension, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit upon His Body, the Church. The Spirit works in and through the Church, making union/communion with God possible through the sacraments.

In other words, I have a personal relation with Jesus through the Church, not in spite of the Church. This is a very different concept than that taught to most evangelical Protestants, where the Church is viewed merely as an assembly of those who a priori have received saving grace. But as a Catholic, I receive saving grace through the Church, the Body of Christ, in the sacraments.

With regard to Mary, she is seen as the exemplar and prototype of the Church. If you read Revelations 12:1-18, you can see how the “woman” referred to can be seen both as the Church (figuratively) and as Mary (literally). If saving grace is mediated through the Church, then it can also be said to be mediated through Mary insofar as she brought Jesus into the world.

Another way that I often explain it is with regard to the relationship between the Head and Body. The Church is the Body of Christ, and Jesus is the Head of the Body. But what connects the Head to the Body? The neck. Everything passes through the neck - air, food, and information from the central nervous system. These things enter the body through the head, and are passed into the body through the neck; in addition, the commands from the head (the brain) pass through the neck into the various members of the body, so that they may carry out the wishes of the head. Seen in this light, Mary is the neck of the Body of Christ, uniting the Body to the Head, through which everything passes.
 
I realize Mary has no power apart from God but can you give me an example of what that power is? Please don’t just define the power, i.e. “…a special communication with her son as the Mother of God” How is the special power Mary possess expressed or manifested other than she has the ear of God moreso than anyone else?
 
Wedding feast of Cana. Mary told Jesus that there was no more wine. He told her it is not yet My time, yet He still turned water into wine. He honors His mothers requests, even unspoken.

p.s.
And it is not so much “special powers” of Mary. It all goes back and comes through Christ. I don’t think you were saying Mary has special powers, but I wanted to clarify for the “unseen” audience.
 
michael servant:
I realize Mary has no power apart from God but can you give me an example of what that power is? Please don’t just define the power, i.e. “…a special communication with her son as the Mother of God” How is the special power Mary possess expressed or manifested other than she has the ear of God moreso than anyone else?
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Consider Mary your ultimate reality check. She is the most powerful woman in the universe. Why? Because she is more buried in God than any woman in the universe. If you resist going through her, it may be because you do not understand what she is. If you do not understand that, it may be because you do not understand what God is asking of you, when you come before His throne.

As little kids, we often say, “I can’t wait to grow up, because then I’ll do whatever I want.” The truth is that growing up means coming to the realization of what it is you are called to do. Mary is the ultimate grown-up. Just as God said, “This is my Beloved Son. Listen to Him”, we believe that putting ourselves under the tutelage of Mary points us in that same direction. Mary is there to give you ears to hear Jesus, and urge you to respond always with “yes.” She questions God only to ask the practical question of how to accomplish what He bids… which is to say that even her questions are just one more way of listening. To give her honor is to hail the direction in which God wants us to head.

If you are lead astray by Marian devotion, it is because you have set an idol up in place of Mary. Again, I say read her Magnificat. For every time you say, “Hail Mary, Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb” she responds with her song of praise that points you to God.

To go to Mary is always to be pointed towards God. That is her unique power. Don’t underestimate it.
 
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