help with gay friends

[buffalo]

That’s funny, I don’t know of ANYTHING that gay folks do that straight folks don’t do too. Does that mean that straight folks should be discriminated against too?

We are discriminating against the act, which is a sin.

 

[Fitswimmer]

You are not born gay. There is no gay gene.
People are gay as a result of upbringing, environment, choice.

When did you choose to be heterosexual and what were the environmental and upbringing circumstances that led you to that decision?

I would LOVE to have been born straight. My life would have been a lot easier and a LOT less lonely. Living a chaste life is not an easy thing and certainly not something my parents would have wanted for me or that I wanted for myself. I had a perfectly stable, uneventful childhood-went to Catholic schools, my parents are STILL married and my home was happy and loving. I’m still not straight…

 

[buffalo]

When did you choose to be heterosexual and what were the environmental and upbringing circumstances that led you to that decision?

I would LOVE to have been born straight. My life would have been a lot easier and a LOT less lonely. Living a chaste life is not an easy thing and certainly not something my parents would have wanted for me or that I wanted for myself. I had a perfectly stable, uneventful childhood-went to Catholic schools, my parents are STILL married and my home was happy and loving. I’m still not straight…

If a pill came out that would turn you heterosexual would you take it?

 

[Fitswimmer]

If a pill came out that would turn you heterosexual would you take it?

Interesting question…I’m nearly 50 now, so I’m kind of used to being who I am and dealing with what goes with it. Sure, I get frustrated and do my share of whining about it, but it’s the Cross that I have been dealt and I have to believe that God had a reason for giving it to me.

If such a thing had existed when I was 20, or even when I was 12, I would have grabbed at it without even asking about potential side effects or about God’s plan for creating me this way.

 

[Gene_Church]

When did you choose to be heterosexual and what were the environmental and upbringing circumstances that led you to that decision?

I would LOVE to have been born straight. My life would have been a lot easier and a LOT less lonely. Living a chaste life is not an easy thing and certainly not something my parents would have wanted for me or that I wanted for myself. I had a perfectly stable, uneventful childhood-went to Catholic schools, my parents are STILL married and my home was happy and loving. I’m still not straight…

The issue in the Catholic Church is not same sex attraction, but sexual relations outside of marriage.

I am pleased to hear that you see yourself as perfectly stable. My experience with those with same sex attraction has been that they frequently have problems with their relationship with their father; while you do not address this, I will assume that you do not see yourself that way.

Heterosexuality is the norm in the environment. As they so colloquailly say, the plumbing works that way…

 

[Gene_Church]

Interesting question…I’m nearly 50 now, so I’m kind of used to being who I am and dealing with what goes with it. Sure, I get frustrated and do my share of whining about it, but it’s the Cross that I have been dealt and I have to believe that God had a reason for giving it to me.

If such a thing had existed when I was 20, or even when I was 12, I would have grabbed at it without even asking about potential side effects or about God’s plan for creating me this way.

Fit, thank you for sharing with us. It is refreshing to have this discussion in this fashion.

 

[buffalo]

Interesting question…I’m nearly 50 now, so I’m kind of used to being who I am and dealing with what goes with it. Sure, I get frustrated and do my share of whining about it, but it’s the Cross that I have been dealt and I have to believe that God had a reason for giving it to me.

If such a thing had existed when I was 20, or even when I was 12, I would have grabbed at it without even asking about potential side effects or about God’s plan for creating me this way.

Why are you then an advocate? I am confused.

 

[pentecostbaby]

I really appreciate all the help people have offered. I know it’s all meant to help me and others find God, and for that I’m grateful.
I do have to say, however, that having a gay sister and gay friends - regardless of my issues with how to respond to them - means quite a lot to me. I love them very much, which I why I am worried about it.
I also know that their sexuality was not a choice. I realize that many people believe this, but I grew up with an “Irish twin” who came out when she was 17. She knew that something was “different” from the time she was very small.
I appreciate the attempts to “set me straight” about homosexuality - I know they were meant out of love, and for that, I am deeply grateful - but I’m not going to budge on that one, and I’m not going to drop my friends. Jesus hung out with sinners, and I certainly sin just as much as my gay friends do - only in different ways. Should they stop talking to me because I fail to live up to Catholic faith sometimes? If that was the case, none of us would have friends.
I’ll keep praying to the Holy Spirit, and I’ll keep praying for my friends as well. Any other ideas?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Why are you then an advocate? I am confused.

I’m only an “advocate” for humane and loving treatment for those of us who have been given this Cross, just as I am for everyone else no matter what their Cross is. . I’m an “advocate” regarding gossip, bullying, harassment, violence and any other form of discrimination against someone because of the way they were born-whether it is their sexual attraction, their predeliction for alcohol, gambling, anger or any other sin.

We are called by God to LOVE each other and support each other through our struggles, whatever those struggles may be.

 

[Fitswimmer]

The issue in the Catholic Church is not same sex attraction, but sexual relations outside of marriage.

I am pleased to hear that you see yourself as perfectly stable. My experience with those with same sex attraction has been that they frequently have problems with their relationship with their father; while you do not address this, I will assume that you do not see yourself that way.

Heterosexuality is the norm in the environment. As they so colloquailly say, the plumbing works that way…

No, I don’t. I was, and still am-a Daddy’s Girl. What I know about God’s unconditional love I learned from the love of my father. My mother certainly must have had her disappointments in not receiving the little girl she had hoped for, but I don’t doubt her love either. While I have never “come out” to my parents, both of them most likely have figured it out by now, yet they have never shown me the slightest indication that they love me any less because they couldn’t have grandchildren or dance at my wedding. I think they are somewhat concerned about my growing old alone, only because their 50 year marriage has been so strong.

Sure, heterosexuality is the norm, but that doesn’t mean that those of us who aren’t wired that way are somehow less than human. We just have a different and sometimes more obvious Cross than others.

 

[buffalo]

I’m only an “advocate” for humane and loving treatment for those of us who have been given this Cross, just as I am for everyone else no matter what their Cross is. . I’m an “advocate” regarding gossip, bullying, harassment, violence and any other form of discrimination against someone because of the way they were born-whether it is their sexual attraction, their predeliction for alcohol, gambling, anger or any other sin.

We are called by God to LOVE each other and support each other through our struggles, whatever those struggles may be.

Then you are not advocating the sin. We love the sinner and hate the sin.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Then you are not advocating the sin. We love the sinner and hate the sin.

I don’t advocate anyone sinning. I’m not an advocate of drinking to excess, reading/watching Porn, gossiping about one’s neighbor or coveting thy neighbor’s Porsche.

The only thing I would respectfully suggest is that having a same sex attraction doesn’t make me or anyone else a lesser human being or more inclined to sin or a sinner just by my existence. Often I get the impression that heterosexual Christians have reserved a special classification for us, while the only difference is HOW we are inclined to sin. My confessor says that there is no difference in the sin of Lust-it is the SAME sin whether you are lusting after someone of your own gender or the opposite gender.

 

[huckleberry]

My husband and I work/ go to school at a state university. I understand why the Church views homosexuality as wrong, and I’m working hard to live that belief in my everyday life. I don’t. however, believe that sexuality is a choice. I think it’s something you’re born with.
However, before I came back to the Church, I had a LOT of gay friends. My sister is gay. In the environment I work in right now, “announcing” that I think gay marriage is wrong, etc, would seriously impact my job (most likely) and jeopardize just about every friendship I have. To most people I know, saying that you don’t believe in gay marriage would be the equivalent of saying you hate an entire race.
Moreover, my church used to be known as the “gay friendly parish”. We’ve gotten a new priest, but we still have a large homosexual population - including a friend of mine who lives with his boyfriend.
I don’t know what to say when people talk about gay rights. I don’t know how to deal with gay friends talking about their boyfriends, etc. In fact, I’m even scared to ask this question because I’m worried people will tell me to flat-out inform them they are living in sin. I love my friends, and I know that my telling them this would only make them feel betrayed and hurt - they aren’t going to go out and change.
I also have a friend who is working as a phone sex operator; all of my friends (the non-Catholic ones) believe in abortion … I’m a liberal. I don’t know what to say to them - especially since these were all people I knew before I returned to the Church.
How do I deal with these situations? How am I called to act? I try now just to love and not judge people. Is this okay?

Perhaps it would help if you would try to separate in your mind that which is mandated and enforced by law to everyone equally, and that which you happen to disagree with. Maybe you should recognize that government should not define “marriage”. If you actually believe in human rights, then you should agree that if we aren’t going to get government out of the marriage business, then at least we can move in the right direction by allowing everyone equal access to this government program.

 

[buffalo]

I don’t advocate anyone sinning. I’m not an advocate of drinking to excess, reading/watching Porn, gossiping about one’s neighbor or coveting thy neighbor’s Porsche.

The only thing I would respectfully suggest is that having a same sex attraction doesn’t make me or anyone else a lesser human being or more inclined to sin or a sinner just by my existence. Often I get the impression that heterosexual Christians have reserved a special classification for us, while the only difference is HOW we are inclined to sin. My confessor says that there is no difference in the sin of Lust-it is the SAME sin whether you are lusting after someone of your own gender or the opposite gender.

I understand the difference between SSA and living the “gay” liefestyle.

 

[Polaris]

My husband and I work/ go to school at a state university. I understand why the Church views homosexuality as wrong, and I’m working hard to live that belief in my everyday life. I don’t. however, believe that sexuality is a choice. I think it’s something you’re born with.
However, before I came back to the Church, I had a LOT of gay friends. My sister is gay. In the environment I work in right now, “announcing” that I think gay marriage is wrong, etc, would seriously impact my job (most likely) and jeopardize just about every friendship I have. To most people I know, saying that you don’t believe in gay marriage would be the equivalent of saying you hate an entire race.
Moreover, my church used to be known as the “gay friendly parish”. We’ve gotten a new priest, but we still have a large homosexual population - including a friend of mine who lives with his boyfriend.
I don’t know what to say when people talk about gay rights. I don’t know how to deal with gay friends talking about their boyfriends, etc. In fact, I’m even scared to ask this question because I’m worried people will tell me to flat-out inform them they are living in sin. I love my friends, and I know that my telling them this would only make them feel betrayed and hurt - they aren’t going to go out and change.
I also have a friend who is working as a phone sex operator; all of my friends (the non-Catholic ones) believe in abortion … I’m a liberal. I don’t know what to say to them - especially since these were all people I knew before I returned to the Church.
How do I deal with these situations? How am I called to act? I try now just to love and not judge people. Is this okay?

I have no solutions, Im just in a very similar boat. My best living friend is gay and in a long term monogomous commited relationship. Which causes me many a mental trouble. Especialy when so many on the churches side say it is just based on lust and no true love. I know them both very well, I see the tenderness, the concern, the willingness to lay their life down for eachother, its not emotion its there. It also reminds me of my past life. My mind and heart says there is love there. How do I tell them when I dont even believe it, that they are just selfishly using eachother. I would have to say that my life was selfishness. Add to that the two other gay couples I know, one going on there 50th anniversery. Its hard for me to accept this teaching and the rhetoric surronding it, of them not wanting it and them being incappable of it. How do I explain this anomply of three in my small world. (Academia too )

 

[buffalo]

I have no solutions, Im just in a very similar boat. My best living friend is gay and in a long term monogomous commited relationship. Which causes me many a mental trouble. Especialy when so many on the churches side say it is just based on lust and no true love. I know them both very well, I see the tenderness, the concern, the willingness to lay their life down for eachother, its not emotion its there. It also reminds me of my past life. My mind and heart says there is love there. How do I tell them when I dont even believe it, that they are just selfishly using eachother. I would have to say that my life was selfishness. Add to that the two other gay couples I know, one going on there 50th anniversery. Its hard for me to accept this teaching and the rhetoric surronding it, of them not wanting it and them being incappable of it. How do I explain this anomply of three in my small world. (Academia too )

Brothers and sisters show the same thing. Strive for agape love.

Lewis warned in Four Loves that eros begins to be a demon the minute it becomes elevated to god status.

 

[Polaris]

Brothers and sisters show the same thing. Strive for agape love.

Lewis warned in Four Loves that eros begins to be a demon the minute it becomes elevated to god status.

Hello

How do you define eros elevated to god status.

Do you love your wife like a brother, or sister? I dont, so why or how do you love her differently. Why do you have sex with her? Was it only eros?

 

[buffalo]

Hello

How do you define eros elevated to god status.

Do you love your wife like a brother, or sister? I dont, so why or how do you love her differently. Why do you have sex with her? Was it only eros?

I believe it means when sex trumps the others. It is complementary not exclusive. Does that make sense?

 

[Polaris]

I believe it means when sex trumps the others. It is complementary not exclusive. Does that make sense?

I understand what you are trying to say but I do not see eros trumping the other in these relationships. ( Now I do see it other relationships. I do know one sterotypical gay and more than one jock, not my friends mind you, people I know that is all, though sometimes I wish I didnt. hehehe ) They are not having sex to make themselves feel good, they are not using the other, to them its a way to get closer, bond, show their love. They are mutually giving themselves to each other. Everything they have they give to the other. Now thats what I see and hear from how they talk about it and eachother.

 Also they share a view of marriage or union that is greater than even our church holds, that I honestly share on many levels too, though I do not mention it in the real world just the forum world :p .   Marriage or union is not something you throw away,  you work for it, and even after the other leaves for the next life you are still married,  just living in different states, till you can move to.  Not the classic and accepted   oh well its over and my promises mean nothing now, on to the next one.

One of the reasons he is my closest friends we are verymuch a like, in many things.

 

[buffalo]

I understand what you are trying to say but I do not see eros trumping the other in these relationships. ( Now I do see it other relationships. I do know one sterotypical gay and more than one jock, not my friends mind you, people I know that is all, though sometimes I wish I didnt. hehehe ) They are not having sex to make themselves feel good, they are not using the other, to them its a way to get closer, bond, show their love. They are mutually giving themselves to each other. Everything they have they give to the other. Now thats what I see and hear from how they talk about it and eachother.

 Also they share a view of marriage or union that is greater than even our church holds, that I honestly share on many levels too, though I do not mention it in the real world just the forum world :p .   Marriage or union is not something you throw away,  you work for it, and even after the other leaves for the next life you are still married,  just living in different states, till you can move to.  Not the classic and accepted   oh well its over and my promises mean nothing now, on to the next one.

One of the reasons he is my closest friends we are verymuch a like, in many things.

So, will gays be married in heaven?