help please

[Thoughtfulone]

Just be honest with them about where you are in your faith right now. If you can do that without getting emotional and turning it into a huge argument, then that would be the best way to handle it. If they start to get upset, just let them know that you understand how they feel but that you have to be honest with them, with God and with yourself.

To tell you the truth, I went through something very similar at your age. I was pulling away from indoctrination and investigating things on my own, which I think can be an important step in one’s spiritual journey. Eventually, I came back, but even now I struggle with some Church issues.

That’s o.k. though. We’re all always learning and asking questions, or we should be. That is the way to true knowledge. This way, if and when you do come back to the Catholic Church, you will do it knowing that you truly believe in it in your heart of hearts and you will remain faithful.

I hope you find what you’re looking for

 

[JRKH]

And I’m gonna leave… seeing as no one has helped with my problem… which I probably should have expected on a Catholic forum see ya

Well just in case you stop back in to see any other posts, let me see if I can help you with your problem…

Basically you are wanting to know how to tell your parents that you don’t accept (never mind believe) the teachings of the Catholic Church and you want other catholics to tell you how to do this… Does that about sum it up??? A fairly odd request I must say…

Sit your parents down, and explain to them that, after careful thought and consideration, you have determined that the Catholic Church is wrong in it’s teachings on X,Y, and Z…etc.
Be be specific ready to explain to them in clear terms how you know the Church is wrong. This way they will know that you are smart, have given this considerable thought and have sound theological reasons for your conclusions. (I assume you have these already)
Now they may ask you to talk to a priest or some other councilor etc, and you should not fear to do so since, if God is truly revealing to you the error of Catholicism, you should be able to, like the Apostles, not be concerned about how you are to answer, but go and the Holy Spirit will give you what you are to say.
Of course if you go to tak to the priest and find that his questions and answers are better than what you can come up with this should give you pause to consider that you might jsut be wrong and 2000 years of doctrinal development just might be right.

I think that the only question left here is whether you still have an open mind on the matter or not.
Your post above would seem to say that you do not.

Peace
James

 

[bibleguy180]

At 16, you are hitting your rebellious years. This is nothing more than a tantrum thrown at authority. I know, I’ve been there. Youth is vanity. Pride is vanity. Hopefully the maturity of years will bring you wisdom to see the error of your vanity.

Domine Iesu, dimitte nobis debita nostra, salva nos ab igne inferiori, perduc in cælum omnes animas, præsertim eas, quæ misericordiæ tuæ maxime indigent. Amen.

This is not a tantrum thrown at authority. This is the result of actually reading and reflecting on the Word of God. Jesus is my authority. The Lord is my Shepard.

 

[snowbee]

Ah but remember the fallacies of every other “church” out there.

You do not have the authority to interpret scripture. We are privileged to read it and reflect on it, but the theological/moral/spiritual conclusion must be drawn from the Successor’s of St. Peter and those Apostles in Communion with him. We rely on the Apostles(bishops) to accurately tell us what is being said in scripture.
The bible has been translated by many people, a phrase meaning what you think it means may not mean what you think it means.
You didn’t write it, you can’t interpret it outside of Church authority. Humility is key in this brother, realize that at 16, how many years you have been studying the bible, and then realize how many inspired men actually wrote those words down and passed the knowledge from one Catholic priest to another. They are our lifeline.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Ah but remember the fallacies of every other “church” out there.

You do not have the authority to interpret scripture. We are privileged to read it and reflect on it, but the theological/moral/spiritual conclusion must be drawn from the Successor’s of St. Peter and those Apostles in Communion with him. We rely on the Apostles(bishops) to accurately tell us what is being said in scripture.
The bible has been translated by many people, a phrase meaning what you think it means may not mean what you think it means.
You didn’t write it, you can’t interpret it outside of Church authority. Humility is key in this brother, realize that at 16, how many years you have been studying the bible, and then realize how many inspired men actually wrote those words down and passed the knowledge from one Catholic priest to another. They are our lifeline.

Agreed. There are so many things that go into interpreting scripture. It was written so many years ago, that the meaning of certain things might not be understood by us. Shakespeare is exactly the same way. I may read a line of Shakespeare and THINK I understand exactly what it means, and then my professor puts it into the context of the time for me and the meaning totally changes.

For example, I was reading Romeo and Juliet and got to the balcony scene where Juliet says, “Romeo, Romeo! Wherefore art thou Romeo?” I of course immediately interpreted this as meaning, “Where are you Romeo?” (since he was not physically present at the time) and moved on. Only later did my professor explain that “wherefore” in Elizabethan English actually means “why”. Juliet is not wondering WHERE Romeo is physically, but rather WHY he was born Romeo Montague, her mortal enemy. She is asking a philosophical question about what makes us who we are and why. Is it a name? Are we merely that which we are called by our parents, or are we something more? What defines us as human beings?

Now, with this interpretation in mind, the text becomes so much more rich, Juliet’s plight so much more poignant. It’s about the eternal quest to define and understand who we are.

Without the knowledge and expertise of my instructor, I would have passed this verse by, and yes, gotten the “gist” of the play (Romeo and Juliet love each other, can’t be together because of their families, kill themselves, The End), but I would have missed so much, the true heart of the play. And that’s just ONE line!

Scripture is the same way. We can read it and enjoy it and get a
lot out of it. We can see parables in terms of our own lives and struggles and apply them. But, to really grasp the full richness of the text and to get to underlying meanings and interpretations, we need to rely on the experts, in this case, the traditions of the Apostles and the knowledge of biblical scholars.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

OK, I have to step in here quickly first off, from what he has said, he isnt giving up ‘God’ but the church. This is alright, from what I have read, nearly half the posters on these forums lost faith for awhile before coming back. The more you try and cling the further that person moves away.

To bibleguy, before I continue, is it the church you question, or do you question the existence of God?

 

[jawgee]

Prayers, Bibleguy180, that God will lead you on your journey.

 

[bibleguy180]

OK, I have to step in here quickly first off, from what he has said, he isnt giving up ‘God’ but the church. This is alright, from what I have read, nearly half the posters on these forums lost faith for awhile before coming back. The more you try and cling the further that person moves away.

To bibleguy, before I continue, is it the church you question, or do you question the existence of God?

I question the church, not God

 

[HumbledCatholic]

bibleguy, READ THIS:

At 16, 17, and 18 I at three separate instances almost left the Catholic Church to become Eastern Orthodox, as I was convinced that the Truth of God lay in that Church, and, as far as my thorough (for a teenager) research could tell, their argument was without any holes (I had several qualms with Catholicism, including the supremacy of Rome & some Marian doctrines, and I thought that the poor state of liturgy in the Catholic Church reflected the dismal state, as I saw it, of Catholic theology).

I was very arrogant and, although I think that God did protect me from giving grave scandal, nevertheless in the confidence of my friends I became rabidly anti-Catholic, anti-Pope, even anti-West. I was quite literally on the cusp of a conversion; I was attending both Catholic Mass and Orthodox Divine Liturgy weekly, and I had spoken several times to the Orthodox priest about beginning a catechumenate. My bookcase is still filled with obscure Orthodox literature from that period in my life.

On the eve of my leaving home and going off to college, I had a sudden realisation, namely, that the choice was now mine entirely. I was not anymore bound by the Catholicism of my parents, and I was absolutely free to choose whichever Church I would.

And that is when I had the Thought, and it is this Thought which I now commend to your thinking:

Since the Great Schism (or in your case, perhaps, the Reformation), there have been 1000 years (500 years) of great and holy Saints in the Catholic Church. Put aside your doctrinal disagreements with the Saints for a time, and consider them personally for a minute. These are men and women who managed to live godly, holy lives in service of our Lord, many of them even laying down their lives for the same, and all of whom praised the Catholic Church as, at very least, an adequate means to attain to such a life.

Now, even though the Catholic Church would exalt itself higher still, and call itself the only ordinary means of salvation, don’t think on that for the moment. Rather, consider instead that, whatever else it may be, the Catholic Church was for these holy men and women all they needed to lead holy and righteous lives.

If you find yourself leading an unrighteous life, chances are that fact is not due to some obscure point of doctrine with which you are at variance. Chances are, in fact, that the problem is completely internal. Unless you can honestly say that you are the peer or superior of all of the Saints, the Catholic Church can in fact help you to greater holiness (and with greater holiness comes greater discernment, and more clarity about whether or not you should leave the Church).

Since you still have room to grow here, accept the witness of the Saints, humble yourself, and become pure and holy. I am not implying that Catholic doctrine is justified simply by the lives of the Saints - the Eastern Orthodox had just as many.

Rather, I am telling you that you are already in a place where you can find holiness, and that a search for a new Church is simply diverting energy from the real task at hand, the attaining of holiness and the imitation of Christ, making a scapegoat of a billion Christians, and leading you to grow a bubble of superiority about yourself (declaring yourself a master of discernment beyond these Saints is also a wild bit of arrogance to which I never could bring myself).

What has happened since my decision to remain? I have grown very fruitfully in employment as a Catholic church musician, I have grown in purity, holiness, and love of God, and He has brought into my life the most beautiful young lady I could ever have hoped to meet, and whom I never would have met had I not remained Catholic. He has led me to transfer to a Catholic college to better serve Him in His Church, and been the Giver of a thousand other consolations of this sort. He has caused my friendships to grow, my charity to increase, and my whole person to burn with a love for Christ.

And, last Friday, through His servant, a priest of my acquaintance, He finally resolved my last theological difficulties with Catholicism as it is at variance with E. Orthodoxy. Frist comes Trust, then Understanding.

Consider this.

Your Friend in Christ,

Sean

P.S - Not to come off as arrogant, do consider before making a snarky reply that this is not five paragraphs of high school logic, but is in fact a deeply condensed account of the most important considerations of five years of my life.

 

[Laughing_Crow]

I question the church, not God

OK, rationalize it your parents like this. You are disillusioned with the church and wish to look at the other ‘paths’ to God, see the church from the outside and try and find what you see as the right path. That said, as I understand it, Catholics are far more tightly nit then other families, so go to Mass etc but talk to your local religious leader about it.

Your best option is to try and feed your mind, explore your options. You may find after a few years you go back to the church, or maybe you find another church, or no church. If you stay Catholic but not by your own choice, instead being ‘pressured’ by others, then you will always hold a grudge against the people who pressured you into it and the church.

Basically, tell your parents you need to stop, step back and take a look. With a painting you can focus on one part to much, you need to step back and see the whole thing before you judge. Spend some time ‘soul searching’. Your parents may understand, maybe one of them even went through a similar crisis you are dealing with now.

 

[Alexander_Smith]

I question the church, not God

“You are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
-Matthew 16: 13-19

The Catholic Church has maintained an unbroken line from the first Pope, St. Peter, to the present day Pope Benedict XVI. By contrast, the first Protestant denominations appeared during the 1500s, so unless you believe that God allowed his children to be led astray by the Catholic Church for 1500 years after the teachings of Jesus Christ, you must accept that there is something more than “arrogance” to the idea of a one true Church.

 

[jsbrando]

And I’m gonna leave… seeing as no one has helped with my problem… which I probably should have expected on a Catholic forum see ya

I’ll give it a try as I am someone who stopped going to church at a young age and returned many years later.

One very important lesson that I learned when I was young and has been reinforced after 17+ years of marraige: Be honest, open, communicate clearly and often. Do not hold things back because of fear.

Now, if you go to your parents, and if you do this very rationally, calmly, and with an open heart and mind, sit down and discuss this with them they should hopefully understand and allow you to make your own decisions. An important part of being a young man/woman growing into adulthood is showing the ability to make your own decisions. Hopefully they will understand this as well and give you the opportunity to grow thru this decision.

You may find, hopefully, that after a time away from your faith that you miss it and desire a return to the church. Then again, you also may not feel this way, and that is part of growing up, forming your own opinions, and learning how to make decisions that impact your life, your future and the future of those around you.

 

[HumbledCatholic]

Laughing Crow,

The problem is that open-minded people never look to where they have been before, since they consider themselves as having mastered that path and having found it inadequate.

This is rarely the case, however.

Alexander,

The last thing he needs is apologetics. He’ll have his own, replying to all the major loci, and it will only pet his ego to let him make answer point-by-point.

 

[bibleguy180]

bibleguy, READ THIS:

At 16, 17, and 18 I at three separate instances almost left the Catholic Church to become Eastern Orthodox, as I was convinced that the Truth of God lay in that Church, and, as far as my thorough (for a teenager) research could tell, their argument was without any holes (I had several qualms with Catholicism, including the supremacy of Rome & some Marian doctrines, and I thought that the poor state of liturgy in the Catholic Church reflected the dismal state, as I saw it, of Catholic theology).

I was very arrogant and, although I think that God did protect me from giving grave scandal, nevertheless in the confidence of my friends I became rabidly anti-Catholic, anti-Pope, even anti-West. I was quite literally on the cusp of a conversion; I was attending both Catholic Mass and Orthodox Divine Liturgy weekly, and I had spoken several times to the Orthodox priest about beginning a catechumenate. My bookcase is still filled with obscure Orthodox literature from that period in my life.

On the eve of my leaving home and going off to college, I had a sudden realisation, namely, that the choice was now mine entirely. I was not anymore bound by the Catholicism of my parents, and I was absolutely free to choose whichever Church I would.

And that is when I had the Thought, and it is this Thought which I now commend to your thinking:

Since the Great Schism (or in your case, perhaps, the Reformation), there have been 1000 years (500 years) of great and holy Saints in the Catholic Church. Put aside your doctrinal disagreements with the Saints for a time, and consider them personally for a minute. These are men and women who managed to live godly, holy lives in service of our Lord, many of them even laying down their lives for the same, and all of whom praised the Catholic Church as, at very least, an adequate means to attain to such a life.

Now, even though the Catholic Church would exalt itself higher still, and call itself the only ordinary means of salvation, don’t think on that for the moment. Rather, consider instead that, whatever else it may be, the Catholic Church was for these holy men and women all they needed to lead holy and righteous lives.

If you find yourself leading an unrighteous life, chances are that fact is not due to some obscure point of doctrine with which you are at variance. Chances are, in fact, that the problem is completely internal. Unless you can honestly say that you are the peer or superior of all of the Saints, the Catholic Church can in fact help you to greater holiness (and with greater holiness comes greater discernment, and more clarity about whether or not you should leave the Church).

Since you still have room to grow here, accept the witness of the Saints, humble yourself, and become pure and holy. I am not implying that Catholic doctrine is justified simply by the lives of the Saints - the Eastern Orthodox had just as many.

Rather, I am telling you that you are already in a place where you can find holiness, and that a search for a new Church is simply diverting energy from the real task at hand, the attaining of holiness and the imitation of Christ, making a scapegoat of a billion Christians, and leading you to grow a bubble of superiority about yourself (declaring yourself a master of discernment beyond these Saints is also a wild bit of arrogance to which I never could bring myself).

What has happened since my decision to remain? I have grown very fruitfully in employment as a Catholic church musician, I have grown in purity, holiness, and love of God, and He has brought into my life the most beautiful young lady I could ever have hoped to meet, and whom I never would have met had I not remained Catholic. He has led me to transfer to a Catholic college to better serve Him in His Church, and been the Giver of a thousand other consolations of this sort. He has caused my friendships to grow, my charity to increase, and my whole person to burn with a love for Christ.

And, last Friday, through His servant, a priest of my acquaintance, He finally resolved my last theological difficulties with Catholicism as it is at variance with E. Orthodoxy. Frist comes Trust, then Understanding.

Consider this.

Your Friend in Christ,

Sean

P.S - Not to come off as arrogant, do consider before making a snarky reply that this is not five paragraphs of high school logic, but is in fact a deeply condensed account of the most important considerations of five years of my life.

Well, I appreciate your post and hopefully this does not come off as snarky, but I do feel there have also been many good righteous Protestant and Orthodox men and women, not just Catholics.

 

[Em_in_FL]

I question the church, not God

Please know it’s OKAY to ask questions. Don’t be ashamed of asking questions and demanding answers. I don’t think it’s fair to throw out threats of “loosing your salvation” or “this is as good as it gets” when you’re asking honest, open questions. You and I both know that God adores you and wants you to know, love, and serve Him. He created you!

Stop talking to relatives who are only pushing you further away… this is doing no one any good. They may be “good Catholics” on their own accord, but not everyone has the gift of Evangelizing… so don’t give them the pleasure of assuming they do.

All I’m asking is that you don’t shut the door to your Catholic faith… you’re ALLOWED to struggle and question and even look at “other options” (you have free will - you’re allowed to use it!), but don’t bitterly slam a door… leave it open while you’re searching.

You know why this is okay? It’s because deep down, I KNOW the Catholic Church is the truth. If you’re really searching for TRUTH, the Holy Spirit will guide you back in HIS time and help you through your struggles.

Also, keep in mind that some of your disagreements may be due to how your family and relatives live out their “Catholic” lives. Sometimes having bad examples can turn you off, even from something that’s good. Try to SEPARATE your faith from your family. Right now you’re just “Catholic” to please them. Don’t do it just to please them, do it because you’re searching for the truth on your own accord.

I will keep you in my prayers… I have every confidence that our beautiful faith CAN answer your questions and I trust that God will let the church’s teachings be explained to you in ways that you never considered before.

God bless you and keep you!!! Don’t slam the door… just leave it cracked open for a little light… Take one day at a time.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Please know it’s OKAY to ask questions. Don’t be ashamed of asking questions and demanding answers. I don’t think it’s fair to throw out threats of “loosing your salvation” or “this is as good as it gets” when you’re asking honest, open questions. You and I both know that God adores you and wants you to know, love, and serve Him. He created you!

Stop talking to relatives who are only pushing you further away… this is doing no one any good. They may be “good Catholics” on their own accord, but not everyone has the gift of Evangelizing… so don’t give them the pleasure of assuming they do.

All I’m asking is that you don’t shut the door to your Catholic faith… you’re ALLOWED to struggle and question and even look at “other options” (you have free will - you’re allowed to use it!), but don’t bitterly slam a door… leave it open while you’re searching.

You know why this is okay? It’s because deep down, I KNOW the Catholic Church is the truth. If you’re really searching for TRUTH, the Holy Spirit will guide you back in HIS time and help you through your struggles.

Also, keep in mind that some of your disagreements may be due to how your family and relatives live out their “Catholic” lives. Sometimes having bad examples can turn you off, even from something that’s good. Try to SEPARATE your faith from your family. Right now you’re just “Catholic” to please them. Don’t do it just to please them, do it because you’re searching for the truth on your own accord.

I will keep you in my prayers… I have every confidence that our beautiful faith CAN answer your questions and I trust that God will let the church’s teachings be explained to you in ways that you never considered before.

God bless you and keep you!!! Don’t slam the door… just leave it cracked open for a little light… Take one day at a time.

Yes!!!

 

[JRKH]

Well, I appreciate your post and hopefully this does not come off as snarky, but I do feel there have also been many good righteous Protestant and Orthodox men and women, not just Catholics.

Indeed there have.

If I may ask, is there a particular church - path you are considering? Orthodox perhaps?

Peace
James

 

[HumbledCatholic]

Well, I appreciate your post and hopefully this does not come off as snarky, but I do feel there have also been many good righteous Protestant and Orthodox men and women, not just Catholics.

I acknowledge that in the post. The point is that the goal is not some esoteric knowledge, but righteousness.

You are probably not in a place where your righteousness is so refined as to be sensitive to small points of doctrine. The Church, be She true or false, is there to help you yet, not be a stumblingblock.

If people have become holy in the Church, so can you without leaving Her; to put your whole energy to finding a dogmatically sound church is to ignore the real and pressing question of Christian living.

 

[teresa_mrg]

I’ll give it a try as I am someone who stopped going to church at a young age and returned many years later.

One very important lesson that I learned when I was young and has been reinforced after 17+ years of marraige: Be honest, open, communicate clearly and often. Do not hold things back because of fear.

Now, if you go to your parents, and if you do this very rationally, calmly, and with an open heart and mind, sit down and discuss this with them they should hopefully understand and allow you to make your own decisions. An important part of being a young man/woman growing into adulthood is showing the ability to make your own decisions. Hopefully they will understand this as well and give you the opportunity to grow thru this decision.

You may find, hopefully, that after a time away from your faith that you miss it and desire a return to the church. Then again, you also may not feel this way, and that is part of growing up, forming your own opinions, and learning how to make decisions that impact your life, your future and the future of those around you.

i agree with jsbrando.
i’m not saying i agree with OP’s decision to leave Catholic, but one’s faith CANNOT BE FORCED!
the result may not be good for everyone, especially for themselves, because their hearts are not in it.
if we want to help, then pray the best for them…

answering OP’s question, maybe you can tell your parents that at the moment, your heart is not in it. even if you stay Catholic, you may not be able to practice it well. ask them to help you by praying the best for you, and to believe that God has a good plan for their son.
it’s much wiser to wait at least until 18 though, for something this important. that time, your mind may have been more mature and open (i’m not saying you’re not mature at the moment, but surely as you get older, you can be more mature. it happens to everyone).
see if your heart has changed or not by then. don’t rush in this kind of decision.

having said so, i do hope you won’t leave this faith… maybe someday, if it’s God’s will, you will see how valuable, priceless, and amazing this faith is…
there are many people, now and in the past, who had to struggle painfully only to keep their Catholic faith or to struggle for a slightest chance to live with this faith, under high pressure from everyone around them. some of them even struggled until their deaths.
you are one lucky person, not having to go through that kind of pressure, but you want to leave it this easily? please don’t waste this Blessing too easily, appreciate it better.

a sincere good luck to you in whatever you do and whatever you believe in.
all of us, your brothers and sisters, will always welcome you in this Church, anytime.
God bless

 

[Chiltepin]

You do believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Considering what a stumbling block that belief alone can be for people I would say don’t give up yet. If real presence would be a requirement in any church you converted to, I suppose that you can’t travel too far. (I can only think of a few)

You are having doubts, respectfully study what you need to study.

As some have suggested, when talking to your parents, calmly discuss your issues with the faith. Maybe if calm is not their strongpoint, preface by saying you want to calmly discuss some doubts you are having, so they know what is coming.

You are 16 (you probably hate that phrase, but keep reading)… which means you have some really great years ahead of you. (Read as: COLLEGE) College was great for so many reasons, but the intellectual atmosphere is amazing and a good time for a deepening understanding of the Catholic faith with your newly forming collegiate education and thinking skills. I think a person should have to really know what they are leaving and have exhausted every avenue of research and inspiration. If you shut the door too soon, you are missing out on Catholicism in college.