Here is what I think about homosexuality and Christianity

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Stephen168 said:
That is right. Whatever our democratically elected officials decide is true must be believed as the truth. All private beliefs will no long we tolerated.
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No one is forcing you to stop being catholic, or forcing you to be a homosexual. Give me a break.
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
I am an Episcopalian who has been wrestling with this issue for a long time. I am not gay, but the issue has vexed me for a long time.

I recognize that there are many gays and lesbians who are in committed relationships, and that many of these relationships are markedly superior to some married heterosexual relationships. And I recognize that it is not likely possible to switch from being gay to being straight.

So, I have wrestled with this a great deal. Frankly, the prohibitions in Leviticus are not that pursuasive, as the law of the ancient Hebrews reflected a need to procreate in family units in order to preserve the race.

But the world of Jesus and of St. Paul was a very different time. It was as cosmopolitan as our world of today. Survival of any race was not a issue then or now. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He said nothing. Nothing. Nothing.
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We don’t know what Jesus said about homosexuality. If he said anything (and he probably did considering the Greek and Roman influences around him), it wasn’t recorded. According to our tradition, Jesus ministered for 3 years, and yet the NT is far too small to indicate a three year time period. If he said anything about homosexuality, it is lost in the mists of time. However, Paul did say quite a bit about it.

You also wrote “I recognize that there are many gays and lesbians who are in committed relationships, and that many of these relationships are markedly superior to some married heterosexual relationships.” How would these relationships be markedly superior to straight marriages? Here in Canada, gay marriage is sadly allowed. Most of them of my acquaintance have ended in divorce, and quite soon after the “wedding” (less than 1 year, one even less than 1 month).
 
So, the argument is from an arugment of silence with no precedent in the bible or tradition?

Seems rather weak to me.
 
StrawberryJam said:
So, the argument is from an arugment of silence with no precedent in the bible or tradition?

Seems rather weak to me.
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Which argument are you talking about? Quote the text you are referencing so we can follow.
 
Barry_Gabriel said:
See? That’s not hard. Now, what did I post that you find odd?
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I edited my post, and apologize for not being clear. I am trying to see what the basis is for believing this is okay, and when you said that Jesus did not say anything, I wondered if that is the basis for some groups to approve homosexual unions, from an argument of silence on his part.

I don’t disagree with you, but I am asking people if they think the silence of Jesus on the matter supports a pro homosexual union. I don’t think it does.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I edited my post, and apologize for not being clear. I am trying to see what the basis is for believing this is okay, and when you said that Jesus did not say anything, I wondered if that is the basis for some groups to approve homosexual unions, from an argument of silence on his part.

I don’t disagree with you, but I am asking people if they think the silence of Jesus on the matter supports a pro homosexual union. I don’t think it does.
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Ah, I see. Of course inferred silence by Our Lord does not support gay unions. Just because something wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean it wasn’t said. Considering the time and the culture, it would have been most unusual for Jesus not to have said anything on the subject. Using the argument that he said nothing about homosexuality in scripture is just plain stupid, with a lack of follow-through in the analysis.

Most groups who approve of gay unions seem to be coming from a current perspective, namely that in 2001 such things should be allowed and that we shouldn’t be bigoted against such proclivities. I daresay most of these people don’t adhere to their faith very much either, but that’s just a guess and I might be wrong…
 
Barry_Gabriel said:
Ah, I see. Of course inferred silence by Our Lord does not support gay unions. Just because something wasn’t recorded doesn’t mean it wasn’t said. Considering the time and the culture, it would have been most unusual for Jesus not to have said anything on the subject. Using the argument that he said nothing about homosexuality in scripture is just plain stupid, with a lack of follow-through in the analysis.

Most groups who approve of gay unions seem to be coming from a current perspective, namely that in 2001 such things should be allowed and that we shouldn’t be bigoted against such proclivities. I daresay most of these people don’t adhere to their faith very much either, but that’s just a guess and I might be wrong…
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I can’t find much- correction any approval of this in the ECF’s either. It seems this would be a foriegn concept in christian tradition.
 
Listen. Bottom line here is Christ already knows what you are to become before you are born. As a child finds out he is gay at such a young age, if he suddenly died, I doubt God would send him straight to hell. God loves everyone regardless. People need to realize this and treat gays as they would treat themselves, with respect and kindness, as stated in our Catechism.
 
StrawberryJam said:
I can’t find much- correction any approval of this in the ECF’s either. It seems this would be a foriegn concept in christian tradition.
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Quite so, but hey! We gotta get with the times! I’ll be marrying my dog next week and you’re all invited!:whacky:
 
StrawberryJam said:
I can’t find much- correction any approval of this in the ECF’s either. It seems this would be a foriegn concept in christian tradition.
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Yep, I’ve come across the ECF’s talking about it from time to time. Although one thing that should be kept in mind is that they never attack the sinner, only the sin. Unfortunetly many groups forget this and attack gay people themselves.
 
Nine_Two said:
Yep, I’ve come across the ECF’s talking about it from time to time. Although one thing that should be kept in mind is that they never attack the sinner, only the sin. Unfortunetly many groups forget this and attack gay people themselves.
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That would be unfortunate and not something I could ever agree with or condone.

I can’t find ECF’s condoning this, nor would I expect them to endorse attacks on those who are homosexual.

My questions about animals that are homosexual have no bearing on this, in this thread yet it does make me wonder if I should ask those who are christian to tell me why penguins and flamingos can be homosexual. I’m sure there are other animals that are or were. So much to think about when we add God to the mix.🙂
 
Barry_Gabriel said:
Quite so, but hey! We gotta get with the times! I’ll be marrying my dog next week and you’re all invited!:whacky:
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You must live in florida…can you believe that bestiality is legal there??

You might also be interested to read:

“The conservatives are fully intolerant. The only way we can beat them, is to push them completely into submission. That’s why, next year, we’re going to push for new laws framed as “libertarian” laws. Conservatives love to call themselves libertarians. This will of course open the way for all kinds of sodomy, all kinds of sex toys, orgies, and of course, sex with animals. Once we’ve legalized sex with animals, we’ll know that the Christian Right cannot attack us anymore. Many of you do not have sex with animals, but I still feel that it is important that we push this issue, because it will open the door for our lifestyle choice.
Sincerely,
Barney Frank”

But who IS Barney Frank?

“Massachusetts Representative Barney Frank, an acknowledged homosexual, today confirmed that his Washington apartment had been used as a callboy headquarters by a male prostitute for a year and a half until late 1987.”

Just some trivia…it all goes hand in hand…
 
StrawberryJam said:
That would be unfortunate and not something I could ever agree with or condone.

I can’t find ECF’s condoning this, nor would I expect them to endorse attacks on those who are homosexual.

My questions about animals that are homosexual have no bearing on this, in this thread yet it does make me wonder if I should ask those who are christian to tell me why penguins and flamingos can be homosexual. I’m sure there are other animals that are or were. So much to think about when we add God to the mix.🙂
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So, and forgive me Strawberry I’m not speaking to YOU…you know what I mean??

But, firstly I’ve never heard of flamingos or penguins being homosexual…I’ve seen a lot of documentaries on penguinos and never heard that…I’m very familiar with their mating patterns, etc… so… :confused:

But anyways, why would you compare yourself to any animal? were NOT animals?? we have a higher level of intelligence, we have creative and artistic abilities…a dog will eat cat poop-

I know some animals can be, A-sexual…but I think thats pretty much in situations where their existence depends on it…not like, ‘oh, theres a male over there, but I think I’d rather impregnate myself…’

If I’m wrong, correct me…of course I dont have all the answers, but I would never go so far as using a sea horse to validate my sex life, we are VERY DIFFERENT creatures…

aha ahah ah a…you know what I hear ALL the time on this website?? And I swear it drives me crazy, but its PERFECT for right now?? LMBO…

-Its like comparing apples and oranges-
 
If I marry my cat - can I get a tax deduction?

Seriously, 10 different people will give you 10 different interpretations of what the bible says. So, I read the bible, but refer to church teaching on particular issues.

John Marie Philomena
 
Cominghome89 said:
This is true, but we do live in a country that is not only predominantly Christian (in name anyway), but also one that makes marriage a matter of public law, as well as a financial issue. Now, if a majority of this country does not believe gay marriage is indeed marriage, then I think the claim that this relationship should not be supported by law (as well as tax money, in the form of tax breaks meant to raise a family, etc.) is valid.
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Not sure what you’re trying to say. When it comes to rights, majority does not rule, or else the South states would still be segregated (the majority of the population of those states rejected civil rights for blacks).

Put another way, does the fact that a majority of the American population supports abortion rights therefore make abortion okay?
 
Stephen168 said:
That is right. Whatever our democratically elected officials decide is true must be believed as the truth. All private beliefs will no longer be tolerated.
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Sarcasm aside, that is not what I would propose. You can still hold whatever theological belief you want regarding homosexual marriage. However, State and Federal governments should not inhibit the rights of a minority segment of our population based on the religious beliefs of the majority.
 
cheese_sdc said:
Sarcasm aside, that is not what I would propose. You can still hold whatever theological belief you want regarding homosexual marriage. However, State and Federal governments should not inhibit the rights of a minority segment of our population based on the religious beliefs of the majority.
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It’s more basic than a religious belief, it’s a natural law. This is something understood even by the ancient Greeks, who also didn’t allow gay marriage even though they had no religious basis to ban it. They banned gay marriage as a matter of practicality. They understood natural law, marriage was an instatution for a man and woman to come together and bare and raise childeren. Homosexuality doesn’t do this, it’s sexuality which has no purpose other than selfishness.

Bare in mind, the ancient greeks actually encouraged homosexuality as they were actually saw women on that low regard. I can’t remeber which philosipher was credited, maybe playto or aristotle, but it was said “how can you love a woman, that’s like loving a cow”. And yet, they did not allow gay marriage. Why? It voilates natural law.
 
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