Help with public school providing sexual content to students

[Kei]

Well, if this is in violation of your rights as she didn’t let you sign any forms allotting such graphic content, then you can take it to thr school board.

 

[Rau]

Catholic teaching on sexuality basically conveys that, “Sex is a sin, unless you are married and making babies.”

Well, THAT’S not right! That would mean no sex after menopause. Your sources have misinformed you!

 

[Rau]

I find the “sex police” aspect of our Catholic Church…

I’ve never met a sex policeman, at any age. I presume you are really saying you object to moral teachings such as in connection with contraception?

 

[Rau]

No, I don’t object to the Church’s teaching on contraception, but Catholicism has more rules on sex than just contraception–waiting until marriage, chastity within marriage, how to complete and not to complete sexual intercourse, NFP, homosexuality, virginity, dating do’s and don’t’s, modesty in dress, appropriate gender models

The Church teaches that sexual expression belongs in marriage, which carries broad implications for pre-marital and extra-marital relations, same sex sexual relations and virginity. Do you take objection to any of these?

The Church also teaches that marital relations ought be ‘open to life’ - which carries implications for contraception (you indicate you agree with that teaching) & chastity within marriage and NFP as a means to seek or avoid a pregnancy.

I think you get the picture–the operative word is “NO”, until you either have about a dozen kids or you hit the age of 50

Huh?? To what question does the answer suddenly become “YES” when one has a dozen kids or attains 50 years?

I guess I am not seeing the source of your apparent consternation nor what you are trying to say in that last quote.

 

[Teek]

Catholic teaching on sexuality basically conveys that, “Sex is a sin, unless you are married and making babies.” And, that’s the end of the discussion as far as the Church is concerned.

I hate that you feel that way.

The Church is what taught me that sex is beautiful and something to be cherished. It is the only route to complete gift of self to and from another in the unity that God established that man might not be alone. It is this wonderful, grace filled gift from God. It is a sharing in God’s creative capacity as well as, in its fruition, a share in the interior reality of the Trinity.

The more sacred something is, the more rules and boundaries are placed around it to protect it. It isn’t that it is NO and sin and wrong except a narrow little bit of yes. It is that the fullest, most beautiful expression of love through sexuality is worth safeguarding. It can be cheapened and violated, and the more sacred something is, the more horrible it is for it to be profaned. So it is protected. Not because it is bad, but because of how good it is.

I think I learned all the same reasons and rules as you did. For some reason to me it was ennobling and uplifting and beautiful, while for you it was just shaming and restrictive. That is incredibly sad to me.

 

[poche]

Wouldn’t this at least border on sexual abuse?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

or you hit the age of 50–after that, they (the Church) pretty much leave you alone.

I’m over the age of 50 and I haven’t noticed the priest suddenly giving me a free pass to watch porn, masturbate, have a gay love affair or cheat on my husband. Just sayin’.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Wouldn’t this at least border on sexual abuse?

No. First of all, as defined by the law, sexual abuse generally involves an adult trying to have sex with a minor. There is no indication here that teacher was sexually interested in the students or was grooming them to have sex with her or another adult.

Second, the books that the teacher was teaching are established by those who judge such things as having literary merit. The sex in them is incidental to the overall story, so it’s not like she assigned kids to read porn. The question here is not the quality of the books, but whether the material is age-appropriate for the class in general and whether those kids and families sensitive to such material should have an alternative choice of book more in line with their values, rather than be forced to read material that in their view sends the wrong message and may upset sensitive kids.

 

[poche]

The way you described it it looks like this person is obsessed with presenting material that is full of sex in a way that makes your daughter uncomfortable. If I were to talk to a co-worker in that way that would be considered sexual harassment.

 

[Teek]

I read about the book you find objectionable.

Which is not the same as reading the book.

so, of course, to some extent, there is going to be references to puberty topics like fascination with the opposite sex, masturbation, etc.

The book contained discussions about the “g-spot” and how to find it, called the sexual act f~~~ing multiple times, as well as had the part that objectified the adult woman he admired (masturbation).

Is it necessary to present that sort of content to minors, even if you want to use a “coming of age book”? No.

Are there worse books out there that she could present? Oh yes! But that is not the issue. The issue is: Are there better books to use? And why aren’t we using those
books?

 

[Rau]

I think I probably hold a view on Church teachings about sex that is similar to many others both inside and outside of the Catholic Church. I am not shamed or restricted by it because, for me (and many others), it [church teaching on sexuality] is pretty much irrelevant

What does this mean?

 

[Teek]

Unfortunately, the discussion here seems to be so narrowly focused that the merits of this book have been completely ignored. And that, my friends, is sad.

The discussion here is not intended to fully explore the books, but to discuss whether it is appropriate for an adult to present a book with explicit sexual content to minors. It is not relevant that the adult has other merits that are being completely ignored, or the book has merits that are being completely ignored. That is periphery to the topic, not central.

In the reading you did about the book, it appears that the discussion of the book was so narrowly focused that the offensive elements have been completely ignored. And that, my friends, is dangerous.

 

[Teek]

I think I probably hold a view on Church teachings about sex that is similar to many others both inside and outside of the Catholic Church. I do not object to the Church’s teaching on sexuality. I am not shamed or restricted by it because, for me (and many others), it is pretty much irrelevant and, occasionally hypocritical (priest scandal).

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.”

Venerable Fulton J. Sheen

 

[Tis_Bearself]

What does this mean? A lot of us Catholics don’t necessarily practice what is preached. But this could and is a topic for other threads.

I agree. There are views the Church holds that I do not share, even though I choose at this point in my life to make an effort to live by the rules. But this is about the OP who does believe in particular rules, and her daughter, and their views need to be respected too.

 

[AngelusDomini]

I’m an English literature teacher in the U.K. and put a lot of thought into which books my students will study with me. I once selected the book Heroes by Cormier (a Catholic writer). That book has a rape scene but is so subtle and well written that it highlighted the shame felt by the victim and the desire to keep it hidden. Whilst I probably wouldn’t select In Cold Blood (and in reality couldn’t as it’s not a set text and there’s too much to cover) for a class of 15 year olds a lot of it comes down to how these works are studied and taking into consideration the emotional maturity of students.

 

[Teek]

I’d like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, whether they supported my viewpoint or were against it. I received great advice, offers for prayer, gentle correction, and (sometimes) not very gentle (at all!) correction.

All of it helped me to see this topic from all of the different angles. People who agreed gave me much needed support in doing what was right. People who disagreed helped me to see where my way of approaching the topic would actually work against what I was trying to do.

Thank you all, very much!

 

[adgloriam]

I think you are totally right Teek!!!

I would recommend “love and responsibility” by saint John Paul II…Certainly one of the best books I’ve read in my life [and I read about half a yard of books every year.] I’d guess the book had a fair contribution to getting Karol Woyjtila elected pope - and needless to say that is way above&beyond any literary prize!!..

Who ever reads “love and responsibility” is bulletproof against lasciviousness!!

 

[edwest211]

Totally inappropriate. No one is required or should be required to read these sorts of books. They are mentally damaging and desensitize the reader. Understanding evil doesn’t require a book. Just turn on the TV: death, killing, death, killing, random shootings and on and on. There is no MUST in this. Parental rights trump school administrators, principals and teachers. And evil comes in different degrees and different forms. I’ve seen it.

I’ve worked in the media long enough to watch it gradually desensitize people of all ages, year after year. Ingesting poison does nothing to help a person comprehend it. Most people who shoot other people in the US know each other.

The way to combat today’s evils is to know how they start.

https://www.amazon.com/Marketing-Evil-Pseudo-Experts-Corruption-Disguised/dp/1942475217

 

[Teek]

Ingesting poison does nothing to help a person comprehend it.

Great way of putting it!!

 

[sny]

There is a big difference between having these books in a school library and having them be required reading. In the first, the student has agency and can choose to stop reading if the book gets disturbing for them. That is not the case with the latter. Kids have varying maturity levels, and those books ARE considered classics. So. . . I think you will have much more support for your point of view if you focus on what is taught in the class and not what is in the school library.