Help with liturgy of the hours

[mercygate]

I have a question I’ll throw in here…

In my book for Psalm 95 it says that you are supposed to say the antiphon at every little break. You are supposed to do that for all the Psalms right?

When praying the Office in community, and Ps 95 is used as the invitatory, the antiphon is repeated as indicated.

When praying the Office in private, you may omit the repetitions and just use the antiphon at the beginning and the end. You may omit the repetition at the end if you wish.

 

[KarenElissa]

When praying the Office in community, and Ps 95 is used as the invitatory, the antiphon is repeated as indicated.

When praying the Office in private, you may omit the repetitions and just use the antiphon at the beginning and the end. You may omit the repetition at the end if you wish.

Right, but what about all the other Psalms, is it the same way?

 

[japhy]

I have a question I’ll throw in here…

In my book for Psalm 95 it says that you are supposed to say the antiphon at every little break. You are supposed to do that for all the Psalms right?

The invitatory Psalm lends itself to this method – the “responsorial psalm” method. However, the other psalmody throughout the Divine Office is normally done with the antiphon only at the beginning and end (after the doxology). See GILH, nn. 121-125, especially:
122. The psalms are sung or said in one of three ways, according to the different usages established in tradition or experience: directly (in diredum), that is, all sing the entire psalm, or antiphonally, that is, two choirs or sections of the congregation sing alternate verses or strophes, or responsorially.

1. At the beginning of each psalm its own antiphon is always to be recited, as noted in nos. 113-120. At the end of the psalm the practice of concluding with the Glory to the Father and As it was in the beginning is retained. This is the fitting conclusion endorsed by tradition and it gives to Old Testament prayer a note of praise and a Christological and Trinitarian sense. The antiphon may be repeated at the end of the psalm.

…

1. In addition, when the literary genre of a psalm suggests it, the divisions into strophes are marked in order that, especially when the psalm is sung in the vernacular, the antiphons may be repeated after each strophe; in this case the Glory to the Father need be said only at the end of the psalm.

 

[KarenElissa]

The invitatory Psalm lends itself to this method – the “responsorial psalm” method. However, the other psalmody throughout the Divine Office is normally done with the antiphon only at the beginning and end (after the doxology).

Ok, thanks!

 

[mercygate]

Right, but what about all the other Psalms, is it the same way?

When reciting the Office privately, the antiphon is said before the Psalm or canticle and may also be repeated after it. You do not repeat the antiphon after each strophe.

So you can pray:

Antiphon

Psalm (or canticle at MP & EP)
v
v
v
Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit; as it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever. Amen

Psalm prayer (may be omitted)

Antiphon (may be omitted)

 

[japhy]

Antiphon

Psalm (or canticle at MP & EP)
v
v
v
Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit; as it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever. Amen

Psalm prayer (may be omitted)

Antiphon (may be omitted)

The GILH (n. 202) suggests the Psalm-prayer be recited after the concluding antiphon: “… it is permissible, as occasion offers and prudence suggests, to have an interval of silence. It may come … after the repetition of the antiphon at the end of the psalm, in the traditional way, especially if the psalm-prayer is to be said after the pause.]”

 

[vocatio]

Maybe I misunderstood this, but our Franciscan Friar told us the most religious do not recite the Psalm Prayers. I will email him on this to see why or why not.

 

[mercygate]

Maybe I misunderstood this, but our Franciscan Friar told us the most religious do not recite the Psalm Prayers. I will email him on this to see why or why not.

A Franciscan told our Confraternity that some of the Psalm prayers border on heretical (perhaps too strong a statement) but in their community they omit them.

 

[AJV]

Maybe I misunderstood this, but our Franciscan Friar told us the most religious do not recite the Psalm Prayers. I will email him on this to see why or why not.

It could also depend on the liturgical books he uses. The non-ICEL Divine Office books (and accompanying “Daily Prayer” one volume) do not include the psalm prayers.

 

[vocatio]

That’s kind of what I understood him say. It will be days if not weeks before he responds to my email. He’s gone off to Franciscan University to upgrade his education for counseling.

He said something like “no self-respecting order would ever read the psalm prayers.” I know that it not exactly what he said, but rather what I understood him say in a class on the LOTH for lay people.

 

[ElizabethPH]

That’s kind of what I understood him say. It will be days if not weeks before he responds to my email. He’s gone off to Franciscan University to upgrade his education for counseling.

He said something like “no self-respecting order would ever read the psalm prayers.” I know that it not exactly what he said, but rather what I understood him say in a class on the LOTH for lay people.

I like the Psalm Prayers…I don’t think it makes me less religious???

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The psalm prayers are an ICEL addition. It is my understanding that they are optional since they are not a part of the official text.

 

[ElizabethPH]

The psalm prayers are an ICEL addition. It is my understanding that they are optional since they are not a part of the official text.

I have an official text and they are in there. It says ‘’‘Approved by the Episcopal Conferences of the Antilles… and the United States of America for the use in their dioceses and Confirmed by the Apostolic See"’ Correct me if I’m wrong is not the ICEL edition official??

I understand that the psalm prayers are optional.

 

[mercygate]

I have an official text and they are in there. It says ‘’‘Approved by the Episcopal Conferences of the Antilles… and the United States of America for the use in their dioceses and Confirmed by the Apostolic See"’ Correct me if I’m wrong is not the ICEL edition official??

I understand that the psalm prayers are optional.

The “official” text is always the Latin version. I understand the prayers aren’t in there.

As for the comment about “self respecting Religious Orders” not using them, it is likely a carry-over from the old Latin Breviary that did not have Psalm prayers.

 

[ElizabethPH]

The “official” text is always the Latin version. I understand the prayers aren’t in there.

As for the comment about “self respecting Religious Orders” not using them, it is likely a carry-over from the old Latin Breviary that did not have Psalm prayers.

So official text being different from official version/or approved version?

 

[mercygate]

So official text being different from official version/or approved version?

Ask me something I know. But I believe you are correct. For example, the “official” version of the Novus Ordo is in Latin, but we use an “approved” translation for Mass in the U.S.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Different religious orders have different traditions when praying the LOTH.

When I first joined the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites and was taught how to pray the LOTH, I found it strange, that in the Intercessory Prayer, when we say, “Glory Be to the Father and To the Son and to The Holy Spirit,” the last part, “as it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever,” is not said. Then, when I became formation director, I read an article written by an OCD Friar, who said that he didn’t know why, the rest of the Glory Be, isn’t said, and though it became tradition for OCD, it may have been by accident. He said it wouldn’t hurt to finish the Glory Be. So, at our next OCDS meeting, I suggested that we say the complete Glory Be. I was immediately jumped on by an older OCDS member, and she was irate that I would dare change OCD tradition. I had to back off and we said it, according to tradition.

Also, different orders will stand at different times.

Trappist, stand at the beginning hymn, until after the Antiphon for the 2nd Psalm. Then stand again, for the Glory Be, and remain standing until the Reading.
They also stand and bow every time the words, Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, are sung.
They sing the entire LOTH, BTW.

Jim

 

[mercygate]

Different religious orders have different traditions when praying the LOTH.

When I first joined the Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites and was taught how to pray the LOTH, I found it strange, that in the Intercessory Prayer, when we say, “Glory Be to the Father and To the Son and to The Holy Spirit,” the last part, “as it was in the beginning, is now and will be forever,” is not said. Then, when I became formation director, I read an article written by an OCD Friar, who said that he didn’t know why, the rest of the Glory Be, isn’t said, and though it became tradition for OCD, it may have been by accident.

Madeline Pecora Nugent in *The Divine Office for DODOS *did some research and says that nobody knows why the second half of the *Gloria Patri *is omitted.

He said it wouldn’t hurt to finish the Glory Be. So, at our next OCDS meeting, I suggested that we say the complete Glory Be. I was immediately jumped on by an older OCDS member, and she was irate that I would dare change OCD tradition. I had to back off and we said it, according to tradition.

So, it’s not just the OCD. As far as I know, NOBODY says it. I have prayed the Office in several different communities and NOBODY EVER says it.

Also, different orders will stand at different times.

Trappist, stand at the beginning hymn, until after the Antiphon for the 2nd Psalm. Then stand again, for the Glory Be, and remain standing until the Reading.
They also stand and bow every time the words, Glory Be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, are sung.
They sing the entire LOTH, BTW.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

mercygate

So, it’s not just the OCD. As far as I know, NOBODY says it. I have prayed the Office in several different communities and NOBODY EVER says it.

The Trappist do, but they don’t use the Breviary, but have their own text, which have a two week cycle, instead of four.

BTW, I made an error, its not during the Intercessory prayer, but the Responsorial. But you seem to understand what I was talking about.

Jim

 

[AJV]

Madeline Pecora Nugent in *The Divine Office for DODOS *did some research and says that nobody knows why the second half of the *Gloria Patri *is omitted.

So, it’s not just the OCD. As far as I know, NOBODY says it. I have prayed the Office in several different communities and NOBODY EVER says it.

Quite simply because that is the way it has always been said since at least the 8th century. One idea that might help in understanding, if not explaining it, is that the “Sicut erat” was a later addition to combat Arianism. It was even treated originally separately when the psalms were sung responsorially- i.e. Gloria Patri, then antiphon, then Sicut erat, then antiphon. I believe in the Byzantine tradition this is done quite often with the second half of their doxology (“Both now and ever…”) in places in the Office, the akathists, etc.