Help with liturgy of the hours

[mercygate]

Quite simply because that is the way it has always been said since at least the 8th century. One idea that might help in understanding, if not explaining it, is that the “Sicut erat” was a later addition to combat Arianism. It was even treated originally separately when the psalms were sung responsorially- i.e. Gloria Patri, then antiphon, then Sicut erat, then antiphon. I believe in the Byzantine tradition this is done quite with the second half of their doxology (“Both now and ever…”) in the Office, the akathists, etc.

Works for me!

 

[Tepeyac]

Quite simply because that is the way it has always been said since at least the 8th century. One idea that might help in understanding, if not explaining it, is that the “Sicut erat” was a later addition to combat Arianism. It was even treated originally separately when the psalms were sung responsorially- i.e. Gloria Patri, then antiphon, then Sicut erat, then antiphon. I believe in the Byzantine tradition this is done quite often with the second half of their doxology (“Both now and ever…”) in places in the Office, the akathists, etc.

Will Apel wrote about this in his book “Gregorian Chant”, pg. 182:

“The letter D in the above and in several subsequent schemes stands for the so-called Doxology (word of praise) : Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto: Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in secula seculorum. Amen. (literally: Glory be to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: as was in the beginning, and [is] now, and always, and in the ages of ages. Amen). At an early time this was added to Psalms as a final verse, and it survives in this position in various types of psalmody. In the Responsories it occurs in its older form, comprising only the first sentence, Gloria…Sancto.”

(My bold). In other words, it’s not that part of the Gloria Patri was dropped during the Responsories. It’s that “as it was in the beginning…” was never added to the Responsories in the first place.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Will Apel wrote about this in his book “Gregorian Chant”, pg. 182:

(My bold). In other words, it’s not that part of the Gloria Patri was dropped during the Responsories. It’s that “as it was in the beginning…” was never added to the Responsories in the first place.

Hmmm, this info would’ve helped back when I was reviewing this.
Even the OCD Friar who’s article I used, didn’t know this.

Thanks
Jim

 

[vocatio]

The Gloria Patri explanation use sounds similar to Fr. Serpa’s explanation on the development of the Hail Mary in the Rosary.

The Hail Mary was initially said with the first part, lat added word “Jesus” even later Sacta Marie, Mater Deir…etc. was added later but had always been believed just added to the prayer for some reason…probably to show orthodox believes /teachings from the beginning. A possibll rooting out of theological heresy. Don’t know what something to look into.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

From a practical point of view note that the Responsory is designed to be chanted antiphonally. When one does the Gloria Patri antiphonally one usually does it in two lines - right sings Gloria … and left sings Sicut erat . . . It is too long to be chanted in one line when compared to the other lines of the Responsory; also you need the echo effect that comes from contrasting the second line. The only way to do the whole thing would be to omit the repetition of the first line.

 

[MoreThan1Hat]

The Office can be extremely daunting – even for “smart people”. I always recommend The Divine Office for DODOS. It walks you through the process in 90 days of baby steps. At the moment it is out of print, but the new publisher will be coming out with a “new and improved” edition in February.

I, too, can recommend the DODOS book. I know the author personally and she recommended I get it to teach my son how to pray the Hours, which I did. He’s 10, btw. And through us praying it together my 8yo daughter and 7yo son also know how to pray Morning, Evening and Night Prayer.
I think there are so many people out there learning how to pray the Hours that I will have to change one of my nightly intentions to include everyone in a ‘blanket’ intention since I now have scads of names!