Help? Why do they hate the faith so very much?

[Earnest_Bunbury]

could you elaborate? Jealous about what?

or is it a number of things?

Just as Satan wants those whom God loves to be miserable and damned as he, those who are sons of the father of lies are in league to that end. The guilt and shame of going against that which is written on our hearts is a powerful angst against those who point out this error.

 

[Snerticus]

When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings…

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp.

I kind of illustrate what the difference is between Catholics and non-Catholics in a story I wrote earlier today. It’s about a prospector and I will post it as soon as I can. I make comments after it that relate to this post. I hope when I put it up, you’ll read it and comment. It just popped in my head earlier after I wrote a response to an anti Catholic.

I believe since the Reformation, the Reformers believed Satan’s lies mixed in with the truth, and things just snowballed from there. The good is still there, but angst and bitterness spring from what’s missing. And this is all unbeknownst to them. They genuinely feel they are correct and have the Truth.

 

[Detales]

"*However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp."*

What is hard to grasp? My sister is a Mormon and she is hated for that, and has had vandalism to deal with on that account. I worked with SDA’s and JW’s who were hated for that, even by Catholics. Muslims are hated for their faith. Christians hate each other for how they interpret the Bible.* Jews are/were hated for their religion and suffered horribly, as did Christians. Why do you feel special or singled out? That is elitist rubbish. And it is not, please, because you have, in your mind, the One True religion. We are a race that one way or another likes to crucify its saviors in whatever arena. We are, it would seem, generally at the two-year-old level of "ME! MINE! in these matters. Grow up.

*“In the All Nations Barber Shop of Fresno, Caliofornia, a brber and another man shot each other to death in an argument over the true meaning of certain passages of the Bible.” San Jose News, May 5, 1969 And of course there was Ireland. Would you like me to introdce you to an escapee from Dublin who could curl your toes with stories of Catholic vs. Protestant “love?”

 

[Jossy]

"*However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp."*

What is hard to grasp? My sister is a Mormon and she is hated for that, and has had vandalism to deal with on that account. I worked with SDA’s and JW’s who were hated for that, even by Catholics. Muslims are hated for their faith. Christians hate each other for how they interpret the Bible.* Jews are/were hated for their religion and suffered horribly, as did Christians. Why do you feel special or singled out? That is elitist rubbish. And it is not, please, because you have, in your mind, the One True religion. We are a race that one way or another likes to crucify its saviors in whatever arena. We are, it would seem, generally at the two-year-old level of "ME! MINE! in these matters. Grow up.

*“In the All Nations Barber Shop of Fresno, Caliofornia, a brber and another man shot each other to death in an argument over the true meaning of certain passages of the Bible.” San Jose News, May 5, 1969 And of course there was Ireland. Would you like me to introdce you to an escapee from Dublin who could curl your toes with stories of Catholic vs. Protestant “love?”

All other religions get attacked, both verbally and sometimes
violently but the argument here is about Catholic Church being
attacked.

 

[RobbyS]

All other religions get attacked, both verbally and sometimes
violently but the argument here is about Catholic Church being
attacked.

And the Church is attacked because she has become increassingly countercultural.

 

[Jossy]

And the Church is attacked because she has become increassingly countercultural.

Maybe that is how other people look at the Church because
of its teachings. If people who hate the Church so much see
it these way then that is their agony.
The only way to get over their hate is to pray for peace in their
hearts.

 

[Free_Radical]

When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings…

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp.

A wise priest once said, “The main reason why there aren’t more Catholics is because of other Catholics.” This holds true for why many people aren’t attracted to the Church, are even repelled by the Church. All you need to do is scan through the Politics forum and you will see a consistent lack of charity. There are many Catholics who look down their nose with scorn and self-righteous indignation at other Catholics who don’t share the same opinions as them or practice their faith in the same way. Unfortunately, this misrepresents the faith to those outside the Church.

If one were really to study what the Catechism of the Catholic Church actually says, or to meet with one our holy, loving, servant-leader priests, he/she might be pleasantly surprised. That’s what happened to me. As a Christian who wasn’t Catholic, I was very resistant and turned-off by the Catholic Church. Then, I met an inspiring priest who helped me to see the beauty of the Church. He showed me that the Church is more than just a religion or set of rules. He reaffirmed to me that the idea is to nurture and strengthen your relationship with Christ. This idea often gets lost.

 

[survive]

I’ve been hated in pretty nearly all the belief systems I’ve adhered to in my life. I was hated as a Communist kid because everyone else knew more about what Communism really is than we did, since we didn’t live in Communism but merely wished for what we thought it would be. I learned more and became an anarchist, and was hated for that because most people really didn’t know what anarchy is. I left that paradigm/dream because anarchy is impossible over the long term, and there is no way to prevent its being replaced by the very opposite: tyrrany by whomever takes over first.
I was then a New Ager; there I was the least hated. I left that system because it was self-serving and full of contradictions and therefore seemed unlikely to just happen to turn out to be true. Besides it didn’t meet its own tests. I was an explorer of the unexplained and got really into hardcore left-hand occultism. I was very hated then yet also had an easy time making friends and making men buy things for me. But it was far from worthwhile.
Anyway, I wandered around shades of Eastern religion and pantheism and agnosticism and occasional attraction to Christianity. Didn’t get any hate there except when I tried to find out what was true. The very idea that I would dare not to accept the nearest scenester’s word on what was true enraged so many people I decided to keep it under my hat mostly. Several years ago I got into examining the claims of Christianity in a multi-directional approach, and furtively found reasons, which I could no longer explain away, to believe the canonical Bible is a book of greater truth than any other. I sought ways to accept it without excluding other belief systems. In that way my friends could think I hadn’t deserted them and their right to control one another . But as I learned that that was impossible, I started finding coy means of letting people know my final conclusions on that topic.
I got baptized. I invited lots of people and almost all refused to attend on the grounds that they couldn’t approve of the ceremony. Over the next few years I put up with ferociously histrionic attacks against my newfound religion from people I’d been close to and from near strangers all the time. I was extremely hated as an Evangelical Friend and much more so as a Pentecostal. The world flings spittle in all directions at the sight of Pentecostals. I figure it’s the refusal to mind that gets them worked up. We’d grin and laugh and say, “Be safe out there. God loves you,” and walk on. They’d scream, flap, run around, bug out their eyes and curse us on and on. It drove them crazy that they couldn’t bring us down to the same level of discourse. It’s one of my proudest memories of that otherwise weird phase of my journey.
One day I was actually reading CA pages and got interested (to say the least; I post what happened now and then) in Catholicism. In a few months I was in RCIA and sure I would convert. I did. I do run into hate as a Catholic, but I think not as much as I got as a Pentecostal, maybe somewhere around the amount I got as an Evangelical Friend. Most people I met took a few conversations to find out what an Evangelical Friend is, slowing the impact of the information.
In light of that experience, I say the reasons for all the real, over-the-top, explosive, rabid hate are several. There’s jealousy; misinformation; offended vanity on the part of those who think they are the wise ones and have vast wisdom for us all and keep forgetting there are those who don’t see things quite that way. Then there is a lot of overgeneralization on the part of people who were hurt in the Church and think that’s one of the main things the Church does and that it doesn’t happen everywhere (I was hurt or let down badly at times by atheists, agnostics, New Agers, Zen Buddhists, pagans… but it’s over), and sometimes it is possibly something spiritual or just an ordinary mental block. I would imagine it’s spurred and fed richly by the mass media, which are dominated by anti-Christians and balanced very lightly by Evangelicals.:twocents:

 

[xyneshia]

When speaking with other people about the Catholic faith, all sorts of horrific things come out of their mouths and is posted on many forums. I understand to a reasonable degree when people just do not agree with certain teachings…

However, why does it seem that so many people really, truly hate Catholics and the Catholic faith? I mean really hate–not just dislike…

It is hard to grasp.

I’m not as smart or as well spoken as some of my brothers and sisters in Christ that I see here on the forum but here is my two cents.

I think it depends on who does the hating. People who do not believe in God for example may hate us simply for believing in a Creator. I know a number of atheists for example that think Catholics are bigoted and intolerant (sp?). A lot of these same people are tolerant of everything under the sun except for Christianity. imo there is a lot of evil in the world that is “okay” and protected and celebrated under the flag of ‘tolerance’. (I know that was a really harsh thing to write, sorry).

As someone who grew up hard core protestant I can tell you why a lot of Christians of other faith traditions hate Catholicism. I grew up hearing all sorts of terrible things about Catholicism from my Protestant parents. “they worship dead people” “they think Jesus needs Mary’s help” ya know… the usual. And some things that are true but that as a protestant I misunderstood as being sinful or evil. For example, Catholicsgo to confession, can drink, and pray to saints and Jesus (We believed that only God the Father could receive our prayers).

Again that is just my two cents from what I have seen and experienced and certainly cannot speak for everyone.

Praise God he led me to the truth!

 

[ATL_Granny]

Xyneshia – Don’t you worry about feeling “as smart or well spoken” as others - your explanation hit the mark beautifully!

[Shhh…don’t tell anyone I said this…but sometimes those who are the smartest write in ways that confuse everyone around them. Those who speak plainly are often the ones who can get their point across the best! ]

 

[Snerticus]

And the Church is attacked because she has become increassingly countercultural.

As was Jesus. The people of those days didn’t see Him as anything but going against their beliefs and counter to what they practiced at the time.

 

[distracted]

Just as Satan wants those whom God loves to be miserable and damned as he, those who are sons of the father of lies are in league to that end. The guilt and shame of going against that which is written on our hearts is a powerful angst against those who point out this error.

hmm… this explains why people are against Catholicism generally… but i thought you meant people were jealous of … well, i thought poster was referring to Christians being jealous.

so, do you think non-Catholics are usually jealous of us - and if so, Why?

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

hmm… this explains why people are against Catholicism generally… but i thought you meant people were jealous of … well, i thought poster was referring to Christians being jealous.

so, do you think non-Catholics are usually jealous of us - and if so, Why?

Our Lord’s statement “Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven” indicates that some who profess the Lord do not truly know Him. As He is our true Good and our “hearts are restless…” then as a consequence of that, the latent guilt of sin and envy manifests itself sometimes in lashing out at those that have what the heart seeks in those who don’t know themselves in their actions and motivations. So if one does not know Christ truly, even if a professing Christian, jealousy can manifest itself. Even in Catholics who don’t either.

 

[MarieCB]

I grew up as a member of the Salvation Army, then became a Baptist as an adult. (Although not nearly so simply. I’ve wavered between upstanding church member and turning my back entirely on religion - guess which times I’ve made the mistakes which have driven me back to church?)

At any rate, I grew up with all of the Jack Chick tracts and strident anti-Catholic teachings. I believe that it was imparted with good intentions and solid beliefs. These people really do believe the things that they are told. They sincerely believe that Catholics are “not really Christians”. I’ve seen in my own life - a small misunderstanding, plus a complete lack of communication, plus a bit of imagination equals hatred and fear. We were taught to stay away from Catholics, because they would endanger our soul - after all, Catholics worship the pope, Mary and a whole bunch of “saints”, have a weird cannibalistic church service, believe that they can buy their way into Heaven, believe in their church instead of in Jesus, hoard wealth instead of caring for the poor, put their faith in rote prayer and meaningless ritual, believe that man-made tradition is as important as the Bible, etc … I would not say that there was any jealousy. Instead, there was a firm believe that the Catholic Church is evil and leading people straight to hell.

I believed all of this, because it’s what I was taught. And since my teen years - twenty years ago - I’ve been trying to find someone who would tell me otherwise. But the minute I would ask a Catholic about their beliefs, the minute I would say any of the moronic bits of ‘truth’ that I had been taught, I was treated as an enemy.

Worse, though, were the many, many semi-Catholics that I have known. I reached my thirties believing that Catholics are all hypocrites who stop going to Mass after confirmation and then do exactly what they want while fully expecting to go to heaven! Although they apparently start going again - sometimes daily - when they’re very old and are getting scared of dying. It gets tiring to hear “Well, I was an altar boy!” from someone who hasn’t set foot in a church in twenty five years and was quite happily married by a rent-a-minister, and then went on to cheat on and abuse his wife! (But won’t divorce her - because THAT would be a sin!) So combine the two - I ask questions about the church from someone who seems to have turned his back on it, and I’m “attacking the Church”.

So why do some people hate the Catholic Church? A lot of hypocritical Catholics, a lot of misunderstandings and a lack of communication, from what I’ve seen.

And I would say the divorce thing doesn’t help, either.

 

[ATL_Granny]

I grew up as a member of the Salvation Army, then became a Baptist as an adult. (Although not nearly so simply. I’ve wavered between upstanding church member and turning my back entirely on religion - guess which times I’ve made the mistakes which have driven me back to church?)

At any rate, I grew up with all of the Jack Chick tracts and strident anti-Catholic teachings. I believe that it was imparted with good intentions and solid beliefs. These people really do believe the things that they are told. They sincerely believe that Catholics are “not really Christians”. I’ve seen in my own life - a small misunderstanding, plus a complete lack of communication, plus a bit of imagination equals hatred and fear. We were taught to stay away from Catholics, because they would endanger our soul - after all, Catholics worship the pope, Mary and a whole bunch of “saints”, have a weird cannibalistic church service, believe that they can buy their way into Heaven, believe in their church instead of in Jesus, hoard wealth instead of caring for the poor, put their faith in rote prayer and meaningless ritual, believe that man-made tradition is as important as the Bible, etc … I would not say that there was any jealousy. Instead, there was a firm believe that the Catholic Church is evil and leading people straight to hell.

I believed all of this, because it’s what I was taught. And since my teen years - twenty years ago - I’ve been trying to find someone who would tell me otherwise. But the minute I would ask a Catholic about their beliefs, the minute I would say any of the moronic bits of ‘truth’ that I had been taught, I was treated as an enemy.

Worse, though, were the many, many semi-Catholics that I have known. I reached my thirties believing that Catholics are all hypocrites who stop going to Mass after confirmation and then do exactly what they want while fully expecting to go to heaven! Although they apparently start going again - sometimes daily - when they’re very old and are getting scared of dying. It gets tiring to hear “Well, I was an altar boy!” from someone who hasn’t set foot in a church in twenty five years and was quite happily married by a rent-a-minister, and then went on to cheat on and abuse his wife! (But won’t divorce her - because THAT would be a sin!) So combine the two - I ask questions about the church from someone who seems to have turned his back on it, and I’m “attacking the Church”.

So why do some people hate the Catholic Church? A lot of hypocritical Catholics, a lot of misunderstandings and a lack of communication, from what I’ve seen.

And I would say the divorce thing doesn’t help, either.

Marie~

I would say that your post is one of the absolute BEST I have EVER read on ANY forum with regard to why we Catholics are seen with such derision. :bowdown2:

You hit all the main points – misunderstanding on the part of others as to how we Catholics see Tradition, Church, Mary and the Saints; presumption on the part of many Catholics as to God’s Mercy while ignorance of His Justice and even the arrogance of some as to the superiority of their knowledge of Catholicism versus the imbicility of those who must be jealous of that knowledge.

BRAVO!!! :clapping:

Your post indicates that you are new – I’m pretty new, too, though I was very active in a Catholic online forum for many years at the turn of the century. You don’t say whether you are here to seek answers as to why Catholics believe what they do or whether you have become Catholic yourself. I will just say that this is a great place to learn, that some people can misunderstand even the best intentions and that I, for one, am thrilled to make your acquaintance!

 

[MarieCB]

Your post indicates that you are new – I’m pretty new, too, though I was very active in a Catholic online forum for many years at the turn of the century. You don’t say whether you are here to seek answers as to why Catholics believe what they do or whether you have become Catholic yourself. I will just say that this is a great place to learn, that some people can misunderstand even the best intentions and that I, for one, am thrilled to make your acquaintance!

Thank you. How about … tentatively wondering if there’s a place for me in the Catholic church? I’ve had a pretty wild life, enough that the thought of confession to anyone other than God makes me pretty nervous, and my life remains complicated. (Let’s say that I can sort of relate to the woman Jesus met at the well.)

I suppose I’m summed up well in the tag line I’ve seen from someone here: I’m a heretic. But I’m getting better, I promise.

 

[jmcrae]

And I would say the divorce thing doesn’t help, either.

Which way? That Declarations of Nullity are granted, thus appearing to allow divorce? Or our belief that marriage, when it is validly contracted, is always a life-long covenant?

 

[MarieCB]

Which way? That Declarations of Nullity are granted, thus appearing to allow divorce? Or our belief that marriage, when it is validly contracted, is always a life-long covenant?

I don’t think that most non-Catholics understand the Declaration of Nullity. Judging by what I’ve seen on this forum, lots of Catholics don’t, either. And, yes, it seems pretty hypocritical at times.

Divorce, as unfortunate as it is, is part of modern culture. It is too easy to get married, there is too little societal support for marriages and too much temptation, and I think that too few people see healthy relationships modeled. And, really, for someone who has not grown up in the Catholic church, it’s rather disconcerting to hear that you’re considered bound to the person you divorced a decade or more ago. Or that you’re still married to the person who cheated on you and abused you. After a difficult divorce, who wants to also go through an annulment - whatever that even involves? Really, divorce is hard enough!

It’s not that other churches (or faith communities) teach that divorce is perfectly fine and acceptable, but they don’t continue to punish the innocent spouse, which is what it looks like to most of us non-Catholics. For someone like me, no matter how convinced I might be of the truth in the Catholic church, that can be a major barrier.

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think that most non-Catholics understand the Declaration of Nullity. Judging by what I’ve seen on this forum, lots of Catholics don’t, either.

Which is why we pay well-educated lawyers to serve on the Marriage Tribunal and sort these things out for us.

And, yes, it seems pretty hypocritical at times.

I felt the same way, when I was first learning about it. In my case, I felt that if I were in charge of a Marriage Tribunal, the only people who would get Declarations of Nullity would be people who had accidentally married their close relatives. I still think that if the world worked like that, people would be a lot more careful about who they marry, and make sure they were marrying someone they could live with for the rest of their lives, regardless of circumstances.

Divorce, as unfortunate as it is, is part of modern culture. It is too easy to get married, there is too little societal support for marriages and too much temptation, and I think that too few people see healthy relationships modeled. And, really, for someone who has not grown up in the Catholic church, it’s rather disconcerting to hear that you’re considered bound to the person you divorced a decade or more ago. Or that you’re still married to the person who cheated on you and abused you. After a difficult divorce, who wants to also go through an annulment - whatever that even involves? Really, divorce is hard enough!

And sometimes Catholic marriages need to undergo civil divorces. Not that the people would ever remarry, but there are times when, for the safety of at least one of them, they need to separate and they each need to become responsible for their own finances, etc. Civil divorce allows for this, and if there is just cause, the Church permits it.

A Declaration of Nullity goes a step further and says that there was no valid marriage. The Tribunal can then give one or both parties permission to attempt marriage again.

 

[MarieCB]

I felt the same way, when I was first learning about it. In my case, I felt that if I were in charge of a Marriage Tribunal, the only people who would get Declarations of Nullity would be people who had accidentally married their close relatives. I still think that if the world worked like that, people would be a lot more careful about who they marry, and make sure they were marrying someone they could live with for the rest of their lives, regardless of circumstances.

Perhaps it would for devout cradle Catholics, but non-Catholics wouldn’t care - until the time when they might consider becoming Catholic. And semi-Catholics (I don’t know what else to call them) would still ignore it. I’ve been married twice, and I went into both of them completely certain that it would last forever. My first turned out to be an immature child who was clearly not ready for marriage, and my second was a lying, cheating scoundrel.

I don’t mean to be hijacking the thread. But I think that the entire marriage/divorce/annulment thing is a barrier for those of us who haven’t grown up Catholic.