Again, none of this is highly unique, implausible, etc. I’m not saying that this is proof against the legitimacy of the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith’s claims, but that the witnesses never denouncing their testimonies, no matter if there were 3 or 11 or more, is not a unique event in history, religious or otherwise, and really isn’t proof that the Book of Mormon and its origins according to the various churches that adhere to it is true.
Yes, it would be difficult for that catholic should s/he choose to tell his family and leave the church. Regardless, you seem to think that this decision - whether for a mormon or a catholic in such a situation - really isn’t such a big deal and these folks just need to suck it up and walk out the door. Have I characterized your view correctly?
–No it is not! On the contrary.
It doesn’t matter whether they recanted or not. The fact that Joseph Smith called them “too mean to mention, liars, cheats, and blacklegs” means either Joseph Smith was right (that they are liars and cheats) or they were not liars and cheats, in which case Joseph Smith becomes the liar and cheat.
–Well, we know Joe Smith was a con man, so all we can surmise is that he paid 10 or 11 friends to keep their pie holes shut and back him up.
But it does make it interesting. And I do think that there is some implausibility about it. We also need to remember the wives of the 11. We were they? It is highly unlikely that if the 11 were in on the fraud they could have kept it secret from their wives. Women would have a way of knowing.
And then there was Emma. She was around at that time and was no lackey. She would have known too. The list could grow to many more than the 11.I don’t know if he did. Did he write that down somewhere? But even so, that would have been all more reason to expose the fraud. The fact that he said it, must mean something. He had no fear of exposure.
Why me, as much as you try to rationalize it, it is clear from history that it is not a unique event, and similar events have occurred throughout human history, including more recent history. Human nature does not dictate that one of them would have come clean, nor does human conscience. There are many factors at work that do not necessitate either to be the case. Again, history bears testimony to this.But it does make it interesting. And I do think that there is some implausibility about it. We also need to remember the wives of the 11. We were they? It is highly unlikely that if the 11 were in on the fraud they could have kept it secret from their wives. Women would have a way of knowing.
Human nature would dictate that one of them would have come clean in later years about it, if they survived JS. And then we need to remember the human conscience. If they were in on the fraud, they would have been guilty of murder since many people died for the fraud, many innocent people. I don’t know if they could have handled it in silence.
Is it? In a culture where women were nothing more than servants? Joseph Smith kept his “fooling around” a secret from Emma. Then when she found out, he threatened her with damnation if she didn’t accept it! It was a different world for Mormon women back then.
-Poor Emma having to endure Marriage to that dolted fake prophet.
Suspiciously missing Fanny Alger.-Poor Emma having to endure Marriage to that dolted fake prophet.
And Joey Smith did a lot more than just “fooling around” - he married at least 24 women (and some say over 30 women). The 24 wives are listed here - and it’s an LDS site
–Good catch.
Strange how you don’t admonish StLawrence to be more respectful. If he were a mormon you would.
I am sure that it does. The only problem is: it does not explain the book of mormon and who wrote it. Now come up with a good idea and see where it takes you.
Why Me, that is hardly a problem, and there are quite a few theories as to who wrote the Book of Mormon, just like how there are theories as to how the Koran came into existence, the Vedas, and even the Bible. Joseph Smith “translating” it is not the only plausible scenario, as we discussed on the BOM Linguistics thread. It does not meant that we can definitively say who wrote it at this point, but we can look at various issues and make educated conclusions from that (which of course differs from the Mormon educated conclusions). Again, this is not a unique issue in history.
–Joe wrote that mess and if you check HERE, you will find that the book of mormon has been revised over 3,900 times. ***Ooopsie. ***
I haven’t been paying attention to your conversation. So, more respectful of what?Strange how you don’t admonish StLawrence to be more respectful. If he were a mormon you would.