Here are some of the false charges made against the Catholic Church, and the replies of truth to those charges:

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*The Catholic Church is not the Church which Jesus Christ founded.
Okay, then please give me the name of the Church which He did found, since it must still be here, as He did promise that His Church would last forever, did He not? Matthew 28:20. Did Jesus lie?
Also, since every Church on earth was founded by a person with a name, please name the person who did found the Catholic Church if it was not Jesus Christ? Oh, and please do not forget to include the genuine historical document(s) to back up what you say?
 
BILL PICK said:
*The Catholic Church is not the Church which Jesus Christ founded.
Okay, then please give me the name of the Church which He did found, since it must still be here, as He did promise that His Church would last forever, did He not? Matthew 28:20. Did Jesus lie?
Also, since every Church on earth was founded by a person with a name, please name the person who did found the Catholic Church if it was not Jesus Christ? Oh, and please do not forget to include the genuine historical document(s) to back up what you say?
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yeah, it kinda doesn’t make sense that His true Church would come along 1500 years after He left Earth… :rolleyes:

but then some say the Church was the right Church but it apostatized… hmmm… If it was the true Church, that wouldn’t have been allowed by God to happen… What - God is not powerful enough to protect his Church from its sinful members???

God bless… 🙂
 
I like Jesus’ last words in the Gospel of Matthew: “I will be with you always, even to the end of the ages.”

Clearly the ‘end of the ages’ means the end of the world. And if Jesus is with the Church until the very end, than how could the Church have apsotaized? Or been forgotten? Or just vanished?
 
What if the ‘church’ was the invisible community of believers and not a corruptible institution?
 
Eucharisted said:
I like Jesus’ last words in the Gospel of Matthew: “I will be with you always, even to the end of the ages.”

Clearly the ‘end of the ages’ means the end of the world. And if Jesus is with the Church until the very end, than how could the Church have apsotaized? Or been forgotten? Or just vanished?
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and he is “with us” in a very real and tangible way (the Real Presence)… Protestants are really missing out not having THAT… How can they know Jesus at all without that??? I don’t feel i would… I’d still be out there floundering if it weren’t for that… (i know myself … [somewhat… 😃 ])
 
distracted said:
and he is “with us” in a very real and tangible way (the Real Presence)… Protestants are really missing out not having THAT… How can they know Jesus at all without that??? I don’t feel i would… I’d still be out there floundering if it weren’t for that… (i know myself … [somewhat… 😃 ])
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I know him through his word and through prayer.
 
grampben said:
What if the ‘church’ was the invisible community of believers and not a corruptible institution?
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THE CHURCH IS THE BODY OF ALL BEIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST,THE FIRST CHURCH WAS AND IS THE CC.
DOES THIS HELP YOU AT ALL
 
grampben said:
What if the ‘church’ was the invisible community of believers and not a corruptible institution?
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This is what Catholics believe about the Catholic Church. I’m not arguing you have to beleive this, but just letting you know what Catholics believe:

Jesus Christ is God and Man. What He was visibly mirrored what He was invisibly, and what He was invisibility animated what He was visibility; that is to say, Jesus’ Humanity was the image of His Divinity, and His Divinity animated His Humanity, so that all His works, words, and prayers were divine - because He is a Divine Person, not a human person, in light of the union of the Divinity and Humanity in the Son, the second Person of the Trinity.

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, and we who belong to her are members of the Body, just as an arm is a member of the human body. Jesus Christ is the Head of the Body. Now, because the Church is the Body of Christ, the Church is visible and invisible, Divine and human: what she is visibly shows what she is invisibility, and what she is invisibly animates what she is visibly: that is, the members of the Church (the humanity of the Church) are called to imitate Jesus, and the Lord Himself (the Divinity of the Church) animates the members, so that all the good works, prayers, and teachings of the Church are divine - because the Church is a Divine Institution, not a human institution, in light of the union of God and His People in the Holy Eucharist, the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
 
grampben said:
I know him through his word and through prayer.
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If you know Him that well, then why do you not believe it when He said: “Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you”? And why did that saying drive many away? And why did He not say “Hey guys, come back! I was only kidding…” And when He said, “This IS My Body” and “This IS My Blood”? Do you not believe Jesus meant what He said then? Or are you pulling a Bill Clinton and saying it depends on what the meaning of “is” is? God forbid!
 
“I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 16:19). In order for that to happen the Church must be real and visible not a formless mass.
“Refer it to the Church” (Matt. 18:17). Again, the Church must be visible. How could you refer something to an invisible church?
The selection of books for the bible was accomplished by bishops part of the authoritative visible Church.,
 
ricko said:
“I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 16:19). In order for that to happen the Church must be real and visible not a formless mass.
“Refer it to the Church” (Matt. 18:17). Again, the Church must be visible. How could you refer something to an invisible church?
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I think Calvinists would say something like this: “Christian” may mean:​

  • professing Christian; IOW, Christian in men’s eyes
  • someone who is Christian in God’s eyes.
    The visible Church contains both groups. The invisible Church consists only of the second group (who are known to God even if not to man). It is not confined to the boundaries of the visible Church, but includes all those foreordained to salvation.
As for Matt 18.17: that would amount to going to the visible Church; or more precisely, to a local manifestation of it. Church authority would still exist - a non-elect man might not be in favour with God, but his standing before God would not deprive him of authority.

Some groups do think that lack of grace means lack of authority - Calvin did not think this, & neither does Calvinism. Wycliffe did, interestingly enough.
The selection of books for the bible was accomplished by bishops part of the authoritative visible Church.,
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BILL PICK said:
*The Catholic Church is not the Church which Jesus Christ founded.
Okay, then please give me the name of the Church which He did found, since it must still be here, as He did promise that His Church would last forever, did He not? Matthew 28:20. Did Jesus lie?
Also, since every Church on earth was founded by a person with a name, please name the person who did found the Catholic Church if it was not Jesus Christ? Oh, and please do not forget to include the genuine historical document(s) to back up what you say?
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Read the Book of Acts and 1 Corinthians and you will see that the 21st century Catholic Church dowes not resemble the 1st century church.
 
justinkolo said:
If you know Him that well, then why do you not believe it when He said: “Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life within you”? And why did that saying drive many away? And why did He not say “Hey guys, come back! I was only kidding…” And when He said, “This IS My Body” and “This IS My Blood”? Do you not believe Jesus meant what He said then? Or are you pulling a Bill Clinton and saying it depends on what the meaning of “is” is? God forbid!
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You assume I don’t believe in the real presence.
 
Hisalone said:
Read the Book of Acts and 1 Corinthians and you will see that the 21st century Catholic Church dowes not resemble the 1st century church.
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But why should I just read the Sacred Scripture (all 73 books of the bible) to see how the first century Church was formed. What came first, the church or the bible? What is known as Sacred Scripture today, though it was around in various forms until then, wasn’t even formed until 393 AD, at the Council of Hippo, when “the Catholic Bible” was canonized. During the 300 or so years since the Church was formed, there were many other writings and documents that were issued very close to the founding of Christ’s Church on Earth, and they all describe the Catholic Church. Yes, the terminology for doctrine might be different due to evolutions in language, but the beliefs are all there. These beliefs have continued, unchanged for 2000 years. It wasn’t until the 1500’s when someone decided that 7 books weren’t “important enough” to leave them where they were in the bible, and so they were indexed. Later, denominations that have decended from Protestantism and Reformation just left them out completely. Growing up in mostly Protestant Southern US, I didn’t even know that there were “extra” books of the bible until I was 12… but I digress.

One cannot fully understand history by just looking at a few facts. It’s like trying to see what a picture is by just looking at a pixel here and there. It may be a great foundation, but just having a foundation does not make a house. It wasn’t until I started learning the fullness of truth, that’s been passed down for over 2000 years, that’s protected by the Holy Spirit from error (Jesus promised 🙂 ), did I realize how much I had missed out on being raised Presbyterian. But it makes me appreciate it now that much more, so not all is bad.

God Bless!
Ericka
 
BILL PICK said:
*The Catholic Church is not the Church which Jesus Christ founded.
Okay, then please give me the name of the Church which He did found, since it must still be here, as He did promise that His Church would last forever, did He not? Matthew 28:20. Did Jesus lie?
Also, since every Church on earth was founded by a person with a name, please name the person who did found the Catholic Church if it was not Jesus Christ? Oh, and please do not forget to include the genuine historical document(s) to back up what you say?
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You are assuming that His church must be one and only one denomination.

Even if I were to accept this assumption, which I do not, I still would not know what the real church is.

How do I know for sure it would not be the Orthodox?
 
ericka1701 said:
But why should I just read the Sacred Scripture (all 73 books of the bible) to see how the first century Church was formed. What came first, the church or the bible? What is known as Sacred Scripture today, though it was around in various forms until then, wasn’t even formed until 393 AD, at the Council of Hippo, when “the Catholic Bible” was canonized.
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Ericka you are sadly mistaken here. The council of Hippo confirmed what was already believed to be the true canon. It’s not like the council of Hippo sat down and determined what books would be canonized, then distributed that list to the churches. The canonized list was in part determined by looking at what the churches were already reading and had accepted as inspired. Given that all scripture was completed probably by 70AD although some may argue a few works like revelation came later, the churches had copies in their possession and were reading them as part of their worship. Since the Apostles were mostly dead before the end of the first century and in some cases well before the end of the first century, the churches were grasping for their teachings.

Because of the heretics that were invading the church like the Gnostics and specifically Marcion, Ignatius pushed for a canonized list in the early 2nd century. Point in fact Ignatius vouched for the Gospels of John and Luke citing them as being genuine works. By the time the council of Hippo came together the canonized books were already determined.
During the 300 or so years since the Church was formed, there were many other writings and documents that were issued very close to the founding of Christ’s Church on Earth, and they all describe the Catholic Church. Yes, the terminology for doctrine might be different due to evolutions in language, but the beliefs are all there. These beliefs have continued, unchanged for 2000 years. It wasn’t until the 1500’s when someone decided that 7 books weren’t “important enough” to leave them where they were in the bible, and so they were indexed. Later, denominations that have decended from Protestantism and Reformation just left them out completely. Growing up in mostly Protestant Southern US, I didn’t even know that there were “extra” books of the bible until I was 12… but I digress.
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And again you are mistaken here. It’s true many writings existed in the first 3 hundred years. Even more so in the first 150 years. But many were false writings of individuals using the names of the Apostles and cannot be used to justify doctrines of Faith. The infancy Gospel of James is a classic example. The church never accepted this work as inspired nor historically accurate. It was flat out rejected and is dated to the middle 2nd century. Yet the RC today for some reason uses it to justify some of the teachings on Mary.

As far as the additional books you cite, I would suggest you read some material on these to find out why they shouldn’t be included as canon. Disputations on Holy Spirit Scripture written in the 1500s provides ample proof that these works simply do not belong as part of the canon. Too much to say and too little space.
One cannot fully understand history by just looking at a few facts. It’s like trying to see what a picture is by just looking at a pixel here and there. It may be a great foundation, but just having a foundation does not make a house. It wasn’t until I started learning the fullness of truth, that’s been passed down for over 2000 years, that’s protected by the Holy Spirit from error (Jesus promised 🙂 ), did I realize how much I had missed out on being raised Presbyterian. But it makes me appreciate it now that much more, so not all is bad.
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God Bless!
Ericka
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And history is much different than doctrines of faith.

PEACE
 
distracted said:
yeah, it kinda doesn’t make sense that His true Church would come along 1500 years after He left Earth… :rolleyes:

but then some say the Church was the right Church but it apostatized… hmmm… If it was the true Church, that wouldn’t have been allowed by God to happen… What - God is not powerful enough to protect his Church from its sinful members???

God bless… 🙂
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Whether or not GOD allowed sinful members in the church is not to say that the Catholic Church or any church is the right church. What says it’s not the right church is the teachings, traditions both orally and written. GOD allows such sin anywhere is because HE uses it to test HIS people.
 
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