Here is what I think about homosexuality and Christianity

[benidict]

Nothing inherently wrong? Perhaps to you, but certainly not according to the Bible.

Matthew 19:3 Some Pharisees approached Him to test Him(Jesus). They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife on any grounds?” (D)

4 "Haven't you read," He replied, "that He who created [a] them in the beginning made them male and female , (E) (F) 5 and He also said:

For this reason a man will leave

his father and mother

and be joined to his wife,

and the two will become one flesh ? (G) (H)

6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, man must not separate."

7 "Why then," they asked Him, "did Moses command [us] to give divorce papers (I) and to send her away?"

8 He told them, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because of the hardness of your hearts. But it was not like that from the beginning. 9 And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."

---

Above tells you clearly that God made one man to one woman. NOT Polygamy. Divorce & polygamy springs from lusts and the hardness of hearts.

actually my friend… moses who you quote, was either a polygamist, or he was divorced and remarried. either way you cut it he had two wives. david a man after Gods own heart? or how about jacob? by the way, what is your denominational affiliation? dont have to reveal it. im just curious. and i doubt traveling around in the desert for 40 years made moses lustful.

 

[Mosacked]

actually my friend… moses who you quote, was either a polygamist, or he was divorced and remarried. either way you cut it he had two wives. david a man after Gods own heart? or how about jacob? by the way, what is your denominational affiliation? dont have to reveal it. im just curious. and i doubt traveling around in the desert for 40 years made moses lustful.

You use the ways of man to judge the way of God?

So, you are saying you would join Miriam in stoning Moses at the tent because of his marriage? And because David slept with Bathsheba, you are alright in sleeping with your neighbor’s wife??? Afterall, he is a man after…??? What you say?

You must be out of your mind. Who makes righteous? God. Not you. These men were deemed righteous by God by virtue of their faith.

**If my father tells me not to drive, I don’t drive. But if I drive, and I get in an accident, and my father forgives me for it, it doesn’t mean YOU can drive. ** Get it? Not only are you distant, you don’t even know what you’re talking about…but you talk and your friends of like ignorance claps for you.

.

 

[benidict]

You use the ways of man to judge the way of God?

So, you are saying you would join Miriam in stoning Moses at the tent because of his marriage? And because David slept with Bathsheba, you are alright in sleeping with your neighbor’s wife??? Afterall, he is a man after…??? What you say?

You must be out of your mind. Who makes righteous? God. Not you. These men were deemed righteous by God by virtue of their faith.

**If my father tells me not to drive, I don’t drive. But if I drive, and I get in an accident, and my father forgives me for it, it doesn’t mean YOU can drive. ** Get it? Not only are you distant, you don’t even know what you’re talking about…but you talk and your friends of like ignorance claps for you.

.

this is going to be soo much fun. answere the question then. what denominational affiliation are you? i can go all night. its only 10:43 where im at

 

[Mosacked]

this is going to be soo much fun. answere the question then. what denominational affiliation are you? i can go all night. its only 10:43 where im at

Why do people like yourself always ask “Who are you? Where are you from”?

Its the same thousands of years ago and its the same today.

.

 

[benidict]

Why do people like yourself always ask “Who are you? Where are you from”?

Its the same thousands of years ago and its the same today.

.

ok you win,ill just refer to you as fundy. short for fundamentalist. is that alright with you?

 

[benidict]

Why do people like yourself always ask “Who are you? Where are you from”?

Its the same thousands of years ago and its the same today.

.

apparently past your bedtime. ok. we shall continue in the morning.God bless you and yours.

 

[benedictus2]

LOL! i cannot believe this. where do they draw a correlation between these passages and homosexuality? this really makes no sense to me either. peace be unto you.

Just shows you the depth of the depravity. They are willing to even pervert the truth to support their sin.

 

[benedictus2]

What is sexuality in the kingdom of God? NOTHING. According to Jesus, the people in the age to come, neither marry nor are given in marriage.

But we are not there yet are we. In this life we still marry.

Or do you expect God to condemn someone just because he/she is born a homosexual?

No. But God condemns the homosexual act. It’s one thing to be inclined towards it, it’s another thing to give in to it.

Wouldn’t that be disqualifying the right to live for someone or something that was not born in the naturally right state? If that be the case, then the paraplegic, the conjoined twins, the born blind should all be made still births because they were all not born in the naturally ‘right’ state.

Oh but they were born in the natural state. With defects yes. But they were natural.

How do we worship God? Jesus said in TRUTH & SPIRIT.

Yes. But we worship Him bodily because we have a body. We are one whole human being so our worship is as one whole human being not a dichotomy of body and soul.

Did not even the eunuch receive revelation while in the carriage? Was God concerned with his lack of ‘male-ness’??? NO.

But it is not the lack of maleness that is in question here. It the evil practice of homosexual intercourse.

Yet, that said, homosexuals shall not inherit the kingdom, just like Adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom. Because both have transgressed against the boundaries of faithfulness. And nothing unclean will ever enter heaven.

Not quite true. What did Jesus say about the prostitutes preceding the pharises into heaven?

There is ample forgiveness. But one must first concede that something is a sin before one can ask for forgiveness. The problem is a lot of people think the homosexual act is all oky so it is not a sin, so does not require forgiveness.

How? you ask. Homosexuals trespass the natural state of things, not by their birth, but by their practices.

God will not penalise you for what you cannot control (born that way), but God expects restrain at the very least for what you can, and not just for the homosexuals but also for the heterosexuals. Or do you think that you can wallow in sex like the pagans do and enter heaven?

Well said.

 

[gmcbroom]

I know that GOD isn’t found of homosexual behavior however, before someone starts cast stones at people I’d like to refer everyonr to a part in the Bible that cocerns the harlot. I believe its towards the end of the Bible. In that story GOD actually admits to showing mercy to Sodom. I use this as an example to show that as wrathful as GOD can be he’s mercy is also without limits.

 

[benedictus2]

I know that GOD isn’t found of homosexual behavior however, before someone starts cast stones at people I’d like to refer everyonr to a part in the Bible that cocerns the harlot. I believe its towards the end of the Bible. In that story GOD actually admits to showing mercy to Sodom. I use this as an example to show that as wrathful as GOD can be he’s mercy is also without limits.

Yes. God’s mercy is without limits. But it is precisely because God abhors sin that He has mercy on the sinner that the sinner may repent.

How can one repent if one thinks that sin is not really sin.

This is why we need to form the right conscience.

 

[Charlotte408]

Where is that passage…cuz I dont understand how did God showed ‘mercy’ on Sodom, when he took em’ out?? Didn’t He burn Sodom down in an acid rain of fire or something!!!
How is God’s mercy applied in this situation?

Could it be, that maybe He knew that they were all too twisted in their minds to give up all their ‘ways’…so He put them down…kinda like putting a wounded animal down…?

 

[GratefulFred]

I am an Episcopalian who has been wrestling with this issue for a long time. I am not gay, but the issue has vexed me for a long time.

. . .

Now, back to Jesus. Again he said nothing. And since nothing else in his Gospels suggests that he would license novel sexual practices, it is hard to imagine that he would license homosexuality as an alternative to committed life-long heterosexual marriage.

I have wrestled with this for some time. I want to liberal and “fair”. I want to see gay relationships as close to equal to straight relationships, but I can’t. Study of scripture and a reasoned understanding of history shows me this is not possible.

And so, with some reluctance (really), I conclude that the case for homosexual marriage, or any openly accepted homosexuality in Christianity is at best not proven.

I am not about to abandon my church, either for another Anglican group or for Rome. I will stay as a reasoning witness.

Hi Usbek,

Thanks for your clarification of your view. I did overlook the ending of your original post. I appreciate your desire to be as charitable as you can be without necessarily agreeing with others. You have an excellent sense of Christain love.

Each of us is imperfect in many ways, so it is prudent that we go easy on the criticism of others for their weaknesses as we have our own to contend with. But, we are also expected to encourage one another to live a better life for the Love of God. We cannot, by our silence or by passing laws, turn tolerance into approval and promotion of behavior we have strong reason to believe to be immoral.

It does create a tough problem, but for civil law to be good, it must comport well with Moral Law.

 

[exan]

How tragic. This is why I say that not matter how you feel about gay marriage, gay people in todays society need compassion, not condemnation.

But it was in fact illegal in this country for a time and unless I missed something no Christian church ever stood up and said anything. People were denied equal right to the pursuit of hapieness because they were different. That’s all gay people want to, equal opportunity to pursue a life of hapieness and fullfillment, even if their way obtaining happieness is different from yours.

Yes, and I conceded to this earlier in our conversation. I believe if the Church, as a private religious institution, should be able to practice or not practice whatever traditions or beliefs it wishes. However there needs to be a boundry between that and state law. As I said before, there are non-religious couples that chose to get married outside of any religious organization and have their marriages fully recognized by the state. Why shouldn’t gay people be allowed to do the same?

The Church has a right to set rules for its followers, and if a homosexual Catholic wants to adhere to those rules and practice celibacy, *I’m *certainly not going to stop them. However, when it comes to laws that are meant to encompass citizens of a nations from all faiths and all walks of life, the Church can not, and should not, be the deciding factor.

I never suggested the Church was intolerant. Like I said, there are certainly people within the Church who struggle to abstain from behaviors the Church leaders tell them are sinful. But there are also plenty of people outside of the Catholic Church who practice behaviors the CC views as sinful and are perfectly happy with it. They chose not to conform to Catholic teachings. The same laws that allow the CC the freedom to worship in the open also protect the rights of people who don’t believe in the Church teachings.

Awesome! I’m just in Cali for college, but I’m loving it to.

I agree that when it comes to laws that are meant to encompass citizens of a nations from all faiths and all walks of life, the Church can not, and should not, be the deciding factor. However some 85% of christians voted for proposition 8, while some 80% of ‘not christians’ voted against it. Christian people were the deciding factor in proposition 8. Problem is, wether the church ‘should’ or ‘should not’ be promoting intolerance, in practice it does. In practice the USA churches are not that tolerant. Religious ideas are pushed on not religious people.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

How should you respond to the success of the gay agenda? Should you accept the recent trend toward tolerance? Or should you side with those who exclude homosexuals with hostility and disdain?

In reality, the Bible calls for a balance between what some people think are two opposing reactions–condemnation and compassion. Really, the two together are essential elements of biblical love, and that’s something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

Homosexual advocates have been remarkably effective in selling their warped interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality. When you ask a homosexual what the Bible says about homosexuality–and many of them know–they have digested an interpretation that is not only warped, but also completely irrational. Pro-homosexual arguments from the Bible are nothing but smokescreens–as you come close, you see right through them.

God’s condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear–He opposes it in every age.

• In the patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28)
• In the Law of Moses (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13)
  18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
• In the Prophets (Ezekiel 16:46-50)
• In the New Testament (Romans 1:18-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8)
  Romans: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Why does God condemn homosexuality? Because it overturns God’s fundamental design for human relationships–a design that pictures the complementary relationship between a man and a woman as He ordained. (Genesis 2:18-25; Matthew 19:4-6; Ephesians 5:22-33).

Why, then, have homosexual interpretations of Scripture been so successful at persuading so many? Simple: people want to be convinced. Since the Bible is so clear about the issue, sinners have had to defy reason and embrace error to quiet their accusing consciences (Romans 2:14-16). As Jesus said, “Men loved the darkness rather than the Light, [because] their deeds were evil” (John 3:19-20).

As a Christian, you must not compromise what the Bible says about homosexuality–ever. No matter how much you desire to be compassionate to the homosexual, your first sympathies belong to the Lord and to the exaltation of His righteousness. Homosexuals stand in defiant rebellion against the will of their Creator who from the beginning “made them male and female” (Matthew 19:4).

Don’t allow yourself to be intimidated by homosexual advocates and their futile reasoning–their arguments are without substance. Homosexuals, and those who advocate that sin, are fundamentally committed to overturning the lordship of Christ in this world. But their rebellion is useless, for the Holy Spirit says, “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; cf. Galatians 5:19-21).

So, what is God’s response to the homosexual agenda?

Certain and final judgment. To claim anything else is to compromise the truth of God and deceive those who are perishing.

As you interact with homosexuals and their sympathizers, you must affirm the Bible’s condemnation. You are not trying to bring damnation on the head of homosexuals, you are trying to bring conviction so that they can turn from that sin and embrace the only hope of salvation for all of us sinners–and that’s through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Homosexuals need salvation. They don’t need healing–homosexuality is not a disease. They don’t need therapy–homosexuality is not a psychological condition. Homosexuals need forgiveness, because homosexuality is a sin. It is a sin for an unmarried person attracted in a lustful manner to another and acting upon it that constitutes fornication. It is the married person who has relations with another that is the adulterer and constitutes sin. It is not a matter of sexual preference it is a matter of obedience.

What is shameful is the lack of reiterating the Word of God; this is not a complicated issue, sin is sin is sin and perpetual sinful behavior is evidence of a sinner who has never received the Savior and like all sinners needs to repent and be washed by the blood of the lamb…amen.

 

[ufamtobie]

QUOTE=Usbek de Perse;5942189]Read my whole post before jumping to conclusions. I agree with you. I am not leaving one error to jump into another.

Usbek,

Oh I read your whole Post the first time

You are confused and wrong. If you want to go down in a sinking ship, that is up to you.

Ufam Tobie

 

[Veridical16]

How should you respond to the success of the gay agenda? Should you accept the recent trend toward tolerance? Or should you side with those who exclude homosexuals with hostility and disdain?

In reality, the Bible calls for a balance between what some people think are two opposing reactions–condemnation and compassion. Really, the two together are essential elements of biblical love, and that’s something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

Homosexual advocates have been remarkably effective in selling their warped interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality. When you ask a homosexual what the Bible says about homosexuality–and many of them know–they have digested an interpretation that is not only warped, but also completely irrational. Pro-homosexual arguments from the Bible are nothing but smokescreens–as you come close, you see right through them.

God’s condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear–He opposes it in every age.

• In the patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28)
• In the Law of Moses (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13)
  18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
• In the Prophets (Ezekiel 16:46-50)
• In the New Testament (Romans 1:18-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8)
  Romans: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Why does God condemn homosexuality? Because it overturns God’s fundamental design for human relationships–a design that pictures the complementary relationship between a man and a woman as He ordained. (Genesis 2:18-25; Matthew 19:4-6; Ephesians 5:22-33).

Why, then, have homosexual interpretations of Scripture been so successful at persuading so many? Simple: people want to be convinced. Since the Bible is so clear about the issue, sinners have had to defy reason and embrace error to quiet their accusing consciences (Romans 2:14-16). As Jesus said, “Men loved the darkness rather than the Light, [because] their deeds were evil” (John 3:19-20).

As a Christian, you must not compromise what the Bible says about homosexuality–ever. No matter how much you desire to be compassionate to the homosexual, your first sympathies belong to the Lord and to the exaltation of His righteousness. Homosexuals stand in defiant rebellion against the will of their Creator who from the beginning “made them male and female” (Matthew 19:4).

Don’t allow yourself to be intimidated by homosexual advocates and their futile reasoning–their arguments are without substance. Homosexuals, and those who advocate that sin, are fundamentally committed to overturning the lordship of Christ in this world. But their rebellion is useless, for the Holy Spirit says, “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; cf. Galatians 5:19-21).

So, what is God’s response to the homosexual agenda?

Certain and final judgment. To claim anything else is to compromise the truth of God and deceive those who are perishing.

As you interact with homosexuals and their sympathizers, you must affirm the Bible’s condemnation. You are not trying to bring damnation on the head of homosexuals, you are trying to bring conviction so that they can turn from that sin and embrace the only hope of salvation for all of us sinners–and that’s through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Homosexuals need salvation. They don’t need healing–homosexuality is not a disease. They don’t need therapy–homosexuality is not a psychological condition. Homosexuals need forgiveness, because homosexuality is a sin. It is a sin for an unmarried person attracted in a lustful manner to another and acting upon it that constitutes fornication. It is the married person who has relations with another that is the adulterer and constitutes sin. It is not a matter of sexual preference it is a matter of obedience.

What is shameful is the lack of reiterating the Word of God; this is not a complicated issue, sin is sin is sin and perpetual sinful behavior is evidence of a sinner who has never received the Savior and like all sinners needs to repent and be washed by the blood of the lamb…amen.

Excellent run down. Thanks this is helpful.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Timothy Piper: if you are quoting from a text, you need to give its citation.

Catholic teaching on homosexuality has not changed since the time of its founding by Jesus (see St Matthew’s Gospel). Read the Catechism first, it will save you a whole lotta typing!

Robert

 

[GratefulFred]

TIMOTHY PIPER at 191 above: VERY WELL SAID. You provided the most references to the Bible.

This Forum is a Catholic one where Catholics, other Christians, and non-Christians may comment and provide their analyses. It would be helpful if those who think that a gay life style, including gay marriage, is a first rate Christian behavior worthy of honor and respect, if they would analyze the Bible references and perhaps provide reference to noted theologians who have also analyzed the given Bible references.

Yet at the same time, we all should acknowledge that each person DOES have a role to play in God’s GOOD design for mankind. Some do have more demanding roles, but if they make their best efforts, I am sure that God will reward them more than us who have less struggles. Each of us has to determine in his own mind whether or not he is trying his best to follow Christ.

As for the laws of a society, if we want to think of ours as being Christian, we must vote, when allowed to, for the values we accept in the Bible. It is proper to say, in our Christian society that gay marriage is illegal while at the same time showing compassion for gays by providing a reasonable level of benefits.

When I do wrong, I know it is wrong either right then or later when I reflect. I do not delude myself by saying it is right for me. It may be the best I can do, but I know it does not meet the standard. And THAT awareness can create frustration for me. My faith in Christ allows me to constantly seek His forgiveness, to ask for His Grace to help me live a more faithful life, to love others as best I can in the right way, to do as much good in the world as I can. I may never succeed, but it is the struggle and constant call to God that matters.

As long as I do not brag about my wrongs trying to convince others that I am correct, as long as I acknowledge my weaknesses (we all have them, just different ones) perhaps not publically to strangers but at least to myself and God, as long as I seek God’s forgiveness and mercy and continue to live up to other standards, I do have reason to hope for eternal salvation.

But if I reject God, as He has revealed Himself in the Bible, if WHAT I WANT comes first, last and always, then my chance for eternal salvation is greatly diminished.

 

[benedictus2]

Even if you look at it through the lens of “homosexuality is sinful,” that to me is singleing out one sin over a multitude of others.

Actually not. We all recognize that there are a multitude of sins out there. What we are debating here is what some (including you) seem to be proposing i.e. homosexual marriage is acceptable. To Christians, it is not acceptable. Gay marriage is a contradiction in terms.

 

[benedictus2]

Neither is discrimination, but plenty of Christians do that to.

Let’s simplify the matter. Plenty of Christians have committed murder. Does that mean we should make murder legal?

Plenty of Christians lie, cheat, commit adultery. Should we declare these sins no longer an abomination and so now consider this completely in accord with Christian precepts?

Practice will always fall short of the Christian ideal but Christian standards should never be lowered to Christian practice. We do not have the authority to do that because those standards were set by God Himself.