Help with my Jehova's Witness Brother

  • Thread starter Thread starter javier_29
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
javier_29:
Unfortunately, my brother has been sucked into the Jehova’s witness religion. I have been trying to reason with him but I’m afraid I might be too late. We have been e-mailing back and forth and I’m having a difficult time responding to his latest email which I will show here. Can somebody help me respond adequately??
Why can’t you let your brother have the faith that appeals to him? I mean if you two enjoy debating elements of faith thats one thing but it sounds like you are desparate to convert him to your views. Most people don’t appreciate others proselytizing.
 
40.png
Tlaloc:
Why can’t you let your brother have the faith that appeals to him? I mean if you two enjoy debating elements of faith thats one thing but it sounds like you are desparate to convert him to your views. Most people don’t appreciate others proselytizing.
It appears you have neither an experience of losing someone to a mind-control cult or enough empathy to feel the pain expressed here.

It would do you a lot of good to learn a little bit about the cult phenomena and mind-control techniques. We aren’t talking about a faith that appeals to anyone.

By the way, this was a Catholic board the last time I looked, it is only natural for Catholics to discuss this issue from that perspective. To be honest though I would be just as interested in helping a Lutheran/Baptist/Jewish/Buddhist or “you name it” family get their loved ones back. The Watchtower doesn’t discriminate, it will take advantage of anyone and everyone. Once the person is out of there and can recover rational judgement there is great hope.
 
40.png
Hesychios:
It appears you have neither an experience of losing someone to a mind-control cult or enough empathy to feel the pain expressed here.

It would do you a lot of good to learn a little bit about the cult phenomena and mind-control techniques. We aren’t talking about a faith that appeals to anyone.
Actually I have studied cults and brainwashing techniques a bit. And I hate to tell you this but virtually all religions include some aspects of brainwashing in them. Repetitive chants, rote memorization, music at certain frequencies to induce alpha wave states, deprivation of sleep or food, “love bombing”, etc

The point being that while you feel free to point at JW and cry “cult” I doubt you’d appreciate the same being done to your faith. So why not chill out and be, you know, tolerant. I’m pretty sure that was in the bible somewhere, maybe in an appendix.
By the way, this was a Catholic board the last time I looked, it is only natural for Catholics to discuss this issue from that perspective. To be honest though I would be just as interested in helping a Lutheran/Baptist/Jewish/Buddhist or “you name it” family get their loved ones back. The Watchtower doesn’t discriminate, it will take advantage of anyone and everyone. Once the person is out of there and can recover rational judgement there is great hope.
shrug
I’m pretty sure not all Catholics want to persecute other faiths.

What do they say about honey and vinegar?
 
Tlaloc,

I’m not Catholic; I’m Evangelical Christain; I don’t need to defend the Catholic Church in all areas. But, aren’t you attacking the wrong side here? doesn’t the logic expressed in your post require you to decry that Javier’s brother should have been bothered by the group in question in the first place?

Just for the record, how far do you want tolerence to go? Should we tolerate murderers and rapists because their fathers were mean to them? You see, the law is rather intolerent at times, isn’t it? There are certain absolutes which must be followed.

Tlaloc, to call this stuff persecution is sophistry. Persecution is what is going on in the Middle East. We are dealing in the areas of logic and spiritual persuation. There are no threats here. I am aware of only one religion that calls for the death penalty for those who “proseytize” their members back to their first faith; members who frequently were “Converted” from their first faith at the point of a sword.

Biblical Christianity is different than any other faith. No other Faith requires an evangelistic outreach based on love alone; love for God; love for people. Tlaloc, what you see in this thread is concern for people.

Back to truth for a minute. These are open discussions. Tlaloc, God loves you. He loves Javier’s brother. He loves with a great love.

Part of our belief requires us to reach out to others to offer God’s love. Just as HE has not forced that love on others, neither do we. All we can do is present the rational and spritual truths to show that what we beleive is true, and trust that God will give you the insight to see that we have spoken truly.

Part of that reaching out involves situations like the one being discussed in this thread. You see, Tlaloc, It breaks God’s heart when people who love him and want to follow him are being mislead by others who know (or should know) that they are not telling the truth about God. In my opinion, this is the case with the group in question. I have read their books, and can show you where they are quoting sources improperly. Twisting the words written by others to make it appear as if the original supports what they are saying. Can you beleive it: they even make try to make God’s Word say things it doesn’t say!!

Now, you have indicated that they should be left alone. Tlaloc, love for God, love for people like Javier’s brother; love for you requires that people who love God point these things out.

Point them out. try to persuade; thats all we can do. Tlaloc, God loves you; loves you so much that He is willing to let you decide this question yourself. HE will not force you; neither will His people. We cannot and will not deprive you of the choice God has so graciously given to you.

We just ask you to consider this: just suppose I am right; suppose that Javier’s brother has been misled into something that is wrong. That this will cause Javier’s brother serious problems now and for eternity. Isn’t that worth a little discussion?

Tlaloc, suppose I am right; isn’t that worth YOU giving this a little thought in your life? God loves you so much; He has given you a choice; Please, for His sake (and yours) use your choice wisely.

What do you think? Any thoughts to share???
 
Tlaloc,

It is only out of love that I want to help my brother. I believe the Catholic Church is the true church that Jesus Christ founded and we both grew up with the same beliefs so it is only natural for me to try to bring him back.

The reason I sound desperate is because he is trying to convert other family members. Fortunately most of my family is firmly grounded in the Catholic faith but my sister is starting to fall away.

So basically I’m not trying to persecute his religion but basically defending mine, not only for myself but for the rest of my family. Am I just to stand back and watch this happen?? I think not, so I ask for help on this forum because I realize that there are a lot of caring fellow Catholics that can provide feedback and advice.

In Christ
Javier
 
First of all, you must understand that once you get across to him who God really is, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, he may not return to the Catholic Church, but regardless of where he chooses to attend in the end it will not be JW’s.

First of all, you need to point out to him that Elohim is a plural and when God (Elohim) made man He created them plural.

You should take him to Isaiah 44:6 and ask him why Yahveh is speaking of Yahveh. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
You can look up many references to this. There are numerous ones all through the Bible if you care to investigate.
When he uses the verses that say “the Father is greater than I am” you can show him that it is the man Jesus not the Almighty that is speaking. You really need to do homework on this and you have to use the Bible. There is no way of getting around that. Honest.
I would love to help you out on this one. Jesus says and implies many times that He is God in the flesh, but you have to know the Scriptures to take him there and you have to have some knowledge of Greek or at least access to the definitions to show him. One other thing, they use mostly the same manuscripts that the Catholic Bible is based on, so you really need the Masoretic or Textus Receptus to show them.
Lord in the Old Testament usually refers to an earthly lord. LORD in the Old Testament always means Yahveh. In the New Testament, Christos means Christ or Messiah, and Curios means Almighty. This is why you need a good concordance. Strong’s is excellent on the most part, but a good lexicon helps.

You also need to remember that the people that did up their New World Translation didn’t know Greek or Hebrew. Go figure.

I hope this helps.
 
Javier,

Thank you for clarifying your purpose on your last post, and defending our Catholic faith from attacks by the JWs. I saw my own flesh and blood doing the same thing: regurgitating the lies they are fed at the Kingdom Hall.

It has taken me a years to understand what exactly the Watchtower (WT) is. The reason it took me years to understand the WT is because, I did not know my Catholic Faith and because I did not practice it. As adults, It is not enough to go rely on the basic catechism we received as kids.

Please consider what I am about to share with you about my experiences with the JWs. To help your bother and sister out of the WT, lets look at this clinically. Lets perform an “autopsy” as to why they fell away from the Church the Christ founded. Mt 16. These are just some of the questions you should answer to put things into perspective.

Were your parents praciticing Catholics?

Let me add a general comment here: Like most Latino families that immigrated to this blessed country, most of our parents had a marginal knowledge of the Catholic Faith. What do I mean by marginal? I mean, that they did not have a deep intellectual (educational) understanding of the Church. They had a much deeper spiritual relationship with God and the Church. The evidence of that this was and is more than enough is reflected in the fact that Mexico is still 97% Catholic and has produced more that its share of Martyrs for Christ. More evidence of this is reflected in the will of our people to cling to our Church despite corrupt government leaders, wars of independence against Spain and France, internal revolutions, and out right pursecution during the Cristero Rebellion in the late 1920s.

Sure, we saw our parents and grandparents, recite the rosary and go to mass faithfully, but somewhere, we, the first or second generation, lost our spiritual bearings once we encountered a different language, morality, customs, music and all sorts of other stimuli that can detract from our purpose in life.

When our parents, grandparents, lived in the old country, life was not as complex as it is today here in the U.S. So, they got by with their level of education, spirituality, and by the pure grace that God provided for them through the Sacraments.

It should have been enough for us too, but our imperfect human nature as it is, tends to lead us into doubt and to sin.

When we begin to doubt God and when we do not make an effort to live our Catholic faith, or when we do not bother to educate ourselves in the Church and the Bible – that is when we can be lead astray from our Catholic and Apostolic Faith.

In time, our ignorance of our Catholic Faith makes us sitting ducks for any JW or any other separated brethern group that happens to be knocking at our doors or attempting to save us.

When you, your brother and sister were growing up, how well did your family practice their faith?

**When your brother and now your sister started to study with the JWs, did they ask you or your parents questions? **

Did they seek or were they provided any answers from your parents, priests or nuns?

Did your bother and sister make any efforts to attend an adult catechism class and/or read the Bible on their own?


**What level of education did your brother and sister receive? High school, college, graduate school? **

Comment: This is important because, in general, the more education a person receives, the likelihood of a person developing and practicing critical thinking increases.

Cults like the WT, do not want their members to use this skill or ability.

While God made us to his likeness, he gave some people the natural ability to think critically without ever stepping inside a classroom. However, God also made some folks with a less ability in this area, and need to exercise their brains to develop this skill.

The cult machinations of the WT are much more sophisticated than most people think. I recommend that you understand the motives that drive a JW to remain in that group.

The WT utilizes a highly evolved series of behavior and thought reform system of rewards and punishments that I will go into latter.

Satan, is a very itelligent dude. He uses our ignorance and weakness to lead us away from the Truth. Just consider all the stimulus that is around us everyday, i.e. 700 cable TV channels, trash television, Jerry Springer, MTV, pornograhpy, cell phones, etc.

Why do you think they joined the JWs?

I hope this is useful. Your brother is Christ.

IHS,

Deltorero
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top