Henry VIII and the Anglican Church

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You do know what MURDER is do you? :eek: Unless you think it is okay to glorify murder? And who is Hank anyway? Is its other name PRANKY?
 
Picky_Picky said:
Ta. I’ve corrected the bit about passing through the female line. If that were impossible Edmund of Langley’s Yorkist descendants would not have trumped Henry IV, V or VI, but they would have trumped Henry VII.
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Fess up. You know more about Hank than you usually let on, I’m betting.
 
friardchips said:
We are forgetting though that henry XIII might have confessed to multi-homicide before he died.

But where would he have gone to do this?
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Presumably one of his many priests?

Although he, in fact, didn’t. Supposedly squeezed Cranmer’s hand as a sign of faith, without Last Rites. Cranmer’s lot took it as a sign of the King’s final (and presumably predestined) commitment to the evangelical cause.
 
Novocastrian said:
Presumably one of his many priests?

Although he, in fact, didn’t. Supposedly squeezed Cranmer’s hand as a sign of faith, without Last Rites. Cranmer’s lot took it as a sign of the King’s final (and presumably predestined) commitment to the evangelical cause.
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You mean, messing around with the course of history for next how many hundred years causing all sorts of problems and divisions.

Well, it certainly wasn’t St. Thomas More’s hand he crushed and we all know why. The only reason I questioned whether 'enry The Ape, might have apologised, is because St. Thomas More, despite his awful death, gloriously resulting in martyrdom, was probably praying for his ex-friend during his execution and then in Heaven. So I wondered if there could have been a chance? We’d be talking about confessing to a lot of murder, mind you. But if he knew Catholic priests then maybe he did confess?!
 
friardchips said:
You mean, messing around with the course of history for next how many hundred years causing all sorts of problems and divisions.

Well, it certainly wasn’t St. Thomas More’s hand he crushed and we all know why. The only reason I questioned whether 'enry The Ape, might have apologised, is because St. Thomas More, despite his awful death, gloriously resulting in martyrdom, was probably praying for his ex-friend. So I wondered if there could have been a chance? We’d be talking about confessing to a lot of murder, mind you.
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I’m no Henry fan, either. That said, Kings have been confessing murder and being forgiven by God since at least old David himself, so I’m agnostic on the question of Henry’s eternal fate.
 
Novocastrian said:
I’m no Henry fan, either. That said, Kings have been confessing murder and being forgiven by God since at least old David himself, so I’m agnostic on the question of Henry’s eternal fate.
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Sure. Only our Creator is the Judge of history. 👍
 
GKC said:
Fess up. You know more about Hank than you usually let on, I’m betting.
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Well I hope I know just a little more than I let on: that, after all, is the safer position to be in. But as to the Plantagenets, the truth is I found the Wars of the Roses so confusing that the only recourse long ago was to get those bloodlines off by heart. I have Mortimers and Beauforts coming out of my ears.
 
Contarini said:
So it’s only “murder” when the other guys kill your guys. When your guys kill the other guys it’s just peachy?

Edwin
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This is what I was nodding towards with my King David remark. One of the absolutely fascinating things about the Bible is it’s honesty in presenting “our guys” as deeply flawed and occasionally downright evil.

The story begins with our first parents completely screwing up. Jacob is a cheat. Moses is a murderer. David has a guy killed so he can bed his wife, and presides over one of the most dysfunctional families imaginable. Even in the New Testament, Peter is headstrong and violent; Paul is basically a converted secret-police officer who continues to struggle with his own sin.
 
Novocastrian said:
This is what I was nodding towards with my King David remark. One of the absolutely fascinating things about the Bible is it’s honesty in presenting “our guys” as deeply flawed and occasionally downright evil.

The story begins with our first parents completely screwing up. Jacob is a cheat. Moses is a murderer. David has a guy killed so he can bed his wife, and presides over one of the most dysfunctional families imaginable. Even in the New Testament, Peter is headstrong and violent; Paul is basically a converted secret-police officer who continues to struggle with his own sin.
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don’t forget the first murder with Cain and Abel.
 
friardchips said:
You mean, messing around with the course of history for next how many hundred years causing all sorts of problems and divisions.

Well, it certainly wasn’t St. Thomas More’s hand he crushed and we all know why. The only reason I questioned whether 'enry The Ape, might have apologised, is because St. Thomas More, despite his awful death, gloriously resulting in martyrdom, was probably praying for his ex-friend during his execution and then in Heaven. So I wondered if there could have been a chance? We’d be talking about confessing to a lot of murder, mind you. But if he knew Catholic priests then maybe he did confess?!
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More didn’t get to the position of the King’s closest adviser by being a shrinking violet. He actually used to have heretics tortured at his home to save him travelling. They were a merry lot
 
friardchips said:
Sure. Only our Creator is the Judge of history. 👍
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Mary might have had to make some confessions also. we can’t judge how they lived their lives at that time in history. the crimes of ISIS today has been commonplace in other periods of history. we consider it uncivilized and barbaric by today’s standards.
 
JimmyG88 said:
More didn’t get to the position of the King’s closest adviser by being a shrinking violet. He actually used to have heretics tortured at his home to save him travelling. They were a merry lot
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I hope his home had a dungeon then. It would be hard to explain to one’s wife that those stains on the sofa were regrettable but necessary.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Mary might have had to make some confessions also. we can’t judge how they lived their lives at that time in history. the crimes of ISIS today has been commonplace in other periods of history. we consider it uncivilized and barbaric by today’s standards.
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Yes, that was a topic of a thread I was thinking of starting, whether there is such a thing as moral progress. It certainly seems so, but doesn’t that contradict original sin?
 
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